How do you feel about fat pride?

^yeah.. but ppl's bad decisions being subsidized by others is still wrong.. very wrong for the market.. individuals keeping their money are much more efficient at using it then a bureaucrat... the utility and velocity of money moves efficient period.

one of my degrees was in economics :smokin:

Says the former drug addict.

People need help all the time for different things. A lot of those things are direct results of bad decisions - that doesn't make them less worthy of the help.

I'd rather pay for medical care for an obese person than funnel another billion dollars into the DoD.

You know, as a retired Veteran I resent that statement. Because if it wherent for the Department of Defense and all of us military past and present you whould have the rights you have today to say that mess.

I think we all LOVE the Vets - I Love them enough not to put them in harms way over needless campaigns and being a global police man...

#letsworryaboutourbordersbeforeworryingaboutpakistans

- and I'm also for totally open borders and totally free trade.

Economics :smokin: you sound like a crackpot in today's times till you get into the roots..

As I had to learn the hard way.. Freedom isnt Free... there are way more twists and turns to how these campaigns begin and end up than you or I could ever decipher. Being a global police man is the small part of the job believe it or not. I will just say this, I paid with my health for what we have and I dont regret it or want to exchange it. I just want others to appreciate what they have and be thankful for those who gave even more than I to get it.

There is blowback and an increased risk of terrorism with us trotting around the globe acting like we are the big brother to all other countries..its nuts, it doesn't work, our founders warned us about this.. ..soldiers are making sacrifices I know and I appreciate it, and I have friends & family that serve and make those sacrifices - but they are not defending America's national security - the only time we should EVER go to war is when there is a war resolution created by congress (not the president saying.. 'hey I think Syria needs to be punished' or 'lets go invade libya because...well no reason needed there general public' ...

@sunofabeach14 - 5 years getting that degree.. countless papers and text read - I'm not going to even delve into it - I believe in the Austrian School Economics - you can be a Keynesian - I disagree respectfully but I'm not going to waist my time arguing about it because this just isn't the place for it.. its very very complicated, and variables are many and inconsistent.

Congrats on your degree. I have two graduate degrees, have been published, and have negotiated several billion dollars in international financings for the top investment banks, but I wasn't aware that this was a pissing contest so much as a discussion on the fat acceptance movement. Enjoy.

lol well you won that pissing contest sir!

Just trying to point out that it's best that we all keep it in our pants and focus instead on making cogent arguments

^yeah.. but ppl's bad decisions being subsidized by others is still wrong.. very wrong for the market.. individuals keeping their money are much more efficient at using it then a bureaucrat... the utility and velocity of money moves efficient period.

one of my degrees was in economics :smokin:

Says the former drug addict.

People need help all the time for different things. A lot of those things are direct results of bad decisions - that doesn't make them less worthy of the help.

I'd rather pay for medical care for an obese person than funnel another billion dollars into the DoD.

You know, as a retired Veteran I resent that statement. Because if it wherent for the Department of Defense and all of us military past and present you whould have the rights you have today to say that mess.

I think we all LOVE the Vets - I Love them enough not to put them in harms way over needless campaigns and being a global police man...

#letsworryaboutourbordersbeforeworryingaboutpakistans

- and I'm also for totally open borders and totally free trade.

Economics :smokin: you sound like a crackpot in today's times till you get into the roots..

As I had to learn the hard way.. Freedom isnt Free... there are way more twists and turns to how these campaigns begin and end up than you or I could ever decipher. Being a global police man is the small part of the job believe it or not. I will just say this, I paid with my health for what we have and I dont regret it or want to exchange it. I just want others to appreciate what they have and be thankful for those who gave even more than I to get it.

There is blowback and an increased risk of terrorism with us trotting around the globe acting like we are the big brother to all other countries..its nuts, it doesn't work, our founders warned us about this.. ..soldiers are making sacrifices I know and I appreciate it, and I have friends & family that serve and make those sacrifices - but they are not defending America's national security - the only time we should EVER go to war is when there is a war resolution created by congress (not the president saying.. 'hey I think Syria needs to be punished' or 'lets go invade libya because...well no reason needed there general public' ...

@sunofabeach14 - 5 years getting that degree.. countless papers and text read - I'm not going to even delve into it - I believe in the Austrian School Economics - you can be a Keynesian - I disagree respectfully but I'm not going to waist my time arguing about it because this just isn't the place for it.. its very very complicated, and variables are many and inconsistent.

Congrats on your degree. I have two graduate degrees, have been published, and have negotiated several billion dollars in international financings for the top investment banks, but I wasn't aware that this was a pissing contest so much as a discussion on the fat acceptance movement. Enjoy.

lol well you won that pissing contest sir!

Just trying to point out that it's best that we all keep it in our pants and focus instead on making cogent arguments

ok fair fair!

