Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!
Replies
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I love how everyone is saying its about a childs imagination, and probably will be buying them a ps4 or other electronic play system for xmas. If you want a child to have a child-like imagination, you dont have to do it with a lie you can just give them a box and tell them to play outside. We didnt celebrate xmas and I had a wild imagination as a child, but I was only allowed to play the nintendo for a hour, and my bro sis and I had to split the hour umongst us. Since I was the baby I got a good 5-10 mins worth of play time haha
Oh you poor thing. Only an hour on the Nintendo? We didn't own video games (ever) or get basic cable on our single 20 inch tv until I was about 14. Do I get a prize?
We had a 13-inch. black and white TV until I was in eigth grade and no cable until I was an adult. And no video games even now (except that unused Wii I mentioned earlier, but we've only had that a couple months).
I win. :-)0 -
its called fiction myth would be redundant.
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.0 -
We chose to skip them entirely. I think equating Christmas with receiving presents is absurd.
It isn't about receiving presents. It's about giving presents.
It can be about giving without "presents" being involved. You can give of your time, your talents, your attention, etc.0 -
You had a crappy childhood so no one else should have any fun?
speaking as a child who was "lied to" about Santa... it didn't make me mistrust my parents or any of those things mentioned in the thread. I could understand it was just a bit of fun that parents tell their kids. Yes even at age 6 I could understand that, without adults explaining it to me.
For me, it was extremely painful to realize Santa wasn't true. I had a really, really ****ty childhood, and god, jesus, nor the church members I went to for help, bothered to help me. My last ditch string of hope was that santa was real, and he could see that I was a nice kid who didn't deserve the hellish life I had. When I realized that santa really wasn't real, it really sunk in that I was completely alone in the world, that no one was going to help me, that no one was going to come save me.
I felt the same thing when I finally rejected the christian myth as well.
So, does it color my perception on whether we should perpetuate the lie? Yes, it does. It also makes me feel that false hope, not matter how well-intentioned, is detrimental. Believing in any of these false gods is detrimental, because NOTHING supernatural is going to come to your aid, no matter how good of a person you are. If you don't expect a god to rescue you, you can devote your time to actually making the world a better place.0 -
Who gives a f*@k???? Each to their own. Do what you want to do.
QFT
Stop attacking people for their beliefs, and we won't feel the need to attack back in defense of our choices!
LOL. What the pro-santa people have been saying is that Santa is good for the imagination and that it's fun fairytale and to lighten up a bit.
What you have been saying is this:
1. Parents who let their kids believe in Santa are liars and inherently dishonest.
2. Children who celebrate with Santa are bound to be selfish, spoiled brats who only want gifts.
And I'm not even going to get into your marriage insinuation which was insulting, rude and completely uncalled for.
What sounds more like an attack to you?
You have the right to your opinion. That right stops where the rights of others begins. :flowerforyou:
I'm pretty sure I didn't attack anyone, insult anyone, or tell anyone how to live their lives.
Not that I've noticed, so why lump yourself in with Annoying Atheists if you are respectful of the beliefs of others?
Perhaps the problem you are having is that you are so quick to respond and "be right" that you aren't even really reading what people are posting. You've got the wrong person here. I haven't said a word about Atheists, Christians, Pagans, etc. nor would I.0 -
So "fiction" must be in the title of every fictional book and movie?
its called fiction myth would be redundant.
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.0 -
Currently reading them Peter Pan, 1 chapter a night before bed.Not going to join this ridiculous debate besides providing these quotes.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Albert Einstein
'If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales.'
—Albert Einstein
"I *do* believe in fairies!"
We read that when they were little. I do miss those days!0 -
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.
That's just silly.0 -
So my oldest is 3 and asked me about Santa and Christmas. I told him the basic crap that everyone spews and I hate myself for it! Wh does he need to believe in Santa just to have it crushed later in life? Why set them up for disappointment later in life. Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?
Thoughts please.
