OK Ladies...Be HONEST!!
Replies
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Okay if they just look. rude comments, sexual come-ons, and ogling / touching are offensive.0
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This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.
This is me exactly. Although I still feel somewhat self-conscious...mainly worried Im being compared to the hot chicks in the gym. But if youre super cute and obviously appreciate what youre looking at, then it gives me a little boost to work out even harder. If youre fugly though.... I feel violated. Lol. Sorry...just how I operate.0 -
This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.
Oh dear, what a horrible, heteronormative and untrue statement this is.
Maybe it doesnt apply to all women, but I wouldnt say its untrue. I still feel kinda awkward and self-conscious no matter who is looking, but its less gross if im attracted to the person.0 -
This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.
Oh dear, what a horrible, heteronormative and untrue statement this is.
Still not sure.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=heteronormative0 -
I read the article. I'm not happy being lumped in with rapists because I am a man. I was take the worst example from eery group then should all women be viewed as Lorena Bobbit or one of those teachers that were having sex with teen age boys. If someone saw me on the street they would see a pretty normal laid back guy. I look like that everyday.. Im friendly and don't see why I have to go out of my way to let anyone know I am there. The author talks about getting involved...he's nuts and will probably end up getting a beating or shot. Don't get me wrong I'll be observant and if it gets in anyway physical I'm in there. I'm not so sure if its rape culture or a culture of fear. There is enough scary **** out there...I don't want to have to eyeball everyone I see. Maybe I'm not taking the right approach to this but I consider myself a good and decent person. I will sometimes make off color comments or tell a dirty joke but I don't think that shold be how I am judged. I appreciate your views and may agree with some but not all of them.
I really think that you're personalizing something that's meant to inform - which is really easy to do. It must be hard to be a dude in a discussion like this - but that's why it's so important to try to understand what the point is.
Rape culture exists - and your OP is part of it, even though we know you ABSOLUTELY didn't mean to partake, it's such an ingrained habit for both men and women.
Your initial post was like "do girls mind if guys check them out? I think no, otherwise they'd work out somewhere else".
It looks like a perfectly innocuous statement - but the fact that there is a "somewhere else" to work out for women only and that that would enter your mind as a viable option to avoid ogling is part of the problem. There should be no ogling at all - and rather than thinking women would change gyms to avoid it, we should be suggesting men cut it out.
That's what rape culture is about - it's not about approving of rape, or thinking that every man is a rapist - it's about constantly putting the onus on women to change *their* behavior/reactions, instead of realizing that men need to change, too.
We teach little girls about modesty and how to make sure they are safe. We're not (generally) teaching boys about respecting girls no matter how they dress and what consent really means. We teach girls that when boys pick on them, the boy likes them - instead of teaching boys how to handle/express their emotions and girls to stand up for themselves when they are picked on.
It's just the way society is. And it's never going to change until everyone gets involved in the conversation - ESPECIALLY men.
I hope this makes sense.
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.0 -
This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.
Oh dear, what a horrible, heteronormative and untrue statement this is.
Maybe it doesnt apply to all women, but I wouldnt say its untrue. I still feel kinda awkward and self-conscious no matter who is looking, but its less gross if im attracted to the person.
Unfortunately the OP didn't say some women, they lumped all women together. Therefore it's untrue.0 -
I read the article. I'm not happy being lumped in with rapists because I am a man. I was take the worst example from eery group then should all women be viewed as Lorena Bobbit or one of those teachers that were having sex with teen age boys. If someone saw me on the street they would see a pretty normal laid back guy. I look like that everyday.. Im friendly and don't see why I have to go out of my way to let anyone know I am there. The author talks about getting involved...he's nuts and will probably end up getting a beating or shot. Don't get me wrong I'll be observant and if it gets in anyway physical I'm in there. I'm not so sure if its rape culture or a culture of fear. There is enough scary **** out there...I don't want to have to eyeball everyone I see. Maybe I'm not taking the right approach to this but I consider myself a good and decent person. I will sometimes make off color comments or tell a dirty joke but I don't think that shold be how I am judged. I appreciate your views and may agree with some but not all of them.
I really think that you're personalizing something that's meant to inform - which is really easy to do. It must be hard to be a dude in a discussion like this - but that's why it's so important to try to understand what the point is.
