Holy sexism, batman!

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  • tembii
    tembii Posts: 34
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    Super sorry to hear about all of that, dear, I know the feelings, cat calls and unwanted looks, slamming on the "close door" button in the elevator. It makes you feel sick :"/
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    whatever happened to people just being plain old A-holes….why do we have to extrapolate it to sexism, racism, or whatever the flavor of the day is???

    the dudes were a bunch of D-bags…it happens, they are out there, deal with it...
  • Myhaloslipped
    Myhaloslipped Posts: 4,317 Member
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    Stupid things like catcalls directed at a stranger remind me of Seinfeld's standup routine when he was talking about why guys resort to idiotic moves to pick up women, such as honking a car horn at them. "This man is completely out of ideas!" lol.
  • ladymiseryali
    ladymiseryali Posts: 2,555 Member
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    That's awful! Every saturday when I walk to work, the same cabbie tries to pick me up. He's a creepy dude and I hate that I'm practically being harassed by him just because I have a uterus. If I wanted a cab, I would call for one like a normal person!
  • sjohnny
    sjohnny Posts: 56,142 Member
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    The fact that a woman can't go about her business in the evening without feeling threatened is a sign that sexism is alive and well. Why would she feel threatened by guys 'just looking' or 'admiring' if there weren't too many men with a habit of harassing and assaulting women? Look up the figures for the proportion of women who have been assaulted anywhere in the world. Of course if we were being entirely logical, the fear should be directed more towards acquaintances, but that's not the way fear and intimidation work.

    How come everyone is suggesting self-defence classes/body-language cues for the woman or trying to downplay the guys' demeanour without addressing how to make men socialise with women appropriately without making them fearful for their safety?

    It infuriates me that this woman had to tell her mother and boyfriend where she was going just to leave her house. You may claim that she is being oversensitive or fearful but we all know that her reactions are entirely reasonable.

    How come no one seems to be saying of the men above: if you'admire' a woman, don't choose one trying to get into her house in the evening in a quiet stairwell, don't cat call, and don't stand there gawking/drooling openly as how is she supposed to work out what your next move may be?

    For what it is worth, I am rarely the subject of this kind of behaviour and the few times it has happened I have rarely felt worried about my safety because I am more than capable of looking after myself and handling idiots. Nevertheless, it is still nauseating, degrading and disturbing. There is no sense of self-esteem to be gained from being viewed/treated like a piece of meat.

    No one suggested self defense classes. I recommend to EVERYONE that they be situationally aware and walk with confidence. I've taken reports from assault and theft/robbery victims of both sexes that couldn't describe the perpetrator because they were walking around staring at their shoes.

    No one has given the pig-acting men any advice because they aren't here posting a thread that says "Hey, guise, how come the drunk chick I catcalled didn't come jump in my lap?" We can't give the OP advice as to how others should act. The fact is people will act the way they will act. Sometimes the way they act is crappy. We can't stop that. We can control how we comport ourselves.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    I can understand the cat calls being annoying. The guys that catcalled didn't have the best execution. Catcalling doesn't work. Also, OP was not specific as to what the catcalls actually were. That's key information.

    Also, two guys walked past her. Many times two guys have walked past me and I've felt weird. This is not a big deal.

    I would not mind a night that involved some ladies in the immediate vicinity of my place leering at me, so long as they are good looking ladies.
    sexist!!!
  • WhoHa42
    WhoHa42 Posts: 1,270 Member
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    So... guys hit on you and 2 drunk guys looked at you? Don't see how that's sexism at all lol people need to chill out.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    The fact that a woman can't go about her business in the evening without feeling threatened is a sign that sexism is alive and well. Why would she feel threatened by guys 'just looking' or 'admiring' if there weren't too many men with a habit of harassing and assaulting women? Look up the figures for the proportion of women who have been assaulted anywhere in the world. Of course if we were being entirely logical, the fear should be directed more towards acquaintances, but that's not the way fear and intimidation work.

    How come everyone is suggesting self-defence classes/body-language cues for the woman or trying to downplay the guys' demeanour without addressing how to make men socialise with women appropriately without making them fearful for their safety?

