"Asking if I've lost weight isn't a compliment"
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"I finally stopped worrying about the kilos and focused on just being happy and healthy. I don't know what I weigh anymore, but I do know what I'm worth."
This is an OXYMORON. By not weighing yourself, and being "satisfied" with being obese, your are NOT being healthy.
I am an overweight physician, and as a man, I see no problem with someone asking me that. My main issue with this article is actually the focus of a campaign by my health network (my employer) to "know your numbers." I think it is reasonable to not want people to comment on your appearance, I get that. But, that being said, you SHOULD weigh yourself. There is a direct correlation between obesity and poor health that transcends body image and public perceptions of what is health and not healthy. I have also tried the mindset of not weighing myself - my conclusion - DENIAL is a powerful force.
Please take the effort to weigh yourself and "know your numbers" - your health depends on it. I also don't really care what you look like, and want you to feel good, but those extra pounds of fat translate directly to hypertension and diabetes which eventually lead to heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure and death. Do not fool yourself that it is otherwise. Our society is remarkably dysfunctional, that does not mean that you have to be too.0 -
Its more like a fat acceptance article. Im sorry I don't really buy the I know im fat and I love it stuff. Yes you can try to accept it and give up on the fact it will never change (until you wake up one day). Learn to love the skin you are in and love the plus size clothes (which are never cute btw) but seriously? I in my own life tried that but was I really happy being fat? Um no! I've been fat since 8 so I know what shes saying. I thought well if im fat I might as well accept it, right? Well I tried. I tried to be like the 600 lb woman who loves her rolls and all and did the pictures and all. Well I could not. I did not like my fat hanging or slapping as I walked, or getting sores, or not being able to walk a half mile. Or even be able to wipe myself! No that I don't know how anyone can be happy with so I think its bull.
So tell me how do you get offended if a person asks you if you lost weight? Omg that is a compliment seriously! It may not be anyones place to comment on your body but come on be real! They commented on it when you were fat (you just may not have known) people are gonna comment on a noticeable difference sooner or later.
Personally it is how the person says it is really what matters but also how you take it bc we often misinterpreted a compliment here and there. My m.i.l is one of those people without a filter so you learn not every thing is meant to be insulting.
I like when someone has noticed my loss like recently "youve lost weight haven't you? Like 40 lbs?" No not 40 but thanks. Or another person said wow you walk alot of miles, don't you? How much? I see you walk everyday it must be alot! " well thanks for noticing! I don't walk every day but I try to, at leadt 2 miles a day. I am working up to walk a 25 mile march! "Wow do you think you can do it?!" Yes! I can do anything I put my mind to!
And ive been so happy having lost weight, building strength anf confidence something I never had being " the fat girl" or "big boned" or "curvy"0 -
I love it when someone compliments my weight loss! I realize I didn't look good when I was 75 pounds heavier, I knew it then and know it now. They're not telling me anything I don't know.0
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Oh, I think they have looked at it very closely. There's a growing tendency here to label things as "common sense" -- common sense gun control, common sense immigration reform, common sense tax reform -- because, hey, who's against common sense? It seems that the more indefensible something is, the more likely it is to be labeled "common sense." It's a way of trying to frame the issue so as to be able to dismiss any opponents as crackpots who are against common sense, and thereby avoid the sticky business of actually defending a position by trying to shut off debate as unnecessary. It's sort of a passive-aggressive ad hominem, really, to the extent it doesn't shut people up in the first place.PeachyCarol wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because it's not about health at any size; it's about rationalization and framing the issue to make anyone who disagrees look bad. It's similar to showing how tolerant you are by shouting down as a bigot anyone who disagrees with your worldview. It's Newspeak in real life.PeachyCarol wrote: »I had a random thought this morning... given the underlying vitriol in the piece that seemed to stem from the HAES framework, I'm confused by something. If the battlecry is Health At ANY Size, why is there no respect for people like me who chose to benefit from weight reduction for medical reasons?
I tend to agree, but I doubt that its proponents examine their side of things closely enough to see things that way.