:embarassed:

my bad!

You know, as a retired Veteran I resent that statement. Because if it wherent for the Department of Defense and all of us military past and present you whould have the rights you have today to say that mess.

You're assigning meaning to my words that just aren't true. My lack of support of the DoD is not a reflection of my feelings about our military, or my support of them as individuals.

Our military budget is three times that of the budget of the next country - and more than the next 8 countries COMBINED. And after all that money we are FAILING our veterans horribly. The money being spent is not going where it should (to the VA hospitals, to support the men and women coming home and experiencing PTSD, to help our military acclimate back into civilian life).

Am I really supposed to want to support an organization that rips lives apart and doesn't help put them back together? No, I won't.

That does not mean, however, that I do not support our troops, past and present.

I'm sorry if my words and opinions offend you, but but I take serious issue with how our vets are treated and how badly the DoD fails them.

^Barnie Sanders & Dennis Kucinich just said that.. the real epidemic is our soldiers offing themselves soo much.. we need to bring them home.

Obama is Bushlite.. #dafaqwegointolibyaforbra?

Im only going to say one thing that comes to mind reading this..suck it up and grow a pair, this is the *kitten* you signed up for soldier/sailor/marine. We all signed the contract, by choice,we knew what we where getting into, so offing yourself , TO ME, is a weak minded way of handling things. :grumble:

!!! wow.. I have friends that are soldiers that were suicidal! They are really tough people, but they saw things that.. were like really really bad.. not to mention civilians are dying constantly ... especially with the crazy drone strikes in Yemen and Pakistan..

We need to bring home the troops - war should be an absolute last measure and a measure only taken if we as a country are at risk - this policing the world nonsense will never end, and it would be one thing if our country had the capital to do it, but we are paying for these wars on Credit from China & Japan while inflating our currency through quantitative easing by the federal reserve.


...end the wars. its total madness.

Was staying out of it until the statement about soldiers offing themselves being weak.

Just like you were/are in the military and take offense to certain statements, I work in suicide prevention, specifically with soldiers, and I take offense to your ignorant statement.

Far from ignorant and quite informed, suicide prevention is part of our trainning (quarterly) when active duty. I made it clear that it was in my oppinion. You can like my oppinion or lump it, it matters not to me but back up when you call me something like ignorant. I am ignorant of a lot of things. I have been suicidal myself. Yes I can still be that callous after that. Because I learned that when you kill yourself you kill your family your friends and every wonderful memory you where involved in. So yes I call it weak minded, because I have been there and done that. Those soldiers are a damn site stronger thay you obviously give them credit for. So take your label/ accusation of ignorance and shove it! (Now I'm angry)

Was staying out of it until the statement about soldiers offing themselves being weak.

Just like you were/are in the military and take offense to certain statements, I work in suicide prevention, specifically with soldiers, and I take offense to your ignorant statement.

Far from ignorant and quite informed, suicide prevention is part of our trainning (quarterly) when active duty. I made it clear that it was in my oppinion. You can like my oppinion or lump it, it matters not to me but back up when you call me something like ignorant. I am ignorant of a lot of things. I have been suicidal myself. Yes I can still be that callous after that. Because I learned that when you kill yourself you kill your family your friends and every wonderful memory you where involved in. So yes I call it weak minded, because I have been there and done that. Those soldiers are a damn site stronger thay you obviously give them credit for. So take your label/ accusation of ignorance and shove it! (Now I'm angry)

Was staying out of it until the statement about soldiers offing themselves being weak.

Just like you were/are in the military and take offense to certain statements, I work in suicide prevention, specifically with soldiers, and I take offense to your ignorant statement.

Far from ignorant and quite informed, suicide prevention is part of our trainning (quarterly) when active duty. I made it clear that it was in my oppinion. You can like my oppinion or lump it, it matters not to me but back up when you call me something like ignorant. I am ignorant of a lot of things. I have been suicidal myself. Yes I can still be that callous after that. Because I learned that when you kill yourself you kill your family your friends and every wonderful memory you where involved in. So yes I call it weak minded, because I have been there and done that. Those soldiers are a damn site stronger thay you obviously give them credit for. So take your label/ accusation of ignorance and shove it! (Now I'm angry)

So you ARE callous? :laugh:

ETA: You're the one calling soldiers "weak-minded", not me.

Yes I can still be that callous after that.

So yes I call it weak minded, because I have been there and done that.

You're putting words in my mouth, I didnt say all soldiers and they are a lot stronger than many give them credit for. Callous is looking at them and when they reach out you slap them away. I do not do that, but I will let them know that their choices affects way more than themselves, I will get them the help they are asking for, but I retain the opinion that they are being weak minded. I have long known that when they want help they will tell you about suicidal tendancies, if they have truely lost all hope. You will never know until it is too late that they where suicidal.