Dumbest question ever. It's not a lie, it's a fantasy. It's about letting children still believe that there is something good and mystical in the world. They have the rest of their lives to realize that everything they come in contact with has strings attached and nothing is ever free. You have an extremely cynical way of looking at it but go ahead and ruin their fantasy. While you're at it don't ever read a fiction book because those are also set in fantasy.
Say goodbye to Dr. Suess books, The Giving Tree, The Farting Dog, The BCS, an intelligent liberal and the tooth fairy. It's all fantasy world.0 -
Why is it a "lie"? You are letting your child believe in something magical! That's the problem with this world. We don't let kids be kids anymore! My heart breaks knowing that I only have a few years left of my children believing in Santa. They believe in Santa for like 10% of their life--the rest is spent knowing the realities of the world they live in. Dealth, cruelty, poverty, war. Let them be kids! They will not resent you for it! They will hopefully get excited again as adults to share the Santa tradition with their children. I know having kids and playing Santa has brought the magic of Christmas back for me! I am just as excited Christmas morning and they are. You seem to be worried that they will mistrust you in the end. Personally, I think they will have more issues being known as the kids who told all the other kids there was no Santa.0
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Besides, the only thing Atheists believe in is being sanctimoniously condescending.Who gives a f*@k???? Each to their own. Do what you want to do.
QFT
Stop attacking people for their beliefs, and we won't feel the need to attack back in defense of our choices!
LOL. What the pro-santa people have been saying is that Santa is good for the imagination and that it's fun fairytale and to lighten up a bit.
What you have been saying is this:
1. Parents who let their kids believe in Santa are liars and inherently dishonest.
2. Children who celebrate with Santa are bound to be selfish, spoiled brats who only want gifts.
And I'm not even going to get into your marriage insinuation which was insulting, rude and completely uncalled for.
What sounds more like an attack to you?
You have the right to your opinion. That right stops where the rights of others begins. :flowerforyou:
I'm pretty sure I didn't attack anyone, insult anyone, or tell anyone how to live their lives.
Not that I've noticed, so why lump yourself in with Annoying Atheists if you are respectful of the beliefs of others?
Perhaps the problem you are having is that you are so quick to respond and "be right" that you aren't even really reading what people are posting. You've got the wrong person here. I haven't said a word about Atheists, Christians, Pagans, etc. nor would I.0 -
No more silly than saying "the Santa Myth."
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.
That's just silly.
Why is it necessary to call it that? Because she's purposely being insulting and condescending.0 -
My parents told my brother and I at a very young age. They told us not to ruin it for our friends and classmates, but explained the real meaning of Christmas. I don't feel like I missed out on anything. We still celebrated and had traditions. I still had a fantastic imagination. I don't think there is harm in either way.
This... make sure if your son knows that Santa isn't real that he doesn't ruin it for other kids whose parents enjoy the tradition of Santa. I like the tradtiion and if someone told my son it was a lie, I'd be livid!0 -
You had a crappy childhood so no one else should have any fun?
speaking as a child who was "lied to" about Santa... it didn't make me mistrust my parents or any of those things mentioned in the thread. I could understand it was just a bit of fun that parents tell their kids. Yes even at age 6 I could understand that, without adults explaining it to me.
For me, it was extremely painful to realize Santa wasn't true. I had a really, really ****ty childhood, and god, jesus, nor the church members I went to for help, bothered to help me. My last ditch string of hope was that santa was real, and he could see that I was a nice kid who didn't deserve the hellish life I had. When I realized that santa really wasn't real, it really sunk in that I was completely alone in the world, that no one was going to help me, that no one was going to come save me.
I felt the same thing when I finally rejected the christian myth as well.
So, does it color my perception on whether we should perpetuate the lie? Yes, it does. It also makes me feel that false hope, not matter how well-intentioned, is detrimental. Believing in any of these false gods is detrimental, because NOTHING supernatural is going to come to your aid, no matter how good of a person you are. If you don't expect a god to rescue you, you can devote your time to actually making the world a better place.