So, if you're against health at any size, you're clearly a loon who can and should be dismissed because you hate health. People who hate health should have no voice. It doesn't matter whether you really hate health; what matters is framing the issue. Again, I think they've made the very specific effort to try to avoid having to defend the actual content of the ideas by naming the ideas in certain ways.
I think you're giving too much credit here for self-awareness in the thinking though. I agree with your analysis, but I think there's a lot of denial in that kind of thinking, though the end result is the same.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because it's not about health at any size; it's about rationalization and framing the issue to make anyone who disagrees look bad. It's similar to showing how tolerant you are by shouting down as a bigot anyone who disagrees with your worldview. It's Newspeak in real life.PeachyCarol wrote: »I had a random thought this morning... given the underlying vitriol in the piece that seemed to stem from the HAES framework, I'm confused by something. If the battlecry is Health At ANY Size, why is there no respect for people like me who chose to benefit from weight reduction for medical reasons?
I tend to agree, but I doubt that its proponents examine their side of things closely enough to see things that way.
I had a poke around a few sites this morning. Contrary to a few assertions posted upthread, I did not see an emphasis on healthy food at all. I saw an emphasis on choosing food you liked, and allowing for what you wanted and a whole bunch of honoring your body and stuff like that.
Another thing I found disturbing was the link to the mindful eating movement. A lot of overweight people have BROKEN hunger signals due to emotional and deeply ingrained behavioral issues which could be corrected, and ... hey, it's okay to just HONOR them? Total BS.
I would love if the HAES movement actually worked like it was described upthread. It has not been the practical case for me when I have come across it. I do believe that society in general devalues people of size and also puts some baseless assumptions upon them. A heavy person is not worth less, but they are valued less. It is also a common perception that heavy people are lazy or disgusting or what have you. If HAES spent time confronting those ideals, I'd be much more supportive of the movement.
However what I see is a total turn back in the other direction. I have seen many many HAES websites that say that if you are losing weight that you are abusing and traumatizing your body. That is BS to me. If you are losing weight in an unhealthy way...sure, but if not then...yeah, no.
There is also a pretty common thread that those who are overweight and lose weight only do it because of societal pressure. While I do think I am more attractive when I am at a healthy weight, I am losing weight for health, both physical and mental.
I'd have a lot more respect for HAES if they actually respected people of all size, not just those who help their movement.
Yeah, that's sort of the vibe I was picking up poking around a bit.
It's one thing to fight fat shaming and urge people of a certain size to adopt healthy habits, it's quite another to radicalize fatness.
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cparsons_60 wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »The writer is waaaaaaay overthinking the issue. "Have you lost weight" is just an observation (unless they're being sarcastic). At my heaviest, I'd get asked every now and then by people I hadn't seen in a while if I had lost weight. I hadn't, though they insisted that I had, but it was nice, for me, to think that for whatever reason, I didn't look like a big fat pig that day, or at least, as much of a big fat pig as usual. It was GOOD for my self image. If the writer has such a problem with her weight that even compliments sound like insults, then that is HER problem. She is devaluing HERSELF because of her weight and projecting her negativity onto other people. She either needs to get over it if she doesn't want to do anything about it, or she needs to pop on over to MFP and start herself a profile.
No, the author has separated her self worth from her weight and is bothered when it seems other people view anything positive or negative in terms of weight only. She concentrates on being happier and healthier, and therefore dresses better and takes more care to look good which helps her feel good. She thinks she has if anything probably gained a little weight, and she's ok with that. When people say, "You've lost weight, haven't you?" instead of "Wow, you look great in that color/style," or "That haircut really suits you," she feels as though the only currency for compliments is weight loss, and that's not a currency she possesses or values.
I've lost nearly 60 pounds, and people who haven't seen me in awhile usually mention it, and I'm fine with it. But there are people I see every week at church, people with whom I used to have genuinely interesting conversations. Now they greet me just about every Sunday with some version of, "Wow, you've really lost weight." It's just tedious, I haven't lost weight since last Sunday, can't we talk about the sermon or your grandchildren or ANYTHING REAL???
