Vegan hate
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Docbanana2002 wrote: »Docbanana2002 wrote: »
I was with you until this comment. It's not your responsibility, nor will it ever be your responsibility, to make sure animal eaters "understand the pain involved." It's THAT mentality that turns people off.
I understand how that must sound, but at the same time... if someone eats animals and their products, they ARE causing pain and suffering to creatures I care dearly about. It's hard for me personally to navigate these kinds of situations socially. On the one hand, I don't want to preach at people and be rude. On the other hand, I don't know how to not speak up when I think an injustice is taking place and that others are ignorant or uncaring about it. I usually don't bring it up on the assumption that people can do their own research, but when people are saying patently ignorant things around me (like someone announcing to the dinner table that the commercial dairy industry is healthy for cows because they love that they get milked each day), I don't know how to keep my mouth shut.
Well, then that's your problem. These are problems we all have every day when we believe in and care about something. People drive me nuts with the political conversation - I chose not to engage. I personally choose to smile, nod and move on with my life, making my difference in the way that I vote.
You can make your difference in the way that you eat. Trying to pursuade people to believe in what you believe in never works and it's annoying.
It's not your responsibility to educate me. And it's condescending to assume that I (or other meat eaters) have not educated themselves.
Yes, I usually do what you do. But, to be fair... most people haven't educated themselves about where their food comes from and what is in it. I don't assume about people specifically (meaning I don't assume that you personally don't know since I don't know you) but about people in general... lots of ignorance about all sorts of things, not just animal related. Like my friend who told me he was morbidly obese because he wasn't eating enough and his body was in starvation mode and turning everything to fat, all while eating a snack in front of me that probably had 1000 calories in it. The "I want so bad to educate you, bless your heart" impulse was strong within me. I am an educator for a living (college professor) so it is is a well-ingrained impulse that I am suppressing.
Well, I know a lot about fitness, but I don't go up to obese people at McD's and start talking about how they should lift weights.
I know a lot about eating disorders, but I don't go up to skinny girls on the street and ask them if they are eating enough.
If you have an impulse to educate people to the point where you are being condescending and annoying to people who did not ask you to educate them, and you act on that impulse, then you cannot complain when people come back at you.0 -
salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
Maude was always so judgmental.0 -
paperfrost wrote: »And to consider veganism as showing discipline, one must have an inherent belief that veganism is the better way or an accomplishment in and of itself.
The inherent value is in the discipline and dedication required for the lifestyle, not the lifestyle itself. This can cause feelings of inadequacy in people who compare themselves to others. It takes a lot to make sacrifices in the process of acting on your beliefs- I'm sure many users here have been met with confrontational or aggressive behavior when they've made commitments to such concepts as a healthier lifestyle.
How is leading a vegan lifestyle any form of discipline or dedication? Most people who choose this route do so because it is what they want to do. They don't eat meat or animal products for a variety of reasons, but in the end, it is something that they want to do.
One has to be disciplined to NOT do something they want to do, like not eating that chocolate bar; or disciplined to do something that they do not want to do, like getting up every morning at the crack of dawn to work out. Dedication is continuing to do things that you don't want to do, or continuing to not do things that you want to do.
I like you.
*bro fist*0 -
salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
Maude was always so judgmental.
Hey hey hey there mister, that is Dorothy Zbornak!!!!!!
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bennettinfinity wrote: »Docbanana2002 wrote: »
I was with you until this comment. It's not your responsibility, nor will it ever be your responsibility, to make sure animal eaters "understand the pain involved." It's THAT mentality that turns people off.
I understand how that must sound, but at the same time... if someone eats animals and their products, they ARE causing pain and suffering to creatures I care dearly about. It's hard for me personally to navigate these kinds of situations socially. On the one hand, I don't want to preach at people and be rude. On the other hand, I don't know how to not speak up when I think an injustice is taking place and that others are ignorant or uncaring about it. I usually don't bring it up on the assumption that people can do their own research, but when people are saying patently ignorant things around me (like someone announcing to the dinner table that the commercial dairy industry is healthy for cows because they love that they get milked each day), I don't know how to handle that tactfully.
