losing fat/ gaining muscle mass simutaneously
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love2lift247 wrote: »I've never worked out for over 3 months before, in fact this is my longest streak of exercising ever. I literally had no muscle in my chest, and now I'm starting to see where it's showing up, I also see and feel my arms getting bigger.
That's probably mostly residual muscle tension.0 -
love2lift247 wrote: »I don't eat processed or fast foods or sugars anyways. this is all sounding like "bro science" so I'm just going to go to a doctor/nutritionist cause I have other questions anyways
Actually this is REAL SCIENCE.
There is no scientific evidence behind "clean eating". It's a made up term and an idiotic one at that.
I eat all these foods you're CLAIMING are bad for you or "bro science", yet look at my physique. Clearly I'm doing something right.
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U can use this http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/0
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Katerina9408 wrote: »0
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what ever I have to do to look better, cut fat and buff out, I'll do it0
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love2lift247 wrote: »ok, this discussion sure has gotten alot more attention than I thought it would.
at this point I think I should do a cut then a lean bulk but I'm starting to see results, I'm seeing my abs more, and I'm seeing muscle gains in my arms and chest, I don't want to bulk that hard because the way most people make it sound is like you're eating 3000 calories a day of whatever *kitten* food for 5 to 6 times a day. I know there's a clean way to do it but that's still a lot of food, I don't think I could eat like that, I don't eat processed or fast foods or sugars anyways. this is all sounding like "bro science" so I'm just going to go to a doctor/nutritionist cause I have other questions anyways
What is sounding like bro-science?
Who makes it sound like you are eating 3,000 calories of whatever *kitten* food a bunch of times a day?
What is inherently wrong with processed or fast foods? Or sugar? [And I am assuming that we are talking reasonable amounts and that the rest of the diet includes more nutrient dense foods - although...there are a lot pf processed foods that are very nutrient dense.]0 -
It's the size of the calorie surplus that can make you really fat rather than the content of those calories.
I'm a fairly little dude in my mid 30s, so my "bulking" surplus this winter was only around 2300-2500 calories. Even at that if I had to get my calories from baked chicken broccoli and brown rice I would have been too stuffed to lift heavy and hated it. There were days I needed 800 calories at 7 pm and had to get a milkshake just to hit that. If I tried to make up 700 calories and "eat clean" I would have had to swill olive oil or something.
Use that IIFYM calculator and it has a setting for bulking with different % on surplus.
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I've been following this thread and find myself equally persuaded by all the arguments.
- Recomp - most psychologically sustainable; little distress at noticeable fat gain or muscle loss; may work for newbies, for others likely to take a long time/ possible wheel-spinning - timescale of years??
- Bulk - may gain fat - hard for formerly overweight/obese; may just extend the pain of cutting anyway, but if the cut is successful, less dissatisfaction re muscle loss (avoiding so-called "skinny fat" look)
- Cut - hard, painful, but fast - if muscle retention successful, good definition at the end. If lots of LBM lost, unhappy result. (question: better or worse than bulking for loose skin?)
Is there like a handy If-Then decision tree? E.g. as above - if you've got 10 to lose, cutting makes more sense/is faster. If you're under x%, bulking may be advisable. etc0 -
love2lift247 wrote: »ok, this discussion sure has gotten alot more attention than I thought it would.
at this point I think I should do a cut then a lean bulk but I'm starting to see results, I'm seeing my abs more, and I'm seeing muscle gains in my arms and chest, I don't want to bulk that hard because the way most people make it sound is like you're eating 3000 calories a day of whatever *kitten* food for 5 to 6 times a day. I know there's a clean way to do it but that's still a lot of food, I don't think I could eat like that, I don't eat processed or fast foods or sugars anyways. this is all sounding like "bro science" so I'm just going to go to a doctor/nutritionist cause I have other questions anyways
No one said to eat crap food all the time. You should focus on nutrient dense food, and fill in the gaps of your macros and calories with foods you like that are calorie dense. This could be a snickers bar as a prewar out snack and a large bowl of ice cream at the end of the day. Simple.
No one said to fill your body with things you don't want to eat. That won't be sustainable.0 -
I'm having a hard time understanding what some people said earlier about not gaining muscle even though you're getting stronger if you're not bulking. The illusion of water retention or something. It doesn't make sense that your muscles wouldn't grow if you're going to failure and really pushing them...? I assume with high protein intake you'll be building muscle ...just at a slower pace if you're also working on burning fat. Someone explain this illusion that your muscles aren't growing ? I know muscle growth in general is very slow, regardless of who you are you're probably not gonna be able to gain much more than 5-10 lbs max of muscle every year (that's the # I understand it to be).
Sure I want muscles to look bigger but as a female my main issue and goal is to build strength. So I suppose I can get over how big/shaped my muscles look as long as I'm gaining strength, which no one has said you can't do when losing fat/"recomping." I'm just having a hard time understanding how your muscles wouldn't actually be growing if you feed them protein and more BCAAs despite a calorie deficit and cardio work.0 -
love2lift247 wrote: »JimFsfitnesspal wrote: »
What point are you trying to make. Posting random links with no context is well...random.
he claims to have lost 20 pound of fat and gained 10 pounds of muscle in another thread…
mrm and I argue that his calculations are off..
