How to tell vegan friends to back off?!

"In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients."

I guess you have a reading comprehension problem. See those first three words? They mean something. And no I don't think they are wrong, I will take the research of a well known institution over that of the "vegandude"

In case your memory is bad as your reading comprehension you originally asserted that

"Don't preach at me about plant proteins. They are not sufficient."

This is what I called you out on and you are wrong as I have shown so get over it.

B12 isn't a protein.... From one of your links

Protein: You don't need to eat foods from animals to have enough protein in your diet. Plant proteins alone can provide enough of the essential and non-essential amino acids, as long as sources of dietary protein are varied and caloric intake is high enough to meet energy needs.

Sigh, you originally claimed vegans didn't get enough protein. You are wrong and now trying to move the goal posts. I said nothing about b12 nor did you unless as I said you are now claiming b12 is a protein. Your initial claim was that plant proteins are 'not sufficient' was bollocks get over it.

Seriously? The same way I tell my omnivore friends to back off. Commenting on someone else's food choices is rude, no matter what philosophy you are pushing. Repeat after me:

"I won't comment on your food choices, and I need you not to comment on mine."
:blushing:
Of course, that means that you can't criticize them for being vegan, either. Given that you started a thread just to complain about them, that may be difficult.

Alternatively, just tell them you're a clean eater...that should send the discussion swiftly into another direction....

I have to say though, the whole "we're meant to eat meat" thing is annoying. "Meant to" by who? God? Will we die without it? Am I a zombie at this point?

Physiologically, it's hard to argue that human beings are "meant to be" omnivores. Most herbivores have eyes set on the sides of their heads, to see predators coming. They generally have vision up to about 270 degrees or so. Human beings have eyes set on the front of their heads, like predatory species, not prey species.

Human beings primarily have teeth that cut and tear. Our grinding teeth are limited and set at the back of our mouths. Other omnivorous or carnivorous animals have such teeth. Herbivorous mammals have tearing teeth at the font of their mouths and grinding teeth all along their jaws.

Human beings have two breasts on the front of their bodies. In terms of mammals, we're pikers: dogs, for example, have up to ten "breasts" on their bellies (I think they actually have 8 breasts and 10 nipples, but I might be mistaken). Regardless. Most herbivores nurse their young from udders between their hind legs. I'm pretty sure Al Bundy didn't read "Udder 'Uns."

Herbivores digest cellulose. Human beings do not. Some herbivores have several stomachs that allow them to break down cellulose efficiently. When was the last time anyone here saw a human being chew his/her cud?

Human beings have guts of moderate length. Herbivores tend to have very long or complex guts, including those multiple stomachs at times, to aid in the digestion of cellulose. Our guts are neither as long as herbivores or as short as carnivores. That in itself would suggest an omnivorous diet.

Herbivores are born capable of walking and running within minutes of their birth. Human beings, like other omnivores, are born with poor vision and essentially undeveloped. We are slightly more developed than carnivorous animals or to omnivores closer to carnivorous. Feline and canine species, after all, are born with sealed ears and eyes, whereas human beings have limited vision and can hear.

So, whether you argue the existence of God or not--and I believe that God exists and is the Creator--it would seem logical that we were physiologically "meant" to eat meat. We might not die without it, but most vegans take a boatload of supplements. In my opinion, most vegans don't look healthy, especially those who have been at it for a while or those who claim to have active lifestyles. To me, that would speak to them having a less than adequate diet *for the species* even if they can sustain themselves quiet adequately on what they eat.

I hear what you're saying. But to address your points:

Most, but not all animals with eyes in front are carnivores/omnivores (pandas, koalas), and not all animals with eyes on the side are herbivores (fish, orca).

As far as the teeth argument, our teeth don't primarily cut and tear like a carnivore's would. Our incisors are very small. In fact our teeth are most similar to chimpanzee teeth. Chimpanzees, coincidentally, are mostly vegetarian. Even that though, there are animals with big incisors who don't use them to tear meat.

But that's neither here nor there. What makes an animal a carnivore, omnivore, or herbavore is what they eat/need to eat. So for example, obligate carnivores need meat. We are omnivores, but not obligate omnivores. Meaning, we *can* eat both meat and plants, but do not need to eat meat. An animal that is an obligate omnivore would need both plants AND meat to subsist. Essentially humans are "made" to eat whatever's convenient. But meat is not necessary, if one chooses to eschew it.

But what about B12? We need B12, and the general population gets it from meat sources without a problem. Vegans need B12 supplements because they don't get it in their diet. If we didn't need meat, then why is it (basically, with the exception of dairy and eggs) the only source of B12?

ETA: My knowledge on the whole B12 thing is relatively small, so if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. But from my general understanding, someone on a vegan diet would struggle greatly without supplementation. I doubt man kind would be here today if our ancestors partook in a vegan diet. Although, given our access to B12 supplements I suppose you could say that nowadays, meat isn't necessary?

or she is just trying to spread the word of animal cruelty? By showing people that may not know how the majority of animals are treated? Because honestly some people just don’t know. Personally I don’t think this is the best way to spread veganism, but everyone is different….but obviously it just puts people off….

I’m curious for how long all these “pushy” vegans have been vegan for? I was like that in the very early years of being vegan…but you hopefully learn quickly that it’s not generally the best way to reach out for your cause.

Spreading the word that most people already understand. Things have to die if you eat. She's proselytizing people who have no desire to adopt her beliefs. She's a jerk. Her facebook friend, on the other hand, is very accommodating, as is her right.

I worked in a slaughter yard for a couple of summers during college, one designed by Temple Grandin. Those animals were treated very well. It's wrong to put that kind of face on an industry that, for the vast majority, is extremely humane in its containment and slaughter practices. Real animal cruelty is far more rare than most proselytizing activist would have you believe. The fact that 99% of them have never even seen the conditions first hand is what bothers me the most.

Just to get back on point. Just tell anyone (insert any dietary vigilante here) who doesn't like the way you eat to back off, it's none of their business.

I think the hard part here is where people's differences in their belief of what is cruelty and "humane" slaughter....but we are just going to have to agree to disagree here.

Anyways. Yay for food, lets eat! I'll eat some seitan and you eat whatever it is that you eat and we will all be happy and everyone can mind their own business and be nice.

Anyone want a beer?