Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?

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Replies

  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    va_01 wrote: »
    va_01 wrote: »
    va_01 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    va_01 wrote: »
    I just want to make sure it's ok i've been doing this routine for so long. I know it's mostly "broscience" to confuse your muscles so often, but is it ok if I'm using the same routine for such an extended amount of time? What are good ways to break past this plateau?

    For example, my bench, I knocked down 10-15%, and worked on slower negatives, then exploding up. that worked fine and well, until I hit my highest # again, which was the exact same as it was before i deloaded.

    I keep running aorund in circles

    Not that everyone is the same, but I ran strong lifts for over a year without an issue. I mentally got burnt out on it (and I think because of this I stalled more often; I wasn't pushing myself hard enough), did a different program for a while, injured myself, and just started back on Strong Lifts. At some point I will probably switch to a more intermediate program, but I'm still seeing some good progression.

    That's the thing - i feel like i've been running this program for so long, that i come into each workout with energy and enthusiasm, but then halfway through it (it takes about 90 minutes to complete), I dont find myself pushing myself as hard as I should be.

    How can I adjust this problem? Switch routines? Any others that would be comperable?

    90 mins? No, that does sound like SL 5x5 to me. You need to cut the accesories down if you are doing that many that it takes you so long to get through a workout. Unless you are an experienced lifter 90 mins will fry you mind and body.

    No I'm not doing SL 5x5. I'm doing ICF 5x5

    Still should not take 90 mins for any 5x5 program in the novice phase of training. The novice phase is when you are conditioning your body and building it up mostly with compound movements. You need to either cut the sets on accessories or cut them out compeltely. I wouldn't do more than 3x8 on accesories. NOTE: that's 3 set of 8 reps. You should not rest much between sets on these either since they are building exercises.

    I'm just following ICF 5x5 to a T, as told to do so by everyone here. The creator says that the program should take around 90 min.

    ICF does usually run about 90 minutes including rest times and all. The way the program is designed the first few are compounds and obviously rest periods are slightly longer than the ending accessory movements. Any longer than 90 minutes then you're either killing time talking or just lounging around.

    90 mins seems long but if that's the program I'll retract my statements. I think it's a too much for a novice but it's proven.

    Too much for many! I did ICF for awhile and found it was too long because (1) I'd sometimes feel mentally if not physically drained before I completed a workout; and (2) tough to find 90 minutes in too many days (ain't nobody got time for that! - well, some do, but I didn't always have that sort of time available).
  • se015
    se015 Posts: 583 Member
    How do you get abs like that? My abs are not nearly as visible as yours, is it more ab work or less eating?
  • williamgprice
    williamgprice Posts: 20 Member
    It's not him. He's already clarified.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    How do you get abs like that? My abs are not nearly as visible as yours, is it more ab work or less eating?

    Cut to below 8% BF plus ab work if you want that real cut look. Low BF% is the most important element.
  • se015
    se015 Posts: 583 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    How do you get abs like that? My abs are not nearly as visible as yours, is it more ab work or less eating?

    Cut to below 8% BF plus ab work if you want that real cut look. Low BF% is the most important element.

    How do you do that if you're bulking or that's not possible is it?
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    How do you get abs like that? My abs are not nearly as visible as yours, is it more ab work or less eating?

    Cut to below 8% BF plus ab work if you want that real cut look. Low BF% is the most important element.

    How do you do that if you're bulking or that's not possible is it?

    Not naturally
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    How do you get abs like that? My abs are not nearly as visible as yours, is it more ab work or less eating?

    Cut to below 8% BF plus ab work if you want that real cut look. Low BF% is the most important element.

    How do you do that if you're bulking or that's not possible is it?

    I'll add to what LBS said, get your bulk first then shred it.
  • va_01
    va_01 Posts: 176 Member
    Okay all,

    If i'm being honest with myself, i would have to say that I am sick of hte ICF 5x5 workouts.

    A.) I'm bored
    B.) It's a lot of volume... not sure if i can keep up with the progression

    What should I do now? Should I move on to another program? I really want to focus on hypertrophy now. I dont think I juiced out all my max strength gains on ICF, but strength isn't really my goal, and honestly, I have been dreading going to the gym because I am just so. bored. with my workouts.

    Do any of you have suggestions for me? here are my current main lifts:

    BB bench: 175 5x5
    Squat: 180 5x5
    OHP: 105 5x5
    Bent Over Rows: 160 5x5

    What do you think?
  • va_01
    va_01 Posts: 176 Member
    Bump?
  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
    Find another program, I guess. I did ICF 5x5 for a while, but I just couldn't find enough time in the gym to do it on a semi-regular schedule with some sessions pushing past 90 mins (I have an irregular work & family schedule, and always finding 90 mins on workout days just wasn't conducive to other priorities). Wouldn't say I got bored, but I know what you mean about needing to switch something up.

    I have enjoyed doing this: aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/ (ignore the silly name).

    It is a blend of strength and hypertrophy in that some of the big lifts you're effectively doing in a 4 - 6 rep range as you move up in weight, and you're pretty squarely in traditionally-recommended hypertrophy range on the "less-compound" and clearly accessory lifts. Longest days never run more than 47 - 48 minutes in the gym, and shorter days I might be out in 33 - 35 minutes if I want.