Someone who identifies to the public as a "fat lady" as though it's a major part of herself as a human being is definitely putting value on size. When she takes a perfectly innocent comment and turns it into a devaluation, she is the one creating the devaluation. If she wore a slimming outfit that made it look like she lost weight, then that's what it looks like. It has nothing to do with how she is valued as a human being. It's a simple observation. She is an accomplished individual. She should be proud of herself instead of seeing everything as a dig because of her obvious low self esteem.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Just wait for the mindful seeing movement where everyone casts down their glasses and millions die in car crashes.PeachyCarol wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because it's not about health at any size; it's about rationalization and framing the issue to make anyone who disagrees look bad. It's similar to showing how tolerant you are by shouting down as a bigot anyone who disagrees with your worldview. It's Newspeak in real life.PeachyCarol wrote: »I had a random thought this morning... given the underlying vitriol in the piece that seemed to stem from the HAES framework, I'm confused by something. If the battlecry is Health At ANY Size, why is there no respect for people like me who chose to benefit from weight reduction for medical reasons?
I tend to agree, but I doubt that its proponents examine their side of things closely enough to see things that way.
I had a poke around a few sites this morning. Contrary to a few assertions posted upthread, I did not see an emphasis on healthy food at all. I saw an emphasis on choosing food you liked, and allowing for what you wanted and a whole bunch of honoring your body and stuff like that.
Another thing I found disturbing was the link to the mindful eating movement. A lot of overweight people have BROKEN hunger signals due to emotional and deeply ingrained behavioral issues which could be corrected, and ... hey, it's okay to just HONOR them? Total BS.
And the "healthy at any number of packs per day" movement.
As a person who can't even see her alarm clock when it's 6 inches from her face, this totally cracked me up.
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It's not an issue of social skills as much as plain old manners. One of the reasons you don't talk about people losing weight is that it may be because they're sick. The other big one would be that it's just wildly inappropriate to walk up to someone and start talking about their body.It feels like sometimes people want everyone to just sit still and if you do engage in conversation don't discuss anything other than the weather or other neutral topics.
Because heaven forbide you touch on a unpleasant or embarrassing topic.
People say that asking about weight etc shows poor social skills, seems like not being able to handle a touchy subject is the real lack of social skills.
I imagine for most people losing weight is a positive thing, they aimed to lose weight, get healthier and if they achieve it then why can't people compliment them.
Should we eliminate entire topics from discussion just because some people may have lost weight for bad reasons like illness?
If that's the case we can't talk about people's children since they might be sick, we can't talk about their friends or family in case one is sick or dying, don't even ask about sports in case their team lost on the weekend. Don't ask how they are going even if they look sad or depressed cause you might get a bad response or rub salt in a wound. Don't congratulate someone for getting a first aid certificate in case they don't renew it when it expires.
So are people too sensitive? Assuming the worst of people, thinking compliments are backhanded insults?
Most of us have eyes, are very visual so why is physical appearance such a sore area. What will you notice first, a new hair cut, losing 20kg or a change to your personality or intellect? Got to start the conversation somewhere?
Wonder how much flack I'll get for this.
It's much easier when everyone follows the same guidelines. When people do what we are seeing here, with everyone making up their own set of rules and demanding that the rest of the world behave their way and making themselves the arbiters of what is and isn't okay...it doesn't work. You end up with a bunch of pissed off people. A bunch of people being offensive, maybe without meaning to be, and a bunch of people being offended, maybe without the right to be.
When everyone follows the guidelines, nobody has to ask the questions you ask because everyone already knows the answers. No offense is taken where it wasn't intended, etc. It's just easier.
So you're okay being the arbiter. LOL.
Do you realize even different cultures vary on what's an acceptable topic of conversation?
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LyndseyLovesToLift wrote: »On one hand, it's annoying when people take offense to everything people say. Get over yourself.
On the other hand, I don't think anyone should be making comments about other people's bodies. However, if it's meant as a compliment, and it's the thought that counts, it's really not worth getting worked up about it.