    It infuriates me that this woman had to tell her mother and boyfriend where she was going just to leave her house. You may claim that she is being oversensitive or fearful but we all know that her reactions are entirely reasonable.

    How come no one seems to be saying of the men above: if you'admire' a woman, don't choose one trying to get into her house in the evening in a quiet stairwell, don't cat call, and don't stand there gawking/drooling openly as how is she supposed to work out what your next move may be?

    For what it is worth, I am rarely the subject of this kind of behaviour and the few times it has happened I have rarely felt worried about my safety because I am more than capable of looking after myself and handling idiots. Nevertheless, it is still nauseating, degrading and disturbing. There is no sense of self-esteem to be gained from being viewed/treated like a piece of meat.

    so people can't just be plain old D-bags anymore…?
  • BigCed77024
    BigCed77024 Posts: 1,115 Member
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    Unless you were applying for a job, I fail to see how sexism was involved. just some horny jerks who made you uncomfortable.

    However it is unfortunate that you were being stared at like that.

    Some guys think that if they stare hard enough you will just fall heads over heels with them.

    Unfortunately bad things happen to women especially when they are walking alone.

    You may wanna consider bringing your boyfriend next time or at least some mace, especially if the way people are looking at you bothers you.

    I am not saying you are paranoid it's just better to be safe than sorry!
  • NRSPAM
    NRSPAM Posts: 961 Member
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    They were just checking you out. I understand walking around, probably late at night, was probably scary. If I see creepy guys when I'm walking alone, (usually on my way from my car to work, which is a long walk) I just give this look like, go ahead and try something, I'll kick ur *kitten*!!! :wink:
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
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    Feeling threatened is subjective. Was it not sexist of her to assume the worst about two guys who were standing outside of a building, simply because they were male? She admitted that she changed her demeanor before they ever engaged her in any way. Now, do I necessarily blame her for doing that or think it is ok that they made rude comments? Absolutely not. But she made a choice and changed her actions based on gender, which is sexist. She probably wouldn't have done that if it were two women.

    The guys coming out of the elevator were drunk, and didn't do anything but walk by and look at her. They didn't engage her in any way. Did they look at her inappropriately, or did she just feel that way because of the previous encounter? If she could see they were drunk, who knows what they were thinking. They could have been trying to figure out if they knew her. Not sexism.

    I'd also like to point out that she herself had been drinking, which could have affected her perception of the situations. Would the guys still have yelled something? Probably; some people are just jerks. I'm sorry that happened to the OP, I've been there myself. I've even crossed the street to avoid walking past a group of guys and had them yell at me for doing so, but hey, I made a choice based on my comfort level and my own sexist biases.


    Yeah - this was pretty much my reaction to this.
  • MM_1982
    MM_1982 Posts: 374
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    How is this sexism?

    Maybe it's slight harassment, but I don't see any sexism.
  • 1PatientBear
    1PatientBear Posts: 2,089 Member
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    whatever happened to people just being plain old A-holes….why do we have to extrapolate it to sexism, racism, or whatever the flavor of the day is???

    the dudes were a bunch of D-bags…it happens, they are out there, deal with it...

    This. Not everything is an "-ism." To quote a philosopher from the 80's:

    Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.

    As for what happened to the OP, that ain't sexism and that ain't harassment. That's just a couple of guys being jackholes.
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    Assuming every male wants to attack you is sexist.
  • amyfullbrook
    amyfullbrook Posts: 97 Member
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    I wouldn't particulaly call this sexism...even though I do believe sexism still exists in the world. I'd call this plain old harrassment, men being pigs and thinking they are 'hard' by making a woman feel uncomfortable.
    Hope you are ok, it's not nice especially when you are on your own or it's dark outside.
    I would always recommend walking straight, shoulders back, head up and make direct eye contact. This way they know they are not intimidating you...in my experience they either look away with an embarrassed expression or just smile and walk off.
    :)
  • W0rthless_Her0
    W0rthless_Her0 Posts: 121
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    Earlier tonight: I've had a few glasses of wine.