    Look around on bb.com and find something that you believe is well-designed and proven and better meets your goals.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Do what you want to do. I think I mentioned the Candito program like 19 pages back or something...
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,292 Member
    va_01 wrote: »
    Okay all,

    If i'm being honest with myself, i would have to say that I am sick of hte ICF 5x5 workouts.

    A.) I'm bored
    B.) It's a lot of volume... not sure if i can keep up with the progression

    What should I do now? Should I move on to another program? I really want to focus on hypertrophy now. I dont think I juiced out all my max strength gains on ICF, but strength isn't really my goal, and honestly, I have been dreading going to the gym because I am just so. bored. with my workouts.

    Do any of you have suggestions for me? here are my current main lifts:

    BB bench: 175 5x5
    Squat: 180 5x5
    OHP: 105 5x5
    Bent Over Rows: 160 5x5

    What do you think?

    Wendler 5/3/1 with higher reps for max size gains on your accessory lifts, should help out.
  • nikkib0103
    nikkib0103 Posts: 968 Member
    You look good to me right this second, to be honest. Maybe you should consult with a trainer, if you haven't already. And I need glasses. I read 6'2 as 62 and nearly fell off my chair when I saw the pictures. LOL. I almost got excited about getting old.
  • va_01
    va_01 Posts: 176 Member
    What do you guys think of this Push/Pull split?

    Push Routine A

    Bench presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Incline dumbbell presses 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Military presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Upright rows 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Barbell shrugs 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Pushdowns 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Lying extensions 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Standing calf raises 3 x 12, 10, 8
    Seated calf raises 3 x 15, 12, 10

    Pull Routine B

    Incline sit-ups 2 x 30-40
    Incline knee raises 2 x 30-40
    Squats 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Leg curls 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Wide-grip chins 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Barbell rows 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Deadlifts 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Barbell curls 3 x 10, 8, 6

    Push Routine B

    Incline presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Dumbbell bench presses 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Seated dumbbell presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Lateral raises 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Dumbbell shrugs 3 x 12, 10, 8
    Close-grip bench presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Dips 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Donkey calf raises 3 x 15, 15, 15
    Leg press calf raises 3 x 12, 10, 8

    Pull Routine B

    Hanging knee raises 2 x 20-30
    Kneeling cable crunches 2 x 20-30
    Leg presses 3 x 12, 10, 8
    Stiff-legged deadlifts 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Pulldowns 3 x 10, 8, 6
    One-arm dumbbell rows 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Hyperextensions 3 x 15
    Seated dumbbell curls 3 x 10, 8, 6

    I looked into Candito, and I worry that it's still a little too "Powerlifting" for me, as well as Wendler. I don't know, I guess I just want the aesthetics more than the strength. But maybe that's a really bad mindset to have. I'm lost and confused all over again.
  • va_01
    va_01 Posts: 176 Member
    Actually, thinking about All Pro's as well. anyone have thoughts on that routine?
  • watto1980
    watto1980 Posts: 155 Member
    edited March 2015
    That push/pull split looks like poop. If you're not enjoying ICF 5x5 I doubt you would last long doing that. All Pro's SBR would be good, it has built in progression / deloads so you wouldn't need to worry about trying to regulate this yourself as you would with the split. Just use the strength you've gained from ICF to push hard for reps on SBR. Should get good results if you stick with it.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    edited March 2015
    Sorry you're not excited by your program but that's not necessarily a reason to change it. Working out isn't about excitement but progress. You can always find another beginner program but Wendler will slow your progress. You aren't an intermediate lifter so I would stay in the beginner programs but switching all the time isn't the best idea.

    I've never used a 5x5 myself so I'm not partial to them but unless there is a good reason other than boredom then stick with it would be my advice.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,292 Member
    edited March 2015
    va_01 wrote: »
    What do you guys think of this Push/Pull split?

    Push Routine A

    Bench presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Incline dumbbell presses 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Military presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Upright rows 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Barbell shrugs 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Pushdowns 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Lying extensions 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Standing calf raises 3 x 12, 10, 8
    Seated calf raises 3 x 15, 12, 10

    Pull Routine B

    Incline sit-ups 2 x 30-40
    Incline knee raises 2 x 30-40
    Squats 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Leg curls 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Wide-grip chins 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Barbell rows 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Deadlifts 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Barbell curls 3 x 10, 8, 6

    Push Routine B

    Incline presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Dumbbell bench presses 3 x 8, 8, 6
    Seated dumbbell presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Lateral raises 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Dumbbell shrugs 3 x 12, 10, 8
    Close-grip bench presses 3 x 10, 8, 6
    Dips 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Donkey calf raises 3 x 15, 15, 15
    Leg press calf raises 3 x 12, 10, 8

    Pull Routine B

    Hanging knee raises 2 x 20-30
    Kneeling cable crunches 2 x 20-30
    Leg presses 3 x 12, 10, 8
    Stiff-legged deadlifts 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Pulldowns 3 x 10, 8, 6
    One-arm dumbbell rows 3 x 10, 8, 8
    Hyperextensions 3 x 15
    Seated dumbbell curls 3 x 10, 8, 6

    I looked into Candito, and I worry that it's still a little too "Powerlifting" for me, as well as Wendler. I don't know, I guess I just want the aesthetics more than the strength. But maybe that's a really bad mindset to have. I'm lost and confused all over again.

    Not a fan, too much volume. AND not to mention that you should not be working abs before doing deadlifts, or other compound lifts, you do not want a fatigued core when doing those exercises.