How to tell vegan friends to back off?!

I disagree....I don't find it hard to get any of my nutrients, or expensive.

Beer for everyone!!!!!

Point taken with the koala bear--however, it is an entirely different type of herbivore--not a hoofed herbivore, lives in trees, etc. They are not representative of herbivores and neither are pandas.

On the contrary, chimpanzees are omnivores. The large incisors on most carnivores are not used for tearing. They are used for gripping. We're omnivores, face it. That's what "eat(ing) whatever is convenient" is all about. Human beings did not start developing the brains of modern humans until they began eating an omnivorous diet--so, yes, it was necessary for us to eat meat to become us. We also thrive when we eat meat and receive sufficient nutrition without supplements. Don't preach at me about plant proteins. They are not sufficient. If they were, then there would not be so many vegans on supplements.

Yes, that's why I said chimpanzees are mostly vegetarian, because they are not fully. They eat mostly greens and fruits, with some insects/small animals on the side. When you say "we're omnivores, face it", I'm a little confused- I never said we weren't designed to be able to digest meat. I said we're not obligate omnivores... meaning, we don't *have* to, we're just able to. Difference.

Now, I'm a bit concerned why you would state your view on meat proteins, but then tell me I'd be "preaching" if I said anything about plant proteins. It sounds like you are prejudging anything I could say by calling it just preaching. I could tell you that you're inaccurate, and that you can 100% get all your protein needs met by plant proteins. But I doubt you will listen. Perhaps look up on any website that uses scientific basis/research studies and you will find I am correct. Or, the fact that I'm not having muscle atrophy issues despite being a vegetarian for 11 years?

Point taken with the koala bear--however, it is an entirely different type of herbivore--not a hoofed herbivore, lives in trees, etc. They are not representative of herbivores and neither are pandas.

On the contrary, chimpanzees are omnivores. The large incisors on most carnivores are not used for tearing. They are used for gripping. We're omnivores, face it. That's what "eat(ing) whatever is convenient" is all about. Human beings did not start developing the brains of modern humans until they began eating an omnivorous diet--so, yes, it was necessary for us to eat meat to become us. We also thrive when we eat meat and receive sufficient nutrition without supplements. Don't preach at me about plant proteins. They are not sufficient. If they were, then there would not be so many vegans on supplements.

Yes, that's why I said chimpanzees are mostly vegetarian, because they are not fully. They eat mostly greens and fruits, with some insects/small animals on the side. When you say "we're omnivores, face it", I'm a little confused- I never said we weren't designed to be able to digest meat. I said we're not obligate omnivores... meaning, we don't *have* to, we're just able to. Difference.

Now, I'm a bit concerned why you would state your view on meat proteins, but then tell me I'd be "preaching" if I said anything about plant proteins. It sounds like you are prejudging anything I could say by calling it just preaching. I could tell you that you're inaccurate, and that you can 100% get all your protein needs met by plant proteins. But I doubt you will listen. Perhaps look up on any website that uses scientific basis/research studies and you will find I am correct. Or, the fact that I'm not having muscle atrophy issues despite being a vegetarian for 11 years?

Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.

A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.

I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.

Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.

A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.

I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.

Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.

Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks

Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables

So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.

So modern man CAN survive on a vegan diet, with suppliments/planning/access to certain foods. But historically, humans weren't made to survive off a vegan diet. If they were, there wouldn't be the B12 issue.

Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.

A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.

I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.

Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.

Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks

Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables

So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.

So modern man CAN survive on a vegan diet, with suppliments/planning/access to certain foods. But historically, humans weren't made to survive off a vegan diet. If they were, there wouldn't be the B12 issue.

He was also meant to die from simple diseases and injuries. He wouldn't have eaten pineapples if he lived in Massachusetts. Luckily, we live in 2014 where we have access to cool new foods and gadgets and hippity-hop music.

I'm not disagreeing, simply stating a fact.

Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.

A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.

I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.

Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.

Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks

Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables

So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.

So, basically, if you spend even more time eating your special diet and obsessing about the food that goes in your mouth, you can avoid putting a capsule in your mouth--but you have to know what you're doing and be dedicated to it? Do vegans ever stop worrying about eating? Thanks, but no. You can stop trying to justify your diet to me now. I'm really not all that invested in your dietary choices and remain convinced that there are some things about it that saying would probably get me banned from the forums.

So, basically, if you spend even more time eating your special diet and obsessing about the food that goes in your mouth, you can avoid putting a capsule in your mouth--but you have to know what you're doing and be dedicated to it? Do vegans ever stop worrying about eating? Thanks, but no. You can stop trying to justify your diet to me now. I'm really not all that invested in your dietary choices and remain convinced that there are some things about it that saying would probably get me banned from the forums.

You say you're not invested, and yet you keep responding and knocking people who eat a vegan diet. Seems inconsistent.

I wouldn't say adding two tablespoons of nutritional yeast to my dinner is "obsessing". Even so, what's so wrong about being dedicated to something you care about? There are people who spend hours and hours in the gym, prepping food for the week, researching recipes - and they don't have to be vegans. It doesn't even have to be about food. People spend time and energy on things that are important to them.

Just because you don't like it or don't want to do it doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. You may view it as obsessing, but I find a lot of joy in staying healthy while eating a diet that's in line with my morals.

hate to break it to ya, but they're literally stating facts. animal proteins are linked to all sorts of diseases. and animal agriculture is cruel. if you feel bad then that's on you.

For all the people saying the OPs friend needs to respect their choice. Eating meet is not a personal choice when it ends the life of another living being. You are imposing your desires on someone else. Would you tell someone to respect a rapist's decision? No? Ok.

Vegan diets move a lot of nutritious and enjoyable food onto an imagined naughty list. It's not a superior way to eat if you consider health, convenience, and the pleasure of eating juicy beef and chicken flesh. Veganism is simply an overly restrictive diet. However, I could see adopting a vegan diet on ethical grounds, especially considering the cruel way most of our tasty, nutritious animal products are produced.