How do I feel about it? I feel that it doesn't matter how I feel about it. It's not my job to legislate how other people feel about themselves or determine whether they have a right to feel that way. And I certainly can't muster enough arrogance to assume that, by merely taking a glimpse at someone else's physique, I can KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt whether that person is really happy or takes pride in him/herself. I know this may be a shocker, but I'm pretty sure some people can be happy and overweight because their physical appearance isn't the key marker they use to judge their own worth.

Your own self-image is your own business...and people who think they have a right to comment on it when not expressly invited to do so are sadly deluded.

I will say this, though. Fat is not "disgusting" or some of the other choice judgment-charged words that have been thrown around in this thread. Fat is a substance that the body produces, and the body needs a certain amount for its own survival. You may not personally care for the aesthetics of a body that has more than is needed. Everyone is entitled to his or her own personal preferences. But your preference does not give you the right to try to make it into a moral issue or to pontificate about it as if you are the governing moral authority over someone else's body -- especially if you don't know for sure what all the contributing factors to that weight gain were or what efforts that person may be making.

As for paying for someone else's health: if you participate in an insurance system, you understand that it is a pool, comprised of all users regardless of their individual personal choices. Almost everyone has bad habits that can negatively impact health (even if it's speeding, or running too much, or making ill-advised comments about others' physical features that result in the speaker getting punched). Often, the obese already pay higher premiums, as do many who are judged to have "less healthy" lifestyles.

If you buy a ticket with a passenger airline, well...you and your fellow passengers all pay for that flight together because it's much cheaper than buying and maintaining your own private jet. In some cases, the person who can't fit into the ever-narrowing airline seat is forced to buy a second seat. If not...oh well. On planes, I've had to sit next to people who were not overweight but had no concept of personal space -- arms and elbows everywhere, people's heads practically in my lap. I've had to sit next to people who had body odor or wore way too much perfume. And it takes far less time and effort for those folks to keep their arms to themselves, keep their seats in the upright position, and take a shower than it takes for a person to lose weight even when s/he is making an effort to do so.

If someone else wants to embrace his/her weight and say "I don't want to change," so what?! It's none of my business -- just like it's not my business to try to deflate the ego of some guy spending his time on a forum talking about his clothes, his 28" waist, his self-flirtation in the mirror, and his belief that his physique rivals Michelangelo's David. His self-opinion may not match my opinion of him, but if he wants to love himself a lot as he is, it's not my job to point out what I perceive as personal deficiencies in order to try to make his self-opinion match mine. I say, let him love himself. His self-esteem is not a threat to me.

Very few people need help hating themselves. A lot of people need help loving themselves, though. Being helpful is not tearing others down, but is, instead, pointing out those things in others that are valuable and lovable. Focus on those things you can respect and admire in them, and make sure they see them, too. If you can't see those things just because they are fat, then I respectfully submit that their weight isn't the real problem.

How do I feel about it? I feel that it doesn't matter how I feel about it. It's not my job to legislate how other people feel about themselves or determine whether they have a right to feel that way. And I certainly can't muster enough arrogance to assume that, by merely taking a glimpse at someone else's physique, I can KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt whether that person is really happy or takes pride in him/herself. I know this may be a shocker, but I'm pretty sure some people can be happy and overweight because their physical appearance isn't the key marker they use to judge their own worth.

Your own self-image is your own business...and people who think they have a right to comment on it when not expressly invited to do so are sadly deluded.

I will say this, though. Fat is not "disgusting" or some of the other choice judgment-charged words that have been thrown around in this thread. Fat is a substance that the body produces, and the body needs a certain amount for its own survival. You may not personally care for the aesthetics of a body that has more than is needed. Everyone is entitled to his or her own personal preferences. But your preference does not give you the right to try to make it into a moral issue or to pontificate about it as if you are the governing moral authority over someone else's body -- especially if you don't know for sure what all the contributing factors to that weight gain were or what efforts that person may be making.

As for paying for someone else's health: if you participate in an insurance system, you understand that it is a pool, comprised of all users regardless of their individual personal choices. Almost everyone has bad habits that can negatively impact health (even if it's speeding, or running too much, or making ill-advised comments about others' physical features that result in the speaker getting punched). Often, the obese already pay higher premiums, as do many who are judged to have "less healthy" lifestyles.

If you buy a ticket with a passenger airline, well...you and your fellow passengers all pay for that flight together because it's much cheaper than buying and maintaining your own private jet. In some cases, the person who can't fit into the ever-narrowing airline seat is forced to buy a second seat. If not...oh well. On planes, I've had to sit next to people who were not overweight but had no concept of personal space -- arms and elbows everywhere, people's heads practically in my lap. I've had to sit next to people who had body odor or wore way too much perfume. And it takes far less time and effort for those folks to keep their arms to themselves, keep their seats in the upright position, and take a shower than it takes for a person to lose weight even when s/he is making an effort to do so.