Rape culture exists - and your OP is part of it, even though we know you ABSOLUTELY didn't mean to partake, it's such an ingrained habit for both men and women.
Your initial post was like "do girls mind if guys check them out? I think no, otherwise they'd work out somewhere else".
It looks like a perfectly innocuous statement - but the fact that there is a "somewhere else" to work out for women only and that that would enter your mind as a viable option to avoid ogling is part of the problem. There should be no ogling at all - and rather than thinking women would change gyms to avoid it, we should be suggesting men cut it out.
That's what rape culture is about - it's not about approving of rape, or thinking that every man is a rapist - it's about constantly putting the onus on women to change *their* behavior/reactions, instead of realizing that men need to change, too.
We teach little girls about modesty and how to make sure they are safe. We're not (generally) teaching boys about respecting girls no matter how they dress and what consent really means. We teach girls that when boys pick on them, the boy likes them - instead of teaching boys how to handle/express their emotions and girls to stand up for themselves when they are picked on.
It's just the way society is. And it's never going to change until everyone gets involved in the conversation - ESPECIALLY men.
I hope this makes sense.
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
That's a bit like the argument that women wouldn't wear low cut tops if they didn't want men to stare at their breasts.0 -
Yeah I'm not talking about PC culture at all. Treating women as people rather than objects isn't PC - it's being a decent human being. The fact that you call some of the reactions overboard instead of recognizing them as valid but disagreeing with the conclusion is part of the problem that I've been trying to explain.
Oh well, I tried. Thanks for replying - have a nice day.
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It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.0 -
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.
Totally not where I was going with the orginal post.0 -
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.
Good point.
Had that "women are liars" comment not been posted, I likely wouldn't have brought up rape culture at all. I don't go around calling people out on this stuff generally, because it's rarely ever intentional. I did use the OP as an example of how people feed into the problem without being aware that they are doing it. The intent wasn't to call you out, OP - just to give you an easy, example you to relate to of how pervasive it is. Sorry if I put you on the spot.0 -
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.
Totally not where I was going with the original post.
Where were you going with the original post?0 -
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.
Totally not where I was going with the orginal post.
Which is exactly what I said.
1. You are taking this way too personally.
2. You can't control threads on the internet.
3. All the comments on here are mostly about someone else's post, not the OP.0 -
No worries! I'm over it. I know who I am and what I am about. Everyone is entitiled to their own opionion.It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.
Good point.
Had that "women are liars" comment not been posted, I likely wouldn't have brought up rape culture at all. I don't go around calling people out on this stuff generally, because it's rarely ever intentional. I did use the OP as an example of how people feed into the problem without being aware that they are doing it. The intent wasn't to call you out, OP - just to give you an easy, example you to relate to of how pervasive it is. Sorry if I put you on the spot.0 -
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.
Totally not where I was going with the orginal post.
Which is exactly what I said.
1. You are taking this way too personally.
2. You can't control threads on the internet.
3. All the comments on here are mostly about someone else's post, not the OP.
Thanks.. I do get that. I just wasn't expecting this type of forum.0 -
The subject was discussed and probably brought light to some. Don't think everyone on here will change the way they think.
But some may think the next time they're in the gym about staring, and lewd comments being made. Don't think that the ones that were brought up in an environment where women are treated this way will change. Even though it got a little heated, it was good that it was brought up. Everyone have a nice day.0 -
It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.
I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).
For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.
For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.
Good point.
Had that "women are liars" comment not been posted, I likely wouldn't have brought up rape culture at all. I don't go around calling people out on this stuff generally, because it's rarely ever intentional. I did use the OP as an example of how people feed into the problem without being aware that they are doing it. The intent wasn't to call you out, OP - just to give you an easy, example you to relate to of how pervasive it is. Sorry if I put you on the spot.
