Ketosis/High Fat Diet

I personally don't know a single low carber or keto that measures their calories. That's including some trainers I know who are not looking very sporty at all. I know one trainer that has started fitting since low carbing. My experience. My opinion.

I'm so glad I don't have to 'survive Christmas' and avoid social events any more!

We don't know each other personally, but I count calories along with my carbs. Many of us do. It's still about eating at a deficit.

I didn't "survive" the holidays, and I don't avoid social events. There is always something to eat that is friendly to my eating preferences.

I still count calories. I started out on Myfitnesspal counting calories. And yes, I was losing weight doing that. A little over a month ago I experimented with low carb for a week (I was in a weight loss competition, gained a lot of water weight right before weigh in due to excess salt, and needed to lose it fast) and decided to keep the low carb.

I discovered that I don't stay as hungry, I don't crave sugar/carbs, and I generally feel better when eating low carb. Not sure if I've ever got to the keto stage, but I'm happy with what I have right now. Still losing weight, not losing it any faster with the low carb diet than I did with the low calorie, but I feel better. I had a couple of cheats over the last month, and I can tell the difference.

Will I keep it off? Don't know. But over the last 10 years, the low calorie diets haven't worked for me either as a long term solution. I lose some, and then I gain it back. So what do I have to lose by trying low carb?

You'll gain some water weight once you carb up but educated folks know that gaining water weight is not a big deal. Whether you gain any fat after you reintroduce carbs depends entirely on how many calories you eat.

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

For my medical condition I have to do low carb.... But for the one I commented on that tried it and stopped because it caused bad breath I would suggest something else but I figured I do low carb and don't have bad breath so maybe it was a hygiene issue.

Congratulations on your loss to date - looking good. So you have 10 more pounds to go.
With your usual calorie amount of 1200/1400 your grams of carbs are already in the low range?

Just try a ketosis diet and see how it goes for you.
Maybe adding some slow cardio as well.

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

Do you know that more people tend to not stick with low carb as opposed to any other diet/lifestyle change? I've just never seen anything that showed people were less likely to stick with it in relation to any other diet/lifestyle choice. If you know of any, I'd love to check it out.

The research suggests that low-carb attrition/compliance rates are comparable to other diets - http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

Note specifically the section entitled "How Many People Made It To The End?" with the following averages for the 19 of the 23 studies referenced that reported compliance:

Average for the low-carb groups: 79,51%
Average for the low-fat groups: 77,72%

Even if you want to say that 2% difference is statistically insignificant, that still means that low carb diets have, on average, the same compliance rates as other diets.

Even the American Heart Association acknowledges that attrition rates of low carb diets are comparable to that of other diets:

In trials that investigated the effectiveness of low-carbohydrate diets in inducing weight loss, the attrition rates ranged between 24% and 39%. In most of these trials, comparable attrition rates were observed in subjects assigned to a low-fat diet.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/114/9/961.full

And to the comment nested in the quotes above, regarding "eat how you're going to eat the rest of your life" -- not everyone who follows a low-carb/high-fat diet are doing it with the intention of only being on it for as long as it takes to lose the weight. Many do it for other health reasons, including realizing that the way they were eating before was working against them (such as keeping their insulin levels elevated beyond the point that their body could tolerate) and even making them sick. Low-carb/high-fat is the way they intend to eat the rest of their lives.

Is bad breath really a reason to abandon a lifestyle? ... Brush your teeth and invest in some mouthwash.....

Let me see.... Bad breath or dying because I am 150 pounds overweight with a list a mile long of medical conditions some of which can be controlled with low carb.... Um, think ill ill just stock up on the Colgate....Colgate is much cheaper than a coffin.

Haha! Lol. You can still lose weight eating all the foods though. Just in moderation.

Low carb isn't the only option. People tend to not stick with it long term. It's better to eat how you're going to eat for the rest of your life, just at a slight deficit.

For my medical condition I have to do low carb.... But for the one I commented on that tried it and stopped because it caused bad breath I would suggest something else but I figured I do low carb and don't have bad breath so maybe it was a hygiene issue.

Well then you're a rare low carber then. I'm only echoing what I've read over and over in forums I used to belong to when I low carbed, it's quite common, and keto breath is sooooo weird.

I'm sorry you have a medical condition that prevents you eating carbs. That's not easy to live with. But you've done well so far and if it works for you over a lifetime then go for it. I did about 7 years of it all and all. I could never go back because I can't adhere to it for more than a year or so before the cravings get out of hand.

Thank you. Yes so far is is helping my symptoms tremendously. I find it easy to stick with... Thank goodness I've always been more of a carnivore.