When I get comments like, "you're so tiny" or "you're so skinny," I just smile with that polite little half-laugh thing and go about my business. I prefer getting comments like, "you look strong" or "you look fit," but we can't pick and choose what compliments people are giving us. The comments that bother me are, "you're getting too skinny - you need to stop" or "you're looking awfully thin...are you healthy?" or "oh, so you decided to eat today?" These comments are just ignorant and misinformed. I eat plenty, I'm at a healthy weight for my height, and I'm no longer seeking to lose weight. However, I wouldn't write an article about it. In the end, who the hell cares? Just brush it off.
Regarding this remark, not to single out your post, but it's been said a lot in this thread. I'd like to offer a different perspective.
My nephew was born without one of his hands. He actually prefers if people ask him about it to people just sort of furtively staring.
One day, when he was little, we were with the kids at a local nature center, and a woman was there. She had no arm. We walked up, introduced ourselves and during the course of the conversation asked how she lost it. She told us, my sister told her the doctor's theory on my my nephew didn't have a hand, and the woman gave him some tips on tying his shoes. She then thanked us for asking about it.
Sometimes, it can be okay to ask.
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I love the amount of slippery slope in this thread.
Apparently one woman asks people to consider she that some people don't want to talk about their weight, including using it as a compliment, and the results are: we're all going to car crash, cancel all holidays, and possibly have immigrants come take our guns away in the night.
Could anyone tell me where the author asked this become some kind of national law, that we can't say "have you lost weight" to people without 90+ days in a gulag? I really missed that part of the article.0 -
I'd agree that the "rank and file" follower isn't necessarily doing much examination, but I think the people in the forefront definitely are. I think it's being framed a certain way and it's not an accident. Now, maybe there's some denial in why they want to promote the particular ideology, but once that decision is made, it's promoted very specifically.PeachyCarol wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Oh, I think they have looked at it very closely. There's a growing tendency here to label things as "common sense" -- common sense gun control, common sense immigration reform, common sense tax reform -- because, hey, who's against common sense? It seems that the more indefensible something is, the more likely it is to be labeled "common sense." It's a way of trying to frame the issue so as to be able to dismiss any opponents as crackpots who are against common sense, and thereby avoid the sticky business of actually defending a position by trying to shut off debate as unnecessary. It's sort of a passive-aggressive ad hominem, really, to the extent it doesn't shut people up in the first place.PeachyCarol wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Because it's not about health at any size; it's about rationalization and framing the issue to make anyone who disagrees look bad. It's similar to showing how tolerant you are by shouting down as a bigot anyone who disagrees with your worldview. It's Newspeak in real life.PeachyCarol wrote: »I had a random thought this morning... given the underlying vitriol in the piece that seemed to stem from the HAES framework, I'm confused by something. If the battlecry is Health At ANY Size, why is there no respect for people like me who chose to benefit from weight reduction for medical reasons?
I tend to agree, but I doubt that its proponents examine their side of things closely enough to see things that way.
So, if you're against health at any size, you're clearly a loon who can and should be dismissed because you hate health. People who hate health should have no voice. It doesn't matter whether you really hate health; what matters is framing the issue. Again, I think they've made the very specific effort to try to avoid having to defend the actual content of the ideas by naming the ideas in certain ways.
I think you're giving too much credit here for self-awareness in the thinking though. I agree with your analysis, but I think there's a lot of denial in that kind of thinking, though the end result is the same.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Kennethxyz wrote: »I'm from europe and would have SO much trouble with my social skills in the US (to me) you are offended over some very confusing things.
If asked in europe about weightloss, most people would take it as a compliment.
Most people in the US do too.
It's just that's not interesting to talk about, so the outliers get the attention.
I do think a lot of this is that there are competing ideas about what's socially acceptable--some think it's rude not to notice and comment on something like a new haircut or weight loss, while others think it's rude to comment. I've posted about how the most off comments I've received about weight loss (the did you have WLS one, among others) were from our Polish cleaning woman at work, and I just assumed it was different cultural ideas about etiquette and no big thing. She perhaps thought my reluctance to talk much about it and refusal to say precisely how much I've lost was weird.
