Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
Replies
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Research overtraining symptoms if you think it may apply to you. You can fix overtraining by deloading for a week or two.0
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I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles0 -
I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.0 -
I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?0 -
I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
Are you properly fueled before your workout? You might just be running out of energy in the middle. Personally, I run strong lifts which only takes about 40-50 minutes, but it's only 3 compound lifts per session; no accessory work.
I don't know if it would be a better program for your goals, but it may be a better program mentally. However, I haven't tried lots of different programs, so I'll let others weigh in on programming. I'm not sure if it's worth it for you to switch or not.0 -
I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
^ Yes to this. You are tired halfway through because that is a long workout. I just noticed that you said you are stalling and deloading on curls. Are you trying to lift to failure on the accessories? I am not too familiar with ICF, but it looks like the program intends the accessories to be supplemental hyper work. In other words, hit your accessory reps with a weight you are comfortable with and don't have to struggle too much to finish the set. Rest 1 minute or less between accessory sets. You don't need to punish yourself with heavy curls after you just finished your heavy compounds.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
No I'm not doing SL 5x5. I'm doing ICF 5x50 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
^ Yes to this. You are tired halfway through because that is a long workout. I just noticed that you said you are stalling and deloading on curls. Are you trying to lift to failure on the accessories? I am not too familiar with ICF, but it looks like the program intends the accessories to be supplemental hyper work. In other words, hit your accessory reps with a weight you are comfortable with and don't have to struggle too much to finish the set. Rest 1 minute or less between accessory sets. You don't need to punish yourself with heavy curls after you just finished your heavy compounds.
Yeah i tend to go as heavy as I can on the accessory work. I want to progress with those, so how else would I be able to get stronger with them if I don't push myself each workout? Isn't that counterintuitive?0 -
Also wondering what people's thoughts on Crossfit are, and if that would help me toward my aesthetic goals? Does anyone have an experience with it? Maybem being with an instructor and being pushed each session, I could acheive better results? just a thought...0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
^ Yes to this. You are tired halfway through because that is a long workout. I just noticed that you said you are stalling and deloading on curls. Are you trying to lift to failure on the accessories? I am not too familiar with ICF, but it looks like the program intends the accessories to be supplemental hyper work. In other words, hit your accessory reps with a weight you are comfortable with and don't have to struggle too much to finish the set. Rest 1 minute or less between accessory sets. You don't need to punish yourself with heavy curls after you just finished your heavy compounds.
Yeah i tend to go as heavy as I can on the accessory work. I want to progress with those, so how else would I be able to get stronger with them if I don't push myself each workout? Isn't that counterintuitive?
No, don't do that. Accessory work is called that for a reason. Your progress on that program will be driven by your compounds. You add weight to your accessories when they become so easy they feel like they are not stimulating anymore. If you could add 5 pounds to your DB curls every week, you would be breaking world records within a year.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
No I'm not doing SL 5x5. I'm doing ICF 5x5
Still should not take 90 mins for any 5x5 program in the novice phase of training. The novice phase is when you are conditioning your body and building it up mostly with compound movements. You need to either cut the sets on accessories or cut them out compeltely. I wouldn't do more than 3x8 on accesories. NOTE: that's 3 set of 8 reps. You should not rest much between sets on these either since they are building exercises.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
No I'm not doing SL 5x5. I'm doing ICF 5x5
Still should not take 90 mins for any 5x5 program in the novice phase of training. The novice phase is when you are conditioning your body and building it up mostly with compound movements. You need to either cut the sets on accessories or cut them out compeltely. I wouldn't do more than 3x8 on accesories. NOTE: that's 3 set of 8 reps. You should not rest much between sets on these either since they are building exercises.
I'm just following ICF 5x5 to a T, as told to do so by everyone here. The creator says that the program should take around 90 min.0 -
Yeah i tend to go as heavy as I can on the accessory work. I want to progress with those, so how else would I be able to get stronger with them if I don't push myself each workout? Isn't that counterintuitive?
I know the program doesn't call for this method, but an option could be to add reps instead of weight for the accessories lifts.
So you could run 5 week cycles, for example if you wanted to work in the 6-10 rep range:
Week 1 - 3x6
Week 2 - 3x7
Week 3 - 3x8
Week 4 - 3x9
Week 5 - 3x10
If you hit 3x10 in week 5 you would add weight to the bar for that lift before restarting the 5 week cycle. This is how I do my accessory work and I find it pretty good and I use weekly linear progression for the main lifts by adding weight to the bar.
It's still pretty tough progression but you might find it less taxing than adding weight to the bar each week / session.0 -
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
No I'm not doing SL 5x5. I'm doing ICF 5x5
Still should not take 90 mins for any 5x5 program in the novice phase of training. The novice phase is when you are conditioning your body and building it up mostly with compound movements. You need to either cut the sets on accessories or cut them out compeltely. I wouldn't do more than 3x8 on accesories. NOTE: that's 3 set of 8 reps. You should not rest much between sets on these either since they are building exercises.
I'm just following ICF 5x5 to a T, as told to do so by everyone here. The creator says that the program should take around 90 min.
I read up some more on ICF 5x5 and it looks like you're right, it should take about 90 minutes. It seems like Stronglifts 5x5 with a bunch of accessory exercises added. I did Stronglifts 5x5 a long time ago, and I remember it was pretty tough just by itself. I would definitely take it easy on that accessory work if you are doing ICF 5x5.0 -
It looks fine, the compressed version looks pretty good if you are short on time. No conventional deadlifts though? That might suck. ICF might be a bit too much for you right now. I remember it used to kick my *kitten* when I ran it for about 6 months and I was eating a tonne of food.
If you stick with ICF maybe consider a deload week, if that doesn't help you could drop back to 3x5 instead of 5x5 for heavy sets and see if you can add weight to the bar. Just some suggestions, I'm sure others have said similar things.0 -
To me, the fact that your accessory work has progressed faster than your main lifts suggests you are Majoring in the minors and need to shift focus to the basic compounds. Honeslty even SL 5x5 can be a lot of volume for many, and adding the accessory work can detract progress for many as well.
I think a portion of this is high expectations and building muscle takes time. I think when you aren't seeing results fast enough you are questioning this program and not giving it your max effort, as you alluded to.
I think All-Pro and Fierce 5 can both be good programs aimed at bodybuilding beginners. It is a common problem for new lifters (myself included) to try to switch programs every couple of months which can lead to spending too much time getting into the groove of a program. You work out 4.5 hours a week and how much time do you spend reading about lifting, reading programs, or looking at other physiques you would like to have your body look like? It's easy to get a little ADHD and obsessive.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?
For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.
I keep running aorund in circles
Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.
That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.
How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?
90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.
No I'm not doing SL 5x5. I'm doing ICF 5x5
Still should not take 90 mins for any 5x5 program in the novice phase of training. The novice phase is when you are conditioning your body and building it up mostly with compound movements. You need to either cut the sets on accessories or cut them out compeltely. I wouldn't do more than 3x8 on accesories. NOTE: that's 3 set of 8 reps. You should not rest much between sets on these either since they are building exercises.
I'm just following ICF 5x5 to a T, as told to do so by everyone here. The creator says that the program should take around 90 min.
ICF does usually run about 90 minutes including rest times and all. The way the program is designed the first few are compounds and obviously rest periods are slightly longer than the ending accessory movements. Any longer than 90 minutes then you're either killing time talking or just lounging around.
90 mins seems long but if that's the program I'll retract my statements. I think it's a too much for a novice but it's proven.0
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