    Call me crazy but different people have different perception of what goes on in the world around them even without alcohol. (Theres always multiple sides to a story).
    If you can't feel safe walking around your own home, there's a problem.

    Normally in a community people learn to recognize each other from daily comings and goings. Its not good that you dont really feel safe in a place you live. If you cant feel safe there, then where can you feel safe? In addition, maybe the feelings you have about living in your particular area became more apparent after having a couple of drinks? Is there area you live in bad?
  • MyChocolateDiet
    MyChocolateDiet Posts: 22,281 Member
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    Since this is a motivation and support thread I realize my responses to this post are limited to motivation and support:grumble: .

    I too am motivated by wine. :drinker: I support your decision to close the doors on those guys. :flowerforyou: That's all I am allowed to say within the parameters of this thread as per where it's posted. I have a LOT more to say though, but I will refrain. I would however like to counsel OP to tell her story to BF and mama and heed any advice they have to give, no matter how sexist or controlling it may seem on the face of it. :huh: Also there has been some very good non-victimey advice given here which I support not as a guarantee, but more as just a strengthening of your odds not to become a statistic.
  • suelegal
    suelegal Posts: 1,282 Member
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    The fact that a woman can't go about her business in the evening without feeling threatened is a sign that sexism is alive and well. Why would she feel threatened by guys 'just looking' or 'admiring' if there weren't too many men with a habit of harassing and assaulting women? Look up the figures for the proportion of women who have been assaulted anywhere in the world. Of course if we were being entirely logical, the fear should be directed more towards acquaintances, but that's not the way fear and intimidation work.

    How come everyone is suggesting self-defence classes/body-language cues for the woman or trying to downplay the guys' demeanour without addressing how to make men socialise with women appropriately without making them fearful for their safety?

    It infuriates me that this woman had to tell her mother and boyfriend where she was going just to leave her house. You may claim that she is being oversensitive or fearful but we all know that her reactions are entirely reasonable.

    How come no one seems to be saying of the men above: if you'admire' a woman, don't choose one trying to get into her house in the evening in a quiet stairwell, don't cat call, and don't stand there gawking/drooling openly as how is she supposed to work out what your next move may be?

    For what it is worth, I am rarely the subject of this kind of behaviour and the few times it has happened I have rarely felt worried about my safety because I am more than capable of looking after myself and handling idiots. Nevertheless, it is still nauseating, degrading and disturbing. There is no sense of self-esteem to be gained from being viewed/treated like a piece of meat.

    ^this!
  • MyChocolateDiet
    MyChocolateDiet Posts: 22,281 Member
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    Assuming every male wants to attack you is sexist.
    Ummm, I like yer rubik's cubes...:wink:
  • ianthamfyolek
    ianthamfyolek Posts: 21 Member
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    And this is why I'm a feminist.

    Sorry this had to happen to you - I know it sucks.
    Let's be honest; you don't have to be at your goal weight to get attention. You don't need to have a Baywatch bod to turn heads. You don't even need to be looking for attention to get it.

    Earlier tonight: I've had a few glasses of wine. I head to the liquor store 10 mins away at 9:00 pm, alone, but made sure my mum and boyfriend knew what was up just in case. Everything's great until I get home, and on the walkway to the building is some guy. No big deal. Across the way on the grass is another guy. Now it's kind of a deal. But still, head down, keep marching, and don't look like you're asking for trouble, right? Wrong. Catcalling. Not flattering. I never pull the door closed on anyone, but tonight I made an exception, both for the outer and inner (key access only) doors. Once I'm in, two inebriated guys come out of the elevator. No catcalls, just uncomfortable looks. You know the kind when you're coveting a fancy dress or plate of food? Not the look anyone is supposed to give a stranger. I walk in a wide arc around, then get in the elevator and lay on the "close doors" button, just in case. My heart doesn't stop pounding until I'm behind the locked door of my apartment, and even then, I keep an ear out just in case anyone saw my floor from the lobby.

    Say what you want. Say sexism is a myth, and feminism is redundant because women have no reason to feel marginalized. If you can't feel safe walking around your own home, there's a problem.

    Not looking for pity or attention, just a little positive support.

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