Given that most of us probably live in places where there are competing ideas about social etiquette, I think the thing to do is to do your own best not to offend others (again, why I am happy to say "happy holidays," as I know lots of people I interact with are not Christian and do not celebrate Christmas) and also not to get needlessly offended by people who mean well (and this is why I'm happy to be wished a happy specific holiday I don't celebrate or be told I look great after losing weight and also understand why many people will never mention my weight). I think it's good manners to try and treat others as they would like to be treated (and that means ma'aming those who prefer it and not using ma'am with those who dislike it, if you know), but is generally rude to make a big thing of being offended when you know or should know it was meant well. Much of the time that seems intended to be a show of power or passive aggressive behavior or simply to hurt or belittle someone else.
+100000000000
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Can you tell me where anyone asserted that the author did so, rather than simply disagreeing with her?I love the amount of slippery slope in this thread.
Apparently one woman asks people to consider she that some people don't want to talk about their weight, including using it as a compliment, and the results are: we're all going to car crash, cancel all holidays, and possibly have immigrants come take our guns away in the night.
Could anyone tell me where the author asked this become some kind of national law, that we can't say "have you lost weight" to people without 90+ days in a gulag? I really missed that part of the article.
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After the whole HAES 'print out' for the doctor that was linked a few weeks ago that included a staunch refusal to be weighed I have zero respect for the movement truly believing in health. :noway:0
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I LOVE it when people notice I've lost weight. In fact, if someone that I hadn't seen in a long time DIDN'T mention it I would wonder why!0
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Can I quote in here where people have used slippery slope and complained about "we can't say merry christmas" because of this? Can I quote where people have asked endless where this is going to end, and soon we won't be able to do "X"? Yeah, I can, but maybe we're not reading the same thread.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Can you tell me where anyone asserted that the author did so, rather than simply disagreeing with her?I love the amount of slippery slope in this thread.
Apparently one woman asks people to consider she that some people don't want to talk about their weight, including using it as a compliment, and the results are: we're all going to car crash, cancel all holidays, and possibly have immigrants come take our guns away in the night.
Could anyone tell me where the author asked this become some kind of national law, that we can't say "have you lost weight" to people without 90+ days in a gulag? I really missed that part of the article.
You in particular were the one that brought up how the HAES common sense calls are like using the term common sense for gun control, and immigration reform. There's a metric ton of slippery slope.0 -
PrizePopple wrote: »After the whole HAES 'print out' for the doctor that was linked a few weeks ago that included a staunch refusal to be weighed I have zero respect for the movement truly believing in health. :noway:
I missed that one.
Nevermind, I don't need to see it.
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I love the amount of slippery slope in this thread.
Apparently one woman asks people to consider she that some people don't want to talk about their weight, including using it as a compliment, and the results are: we're all going to car crash, cancel all holidays, and possibly have immigrants come take our guns away in the night.
Could anyone tell me where the author asked this become some kind of national law, that we can't say "have you lost weight" to people without 90+ days in a gulag? I really missed that part of the article.
Because there's a movement out there. Some of us are guessing she's part of it, going by her rhetoric. We're countering the arguments they make.
The problem with your argument is that any idea in its genesis can gain traction and take hold and shape how people, as a society behave over time. Most of the time, this is a good thing, look at the changing attitudes towards homosexuality and minorities, for example.
There's nothing wrong with the fight to stigmatize fat shaming, but I think some of its proponents take things too far. The article writer is one of them.
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"I finally stopped worrying about the kilos and focused on just being happy and healthy. I don't know what I weigh anymore, but I do know what I'm worth."
This is an OXYMORON. By not weighing yourself, and being "satisfied" with being obese, your are NOT being healthy.
At what point in this statement does she say she is obese? Maybe she is. Maybe not. But you are ASSUMING she is. I know lots of weightlifters who don't care or know about their actual weight. It is all their appearance and strength.
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