If someone else wants to embrace his/her weight and say "I don't want to change," so what?! It's none of my business -- just like it's not my business to try to deflate the ego of some guy spending his time on a forum talking about his clothes, his 28" waist, his self-flirtation in the mirror, and his belief that his physique rivals Michelangelo's David. His self-opinion may not match my opinion of him, but if he wants to love himself a lot as he is, it's not my job to point out what I perceive as personal deficiencies in order to try to make his self-opinion match mine. I say, let him love himself. His self-esteem is not a threat to me.

Very few people need help hating themselves. A lot of people need help loving themselves, though. Being helpful is not tearing others down, but is, instead, pointing out those things in others that are valuable and lovable. Focus on those things you can respect and admire in them, and make sure they see them, too. If you can't see those things just because they are fat, then I respectfully submit that their weight isn't the real problem.

That was amazing. What a beautiful heart you must have.

Confidence is a beautiful thing regardless of your physical appearance. It's attractive and sexy. I believe everyone is beautiful regardless of downfalls they believe they have. Find what works for you and you should have confidence in yourself.

Keep in mind, I am not calling people overweight unhealthy, although over time there will be affects. I understand health may not be a priority for most people. Although, an overweight person carrying 2 or 3 times normal body weight is going to have degeneration in knee joints. The joints are not made to withstand that much weight over extended periods of time. With meniscus and bursa sacks breaking down over time eventually you will have bone on bone. Horrible pain at the age of 50. This is no way for anyone to live their life. On pain meds which will in turn affect liver and other vital organs. Eventually the body will break down. And the quality of life decreases. Pain is not something I wish on anyone. There is no reason someone should have to suffer performing normal day to day activities. Just my opinion.

Was staying out of it until the statement about soldiers offing themselves being weak.

Just like you were/are in the military and take offense to certain statements, I work in suicide prevention, specifically with soldiers, and I take offense to your ignorant statement.

Far from ignorant and quite informed, suicide prevention is part of our trainning (quarterly) when active duty. I made it clear that it was in my oppinion. You can like my oppinion or lump it, it matters not to me but back up when you call me something like ignorant. I am ignorant of a lot of things. I have been suicidal myself. Yes I can still be that callous after that. Because I learned that when you kill yourself you kill your family your friends and every wonderful memory you where involved in. So yes I call it weak minded, because I have been there and done that. Those soldiers are a damn site stronger thay you obviously give them credit for. So take your label/ accusation of ignorance and shove it! (Now I'm angry)

I personally think that suicide and suicide prevention are also very worthy topics, they happen to be close to my heart, but what the heck do they have to do with fat acceptance? I think we are in full thread derail mode at this point.

The topic got derailed a long time ago when wars were brought up :laugh:

War is the continuation of fat acceptance by other means

^yeah what the smarter guy said!

@ribqah -
1st off brah ... I'm a diehard libertarian - I'm not promoting legislating anything lolzzz

2nd.. Obesity is repulsive bro?! smells bad, its unhealthy, it looks disgusting... I'm blunt about hating it because I hate it.. its absolutely nasty.. the individual that is in a cycle of pain and hurt living like that? - I feel empathy for them!


"If someone else wants to embrace his/her weight and say "I don't want to change," so what?! It's none of my business -- just like it's not my business to try to deflate the ego of some guy spending his time on a forum talking about his clothes, his 28" waist, his self-flirtation in the mirror, and his belief that his physique rivals Michelangelo's David. His self-opinion may not match my opinion of him, but if he wants to love himself a lot as he is, it's not my job to point out what I perceive as personal deficiencies in order to try to make his self-opinion match mine. I say, let him love himself. His self-esteem is not a threat to me. "

:frown:
you don't think I could be the next rival to Michelangelo's David?


- LOLZ I'm just flattered you listened to me ramble on about my love for myself.

:drinker:

Read on I'm sure your in for more treats!

Confidence is a beautiful thing regardless of your physical appearance. It's attractive and sexy. I believe everyone is beautiful regardless of downfalls they believe they have. Find what works for you and you should have confidence in yourself.

Keep in mind, I am not calling people overweight unhealthy, although over time there will be affects. I understand health may not be a priority for most people. Although, an overweight person carrying 2 or 3 times normal body weight is going to have degeneration in knee joints. The joints are not made to withstand that much weight over extended periods of time. With meniscus and bursa sacks breaking down over time eventually you will have bone on bone. Horrible pain at the age of 50. This is no way for anyone to live their life. On pain meds which will in turn affect liver and other vital organs. Eventually the body will break down. And the quality of life decreases. Pain is not something I wish on anyone. There is no reason someone should have to suffer performing normal day to day activities. Just my opinion.