And it DOES cause a change in the way your breath smells.. It smells almost sweet but not terrible bad...

I wonder why vegans and vegetarians don't attract this much vehemence on MFP, restrictive as they are with their choices.

Or the entire societies that, by virtue of history and food availability, don't have access to loads of food groups.

You can cut out meat and it's perfectly socially acceptable but you cut out bread and sugar and all hell breaks lose..

Vegan and vegetarian threads do attract vehemence; many just choose to post in the groups to avoid it. Depending on where you live, it may be more socially acceptable, but that can be true of any way of eating. "Socially accepted" is the way I would view veganism at all.

Keto and paleo have their detractors like anyone else. You just notice it more when it bugs you.

I'm not sure what that means at all... I think there are some words missing there so I'm not sure what to take from that.

But both of my cousins "quit meat" this month just because it makes them feel icky.... And no one is trying to shove a steak in their face

But I am insulin resistant so I quit sugar and everyone is trying to shove cakes and candies in my face.....and mine is medically necessary and not because I don't feel like eating it....

Well if that's what you were trying to say... Like I said a few words were missing from your original post because thats not what you said at all...

But yes please keep telling me how I'm wrong for what I've viewed first hand because that is my favorite... Except I won't know you are because I am blocking you. Continue spreading your sunshine somewhere else other than to me.

When they lose weight some of those low carbers may be able to increase their carbs, improve their insulin sensitivity. May not need to be a low carber for life.

Improve their insulin sensitivity?

Please explain how that works.

The primary cause of insulin-resistance in obese people with Type II diabetes or Metabolic syndrome is visceral bodyfat. It's been scientifically documented for decades now that decrease in visceral bodyfat - the fat in/around the internal organs - improves insulin-sensitivity, whereas decreases in subcutaneous bodyfat do not show the same significant trend.

Many people that lose weight to healthy levels are able to improve insulin-sensitivity to a point where they have excellent glycemic control without insulin.

Unfortunately those that have lost function with pancreatic beta-cells don't regain the same sensitivity, and some need to stay low-carb (even if they've had successful weight loss and continue with regular exercise).

That's my situation - my pancreas secretes virtually no insulin. My insulin-sensitivity, however, is excellent - I just don't produce it.

Luckily people like me are the exception and the vast majority of people that: 1) catch it in time; 2) reach a healthy weight, and; 3) continue to exercise regularly can completely reverse their symptoms - mostly because of the improvement in insulin-sensitivity.

FYI -It's a complete fallacy that type II diabetes is always degenerative. It doesn't have to be. It's only degenerative if you fail to control it. Unfortunately 90% of diabetics fail - and the reason they fail is they follow a diet that's simply too high in carbohydrate. The dietary advice given by most dieticians, the ADA/CDA (American and Canadian Diabetes Associations) is simply bad advice (it's more politically-motivated than health-motivated), and will keep most diabetics on medications for the rest of their lives.

The best advice anyone with diabetes, pre-diabetes and/or metabolic syndrome can get is to educate themselves over at BloodSugar101 - http://www.bloodsugar101.com

Your post wasn't clear "increasing carbs, increasing insulin sensitivity"

I think what susie is saying is that AFTER the loss of the visceral fat they may be able to increase carbohydrate intake BECAUSE of increased insulin sensitivity (as a result of the visceral body fat loss).

At least I hope so, because increasing carbohydrate doesn't increase insulin sensitivity

In my case, I spent almost a full year under 30g of carbohydrate. Now I eat anywhere from 30 to 120 depending on the day, and have absolutely excellent insulin-sensitivity and glycemic control.

that's what I meant

... You can also lose muscle while gaining weight in the beginning because protein stores can be converted to glucose.

Unless you're starving yourself this should never happen. Ketosis in general is muscle-sparing. As is dietary protein.

Something like 10% of women in the US have a condition that would benefit from low carb, that's hardly rare. Uncommon, not rare. It's perfectly easy to live with low carb if you can eat ribeyes. It makes no sense when people say that it's hard because it's not unless you're a marathon runner.

Actually, unless at a world-class / elite level, you can eat low-carb and marathon quite easily - without having to suck back sugary drinks, gels, bars, etc. while you do it.

That's the beauty of keto-adaptation.

For the world-class athlete it's a different situation - they're pushing a performance threshold that requires an almost anaerobic effort - as such it's unlikely they can generate enough ATP for cellular respiration while keto-adapted and low-carb.

For the 99.999% of the rest of us, marathons on low-carb are quite do-able.