No, but it is a helpful perspective and that is what I asked for, perspective.0 -
You had a crappy childhood so no one else should have any fun?
speaking as a child who was "lied to" about Santa... it didn't make me mistrust my parents or any of those things mentioned in the thread. I could understand it was just a bit of fun that parents tell their kids. Yes even at age 6 I could understand that, without adults explaining it to me.
For me, it was extremely painful to realize Santa wasn't true. I had a really, really ****ty childhood, and god, jesus, nor the church members I went to for help, bothered to help me. My last ditch string of hope was that santa was real, and he could see that I was a nice kid who didn't deserve the hellish life I had. When I realized that santa really wasn't real, it really sunk in that I was completely alone in the world, that no one was going to help me, that no one was going to come save me.
I felt the same thing when I finally rejected the christian myth as well.
So, does it color my perception on whether we should perpetuate the lie? Yes, it does. It also makes me feel that false hope, not matter how well-intentioned, is detrimental. Believing in any of these false gods is detrimental, because NOTHING supernatural is going to come to your aid, no matter how good of a person you are. If you don't expect a god to rescue you, you can devote your time to actually making the world a better place.
Yes, that is exactly what I said. You get an A+ for reading comprehension.0 -
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.
Not all fiction rises to the level of myth.0 -
I believed the same way with my kids until my daughter burst into tears at age 3 and said "why does Santa not like us and skip our house?" You can't avoid the media and those around that insist on telling your kids that He is real.0
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Not going to join this ridiculous debate besides providing these quotes.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Albert Einstein
'If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales.'
—Albert Einstein
He also said,
"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." ― Albert Einstein
:happy:0 -
Grow up.
You had a crappy childhood so no one else should have any fun?
speaking as a child who was "lied to" about Santa... it didn't make me mistrust my parents or any of those things mentioned in the thread. I could understand it was just a bit of fun that parents tell their kids. Yes even at age 6 I could understand that, without adults explaining it to me.
For me, it was extremely painful to realize Santa wasn't true. I had a really, really ****ty childhood, and god, jesus, nor the church members I went to for help, bothered to help me. My last ditch string of hope was that santa was real, and he could see that I was a nice kid who didn't deserve the hellish life I had. When I realized that santa really wasn't real, it really sunk in that I was completely alone in the world, that no one was going to help me, that no one was going to come save me.
I felt the same thing when I finally rejected the christian myth as well.
So, does it color my perception on whether we should perpetuate the lie? Yes, it does. It also makes me feel that false hope, not matter how well-intentioned, is detrimental. Believing in any of these false gods is detrimental, because NOTHING supernatural is going to come to your aid, no matter how good of a person you are. If you don't expect a god to rescue you, you can devote your time to actually making the world a better place.
Yes, that is exactly what I said. You get an A+ for reading comprehension.0 -
Just tell him the truth. If I was a parent, I probably wouldn't do the whole Santa thing. I would tell them it's a story. Everyone has their own choice.
Liberal.0 -
It is filed in that section so there is no confusion.
So "fiction" must be in the title of every fictional book and movie?
its called fiction myth would be redundant.
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.0 -
Oh come on now. There are many different parenting styles. I learned this when I taught parenting classes. *stop laughing*
I learned so much from those parents. What a blessing!
I think that sometimes we (probably meaning me) tend to over think our (my) decisions when it comes to parenting. I worried over the years while raising my children over just about every thing. Heck, I worry about my grandchildren, too.
One of my points is that we all want the best for our children. We try our best in making decisions about our parenting choices. There are pros and cons to all of our decisions. Sometimes we have to trust the process and hope for the best.0 -
Yes. The innocence of youth is gone earlier and earlier every year. Why steal the magic from them any earlier than necessary?Am I a bad mom because I don't want to perpetuate this myth?