Exactly. The OP didn't really phase me. I realize that we say things all the time that can be misconstrued, so I don't jump on every little thing. I wouldn't have gotten involved at all until I saw that comment.0 -
Bahah this is really funny! Hellooo, there are tons of hot bodies at the gym, men and women. Let's be real, women probably check out other women's bodies at the gym more than they look at men! I agree with other comments though, a glance or a brief moment of eye contact is totally fine, but not long term staring, no whispering or pointing with your buddies and absolutely NO eye contact while a woman is using the thigh machine and has awkward spread legs! That's my only rule 0
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Bahah this is really funny! Hellooo, there are tons of hot bodies at the gym, men and women. Let's be real, women probably check out other women's bodies at the gym more than they look at men! I agree with other comments though, a glance or a brief moment of eye contact is totally fine, but not long term staring, no whispering or pointing with your buddies and absolutely NO eye contact while a woman is using the thigh machine and has awkward spread legs! That's my only rule
Aw man. I've used that machine and felt paranoid as hell. But seems to help my squats. lol Only a few guys in my gym will use that machine.0 -
Bahah this is really funny! Hellooo, there are tons of hot bodies at the gym, men and women. Let's be real, women probably check out other women's bodies at the gym more than they look at men! I agree with other comments though, a glance or a brief moment of eye contact is totally fine, but not long term staring, no whispering or pointing with your buddies and absolutely NO eye contact while a woman is using the thigh machine and has awkward spread legs! That's my only rule
Great response!!0 -
Thanks.. I do get that. I just wasn't expecting this type of forum.
Dude, you posted a thread asking how much is it ok to ogle women in the gym.
Don't blame this place for the responses you got. Honestly you got off lucky. People were very kind.
I in no way asked for permission to ogle women in the gym. I just asked their feelings. I'm not blaming anyone, I just thought this would be a quick, easy and possibly funny post. Someone got people up in arms and the majority of the dicussion became about rape culture.0 -
they love it0
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If all women had the same mentality things would have been so much easier0
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I had a cute boy looking at me in the gym while I squatted 135#...I gotta say he was a little distracting. All he could see really was my big fat *kitten* squatting, which I don't know maybe that's what he's into...so then all those thoughts start going thru my head, and that's how it's distracting.
I think this hits the nail on the head for me. I don't care about a glance and a smile here and there, just don't lear and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T WATCH ME SQUAT. Or dead lift. Or bench.
One time I was testing my ORM squat and some guy decided to stand near me and watch me just as I was descending and it was so distracting I lost my focus. Just back off the ladies who are working hard, mmmmkay?
thanks.0 -
I think the same rules apply at the gym as they do in the rest of life. A glance or a smile is ok, but leering is just downright creepy. Although I've probably been guilty of staring myself if someone is moving an enormous amount of weight or has really awesome form (or is just doing something absurd).0
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Also, what men seem to forget sometimes is that we are at the gym to work without interruptions not there to be stared at all day.
This is true when it's true and false when it's false. I'm guessing the girl at my gym who wears a sports bra and spandex shorts that creep up her crack wants to be noticed just a weeeeeeeee bit more than the girls in baggy shorts and a t-shirt. Also, because the phrase "I just dress this way to be comfortable" is bound to come up I'm going to throw the BS flag already. If I can be comfortable in a tshirt and basketball shorts so can a girl. Tight close are optional and you're wearing them for a reason beyond any sort of function or comfort. It's not even bad that you're showing off but it's silly not to admit it.
I dress this way so I can see myself in the mirror. Not to attract unwanted attention.0 -
This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.
This is me exactly. Although I still feel somewhat self-conscious...mainly worried Im being compared to the hot chicks in the gym. But if youre super cute and obviously appreciate what youre looking at, then it gives me a little boost to work out even harder. If youre fugly though.... I feel violated. Lol. Sorry...just how I operate.
At the risk of being a fugly heteronormatist, you would not be compared to the hot chicks because you are one.0 -
If all women had the same mentality things would have been so much easier
This. Every woman is going to react differently in every situation. Use your best judgment when gawking.0 -
I had a cute boy looking at me in the gym while I squatted 135#...I gotta say he was a little distracting. All he could see really was my big fat *kitten* squatting, which I don't know maybe that's what he's into...so then all those thoughts start going thru my head, and that's how it's distracting.
I think this hits the nail on the head for me. I don't care about a glance and a smile here and there, just don't lear and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T WATCH ME SQUAT. Or dead lift. Or bench.
One time I was testing my ORM squat and some guy decided to stand near me and watch me just as I was descending and it was so distracting I lost my focus. Just back off the ladies who are working hard, mmmmkay?
thanks.
yes this! Plus I make very unattractive faces when I lift - no one wants to see that. (also, please don't steal weights from my rack while I'm in the middle of a rep - blows concentration!)0
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