In my entire life, I've never had a dinner table conversation about the commercial dairy industry... I wonder how the topic came up?
It came up because I invited friends to dinner party at my house where I served vegan food (at the time I was vegetarian, transition to vegan). I was asked by someone if there was dairy in the food (she was lactose intolerant and wanted to know for her own purposes) and I said no, at which point someone launched into a soap box about the silliness of these people who cut out dairy when no harm is done and cows actually love it.
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How is leading a vegan lifestyle any form of discipline or dedication? Most people who choose this route do so because it is what they want to do. They don't eat meat or animal products for a variety of reasons, but in the end, it is something that they want to do.
One has to be disciplined to NOT do something they want to do, like not eating that chocolate bar; or disciplined to do something that they do not want to do, like getting up every morning at the crack of dawn to work out. Dedication is continuing to do things that you don't want to do, or continuing to not do things that you want to do.
If you don't think that cutting out the overwhelming majority of popular and common foods from your diet is a sacrifice, I'm afraid we won't be able to get much further in a discussion.0 -
emmydoodles83 wrote: »salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
Maude was always so judgmental.
Hey hey hey there mister, that is Dorothy Zbornak!!!!!!
I'm old.
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emmydoodles83 wrote: »salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
Maude was always so judgmental.
Hey hey hey there mister, that is Dorothy Zbornak!!!!!!
I'm old.
My hubs will be 45 in June, you are just now getting to the sophisticated sexy man stage
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salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
If you don't believe that, I'll guess you've never been on a family farm before....just typ'n.0 -
paperfrost wrote: »How is leading a vegan lifestyle any form of discipline or dedication? Most people who choose this route do so because it is what they want to do. They don't eat meat or animal products for a variety of reasons, but in the end, it is something that they want to do.
One has to be disciplined to NOT do something they want to do, like not eating that chocolate bar; or disciplined to do something that they do not want to do, like getting up every morning at the crack of dawn to work out. Dedication is continuing to do things that you don't want to do, or continuing to not do things that you want to do.
If you don't think that cutting out the overwhelming majority of popular and common foods from your diet is a sacrifice, I'm afraid we won't be able to get much further in a discussion.
I cut out McDonalds, not because it is bad for me, but because I don't like it. It's popular and common...does that make me disciplined? Dedicated?
I cut out Mr. Dew Code Red, not because I don't like it, I love the stuff, but because it's bad for me. I haven't had one in over two years.
See the difference?0 -
emmydoodles83 wrote: »emmydoodles83 wrote: »salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
Maude was always so judgmental.
Hey hey hey there mister, that is Dorothy Zbornak!!!!!!
I'm old.
My hubs will be 45 in June, you are just now getting to the sophisticated sexy man stage
*blushes*0 -
I cut out McDonalds, not because it is bad for me, but because I don't like it. It's popular and common...does that make me disciplined? Dedicated?
I cut out Mr. Dew Code Red, not because I don't like it, I love the stuff, but because it's bad for me. I haven't had one in over two years.
See the difference?
Your analogy is assuming that vegans cut out animal products from their diets over a matter of taste.0 -
paperfrost wrote: »And to consider veganism as showing discipline, one must have an inherent belief that veganism is the better way or an accomplishment in and of itself.
The inherent value is in the discipline and dedication required for the lifestyle, not the lifestyle itself. This can cause feelings of inadequacy in people who compare themselves to others. It takes a lot to make sacrifices in the process of acting on your beliefs- I'm sure many users here have been met with confrontational or aggressive behavior when they've made commitments to such concepts as a healthier lifestyle.
How is leading a vegan lifestyle any form of discipline or dedication? Most people who choose this route do so because it is what they want to do. They don't eat meat or animal products for a variety of reasons, but in the end, it is something that they want to do.