Thoughts please.0 -
Who gives a f*@k???? Each to their own. Do what you want to do.
QFT
Stop attacking people for their beliefs, and we won't feel the need to attack back in defense of our choices!
LOL. What the pro-santa people have been saying is that Santa is good for the imagination and that it's fun fairytale and to lighten up a bit.
What you have been saying is this:
1. Parents who let their kids believe in Santa are liars and inherently dishonest.
2. Children who celebrate with Santa are bound to be selfish, spoiled brats who only want gifts.
And I'm not even going to get into your marriage insinuation which was insulting, rude and completely uncalled for.
What sounds more like an attack to you?
You have the right to your opinion. That right stops where the rights of others begins. :flowerforyou:
I'm pretty sure I didn't attack anyone, insult anyone, or tell anyone how to live their lives.
Not that I've noticed, so why lump yourself in with Annoying Atheists if you are respectful of the beliefs of others?
Perhaps the problem you are having is that you are so quick to respond and "be right" that you aren't even really reading what people are posting. You've got the wrong person here. I haven't said a word about Atheists, Christians, Pagans, etc. nor would I.
No, I was comparing my actions in this thread to that of an annoying atheist, not a respectful atheist, but an annoying one. I know full well that I have been annoying in this thread. :smokin: 0 -
I love how everyone is saying its about a childs imagination, and probably will be buying them a ps4 or other electronic play system for xmas. If you want a child to have a child-like imagination, you dont have to do it with a lie you can just give them a box and tell them to play outside. We didnt celebrate xmas and I had a wild imagination as a child, but I was only allowed to play the nintendo for a hour, and my bro sis and I had to split the hour umongst us. Since I was the baby I got a good 5-10 mins worth of play time haha
Oh you poor thing. Only an hour on the Nintendo? We didn't own video games (ever) or get basic cable on our single 20 inch tv until I was about 14. Do I get a prize?
We had a 13-inch. black and white TV until I was in eigth grade and no cable until I was an adult. And no video games even now (except that unused Wii I mentioned earlier, but we've only had that a couple months).
I win. :-)
*Gives you the prize*. I have the deluxe sports bundle for my 42" now, and a Wii and Xbox.0 -
What if it's misplaced within the book store or library? What if someone accidentally finds a copy of Lolita in the non-fiction section?
It is filed in that section so there is no confusion.
So "fiction" must be in the title of every fictional book and movie?
its called fiction myth would be redundant.
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.0 -
I wasn't disappointed when I learned Santa wasn't real....my daughter is learning that truth now and she isn't disappointed either....
it came naturally...just a sudden realisation that the magic wasn't as literal as I thought it was when I was younger...
he believes in magic now...why rip that from him....0 -
Besides, the only thing Atheists believe in is being sanctimoniously condescending.
Perhaps the problem you are having is that you are so quick to respond and "be right" that you aren't even really reading what people are posting. You've got the wrong person here. I haven't said a word about Atheists, Christians, Pagans, etc. nor would I.
:laugh:0 -
Where's the kitteh gifs when you need them? I think the discussion part of this thread is done!
Edited for grammar.0 -
No more silly than saying "the Santa Myth."
And calling it "the Santa Myth" is incredibly insulting and condescending.
It is a myth. There's no way around it. No one, except for children who haven't figured out that they are being lied to, believe it. Everyone of an age of reason knows that it is false. That is a myth.
Then you should put "myth" at the end of every fictional book and movie title.
That's just silly.
Why is it necessary to call it that? Because she's purposely being insulting and condescending.
Because Santa is being taught as true, not as fiction. This entire thread is about whether children should be told that Santa is REAL, or not.
A lot of things that are parodies are labeled as parodies, movies have disclaimers that say the events are fictional and any similarities to persons living or dead is unintentional, and the fiction section of the book store is labeled as fiction.
Children are told, but adults they trust, that santa is real. They lack the cognitive development to discern the lie, until they are several years older. It is a lie.0
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