I guess now he is just going spam any thread about gaining muscle while in a deficit...
who's lost 20 pounds of fat? wasn't me, I haven't posted anything else other than this
i was referring to another poster...0 -
I'm having a hard time understanding what some people said earlier about not gaining muscle even though you're getting stronger if you're not bulking. The illusion of water retention or something. It doesn't make sense that your muscles wouldn't grow if you're going to failure and really pushing them...? I assume with high protein intake you'll be building muscle ...just at a slower pace if you're also working on burning fat. Someone explain this illusion that your muscles aren't growing ? I know muscle growth in general is very slow, regardless of who you are you're probably not gonna be able to gain much more than 5-10 lbs max of muscle every year (that's the # I understand it to be).
Sure I want muscles to look bigger but as a female my main issue and goal is to build strength. So I suppose I can get over how big/shaped my muscles look as long as I'm gaining strength, which no one has said you can't do when losing fat/"recomping." I'm just having a hard time understanding how your muscles wouldn't actually be growing if you feed them protein and more BCAAs despite a calorie deficit and cardio work.
muscle gains do not equal strength gains …
think of it like a business looks at productivity. If you increase productivity and get more work done with the SAME staff, you have increased their ability to complete said work, but you have not increased the size of your staff. You are getting more done with the same staff.
Strength gains are the same thing. You have trained your existing muscles to lift more weight. Hence, the EXISTING muscle is now more efficient and can lift more. So you are lifting more weight with the same muscle. I believe the term is neuromuscular adaptation = your muscles and existing nervous system become more efficient and can do more with the same muscle/system.
some people think they have more muscle because they lose body fat and it allows existing muscle to show, and then add in water retention and existing muscle looks bigger.
Hope this helps….0 -
Ok that makes sense, but then how do you know whether you actually gained muscle or just strength? Perhaps even while bulking you were still training existing muscle? If your definition and muscles appear bigger while bulking could you still have just gained strength and not muscle? Can you gain muscle without gaining strength...?0
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Ok that makes sense, but then how do you know whether you actually gained muscle or just strength? Perhaps even while bulking you were still training existing muscle? If your definition and muscles appear bigger while bulking could you still have just gained strength and not muscle? Can you gain muscle without gaining strength...?
How do you know you are gaining muscle? Take measurements every four weeks and see if size is increasing; track progress on scale; and take progress pictures. If your biceps go from 11 inches to 11.5 inches then you are gaining muscle. On my last bulk, which ended two weeks ago
I gained ten pounds…how do I know that I gained muscle? All of my starting measurements increased and I look bigger in my progress pictures….
Can you gain muscle without gaining strength? I am going to say hi. Because to gain muscle you need progressive overload, which means that you are going to need to lift heavier things so you would have to be adding strength.0 -
I'm having a hard time understanding what some people said earlier about not gaining muscle even though you're getting stronger if you're not bulking. The illusion of water retention or something. It doesn't make sense that your muscles wouldn't grow if you're going to failure and really pushing them...? I assume with high protein intake you'll be building muscle ...just at a slower pace if you're also working on burning fat. Someone explain this illusion that your muscles aren't growing ? I know muscle growth in general is very slow, regardless of who you are you're probably not gonna be able to gain much more than 5-10 lbs max of muscle every year (that's the # I understand it to be).
Sure I want muscles to look bigger but as a female my main issue and goal is to build strength. So I suppose I can get over how big/shaped my muscles look as long as I'm gaining strength, which no one has said you can't do when losing fat/"recomping." I'm just having a hard time understanding how your muscles wouldn't actually be growing if you feed them protein and more BCAAs despite a calorie deficit and cardio work.
muscle gains do not equal strength gains …
think of it like a business looks at productivity. If you increase productivity and get more work done with the SAME staff, you have increased their ability to complete said work, but you have not increased the size of your staff. You are getting more done with the same staff.
Strength gains are the same thing. You have trained your existing muscles to lift more weight. Hence, the EXISTING muscle is now more efficient and can lift more. So you are lifting more weight with the same muscle. I believe the term is neuromuscular adaptation = your muscles and existing nervous system become more efficient and can do more with the same muscle/system.
some people think they have more muscle because they lose body fat and it allows existing muscle to show, and then add in water retention and existing muscle looks bigger.
Hope this helps….
I was typing out almost the same thing but then the chiropractor started working on me. Well said.
thanks man ..I have my moments LOL
Learned from the best….0 -
Ok, so the idea that your muscles mainly use the protein you consume to rebuild and add muscle to vigorously worked muscles doesn't matter if you're eating at a deficit? High protein is moot point? That is still what kinda doesn't make sense to me. If you're essentially injuring your muscles and refueling with lots of protein, why wouldn't your body be burning more of your fat and carb stores and still use the protein to build muscle?0
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Albeit at a lower rate than if you were bulking. That of course makes sense.0
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Ok, so the idea that your muscles mainly use the protein you consume to rebuild and add muscle to vigorously worked muscles doesn't matter if you're eating at a deficit? High protein is moot point? That is still what kinda doesn't make sense to me. If you're essentially injuring your muscles and refueling with lots of protein, why wouldn't your body be burning more of your fat and carb stores and still use the protein to build muscle?
OK when in a deficit you want to increase protein to maintain as much existing LBM. The only people that will gain muscle in a deficit are unexperienced lifters (newbies) and high performance athletes; so for 90% of the rest of us the best that we can hope for is to maintain what we have.
when you are in surplus you want to actually be eating majority carbs and protein becomes less important than carb intake.
To your last point …when you are in a deficit your body is not efficient enough to just take excess protein and put it to building muscle mass. The reason for this is that when you are in an energy deficit your body directs energy reserves to essential bodily functions…
Think of it this way. If you have X materials and are trying to build a house and you run out of said materials, can you then start to tear down the house to build the other part of it and build the entire house at the same time?
It is the same with muscles.0
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