One has to be disciplined to NOT do something they want to do, like not eating that chocolate bar; or disciplined to do something that they do not want to do, like getting up every morning at the crack of dawn to work out. Dedication is continuing to do things that you don't want to do, or continuing to not do things that you want to do.
I've reached a point where I feel this way about meat, eggs, and cow's milk (they gross me out), but it took a long time. Still not there with cheese--it is discipline. I've spent my whole life liking and enjoying meat and I gave it up as an ethical choice, not because I stopped liking the taste. I didn't instantly stop craving it. I think there is a difference between wanting to do something because you believe it is right and actually finding the strength to do it despite your temptations to do otherwise. At first it was exactly like not eating the chocolate bar when I"m over on my calories or forcing myself to take an unwelcome morning run. I do all of the above because there is also a part of me that loves and values my running and enjoys the way I eat now, but it certainly took discipline to implement.0 -
paperfrost wrote: »I cut out McDonalds, not because it is bad for me, but because I don't like it. It's popular and common...does that make me disciplined? Dedicated?
I cut out Mr. Dew Code Red, not because I don't like it, I love the stuff, but because it's bad for me. I haven't had one in over two years.
See the difference?
Your argument is assuming that vegans cut out animal products from their diets over a matter of taste.
No, I'm assuming that they cut it out because of a variety of reasons; mostly because they don't like what the animals are put through. They do it because the thought of eating meat disgusts them, regardless of what their taste buds may have told them. So, in fact, they're giving something up that repulses them. That's not discipline; that's not doing something that you hate.0 -
salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
If you don't believe that, I'll guess you've never been on a family farm before....just typ'n.
And people talk about being educated...
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Fair enough, I wasn't implying that it my 'responsibility' but just that if you're choosing to be part of something, you should be educated
That's the point. It's not up to you to determine what people should, and should not, be educated about. Or to assume that meat eaters haven't educated themselves. It's that condescending attitude that turns people off...
I'm just here to point out that you tried to educate a lady on how to use the quote function here.......... I agree that she's terrible at using it, but do you even irony, bro?0 -
_incogNEATo_ wrote: »Fair enough, I wasn't implying that it my 'responsibility' but just that if you're choosing to be part of something, you should be educated
That's the point. It's not up to you to determine what people should, and should not, be educated about. Or to assume that meat eaters haven't educated themselves. It's that condescending attitude that turns people off...
I'm just here to point out that you tried to educate a lady on how to use the quote function here.......... I agree that she's terrible at using it, but do you even irony, bro?
Well, she is in a forum posting and I assume she wants people to read her posts so I was trying to help. But, fair enough.
I still don't see that as the level of annoying of a vegan lecturing a meat eater about the evils of meat eating.
Also, I'm not a bro....0 -
_Captivated_ wrote: »salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
If you don't believe that, I'll guess you've never been on a family farm before....just typ'n.
And people talk about being educated...
actually one of my moms best friends has a family farm and she knows exactly what i think of it
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salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »salembambi wrote: »_Captivated_ wrote: »My animals live very, very happy lives, they are very well cared for and I do not cause them any pain or suffering, ever. They are loved in life... and in death.
P.S. I lived the vegetarian lifestyle for 5 years.
lol
If you don't believe that, I'll guess you've never been on a family farm before....just typ'n.
And people talk about being educated...
actually one of my moms best friends has a family farm and she knows exactly what i think of it
So, than you don't like people taking care of their animals?0 -
No, I'm assuming that they cut it out because of a variety of reasons; mostly because they don't like what the animals are put through. They do it because the thought of eating meat disgusts them, regardless of what their taste buds may have told them. So, in fact, they're giving something up that repulses them. That's not discipline; that's not doing something that you hate.
Your analogy argued that a food that you did not want (McDonalds), if removed from your diet, could not be considered dedication/discipline.
I personally am repulsed by the treatment of animals in factory farms, but I choose not to think of it as I'm enjoying my yogurt. I have the utmost respect for people who act on their beliefs and choose not to endorse practices they disagree with.
Ultimately I have to move along with my day, so I'll be heading off. Take care!0
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