Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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Newbie to this thread! Lost 12lbs and now at a happy weight of 122lbs (I'm 5 ft 3 by the way). I really need to tone my butt and legs as they're still quite large compared to my waist. Trying to find a new workout plan so if you can recommend one - please do. I have no gym access and only 2 x 2kg weights! Holiday is 12 weeks away so if I can make some changes by then I'd be over the moon. Thank you
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katiejanecollins wrote: »Newbie to this thread! Lost 12lbs and now at a happy weight of 122lbs (I'm 5 ft 3 by the way). I really need to tone my butt and legs as they're still quite large compared to my waist. Trying to find a new workout plan so if you can recommend one - please do. I have no gym access and only 2 x 2kg weights! Holiday is 12 weeks away so if I can make some changes by then I'd be over the moon. Thank you
Look into bodyweight exercises, because 4 kg of weight total is most likely not going to cut it, since it doesn't allow for progressive overload.
Furthermore, recomp is a long progress, so you might only see little changes in 12 weeks.
It also sounds like you are a natural pear shape. I hope you know you can't spot reduce fat, only decrease overall bodyfat and hope it comes off your hips. By the way, you do know toning is not a real thing right? You should check out the toning thread that's currently in the exercise sub forum.
Good bodyweight programs:
- nerdfitness beginners bodyweight routine
- You are your own gym
- Convict conditioning
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I wanted to give a quick update since first reading this thread and starting a recomp a little over 2 months ago. I have stayed the same weight but lost a jeans size! My lifts are also finally improving with more calories. I have been taking progress pictures and I haven't noticed a real difference in them, but I can see slow changes in the mirror.
My question today is...why is the rest of the internet so anti-recomp? I visit several other forums (such as bodybuilding.com) and everyone keeps saying bulk/cut is the way too go and that recomps are ineffective. This thread was really the first place I found positive info on recomp. I'm still on board to keep working on a recomp because I hate cutting. I'm just wondering why so few people seem to have positive recomp success stories.1 -
My thoughts, people don't generally have the patience and I count myself as one. A recomp takes confidence and willingness to stay the course for months rather than weeks to see even a hint of results. When cutting you see the scale move and muscles become defined, bulking yields PRs and more food, quicker positive reinforcement of the process.My question today is...why is the rest of the internet so anti-recomp?
I was trying to recomp and wanted to be leaner faster so I decided to cut.
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This guy seems to have a very large channel on youtube.com. Not sure that actually means anything but he's a physical therapist and seems to be very knowledgeable. In any case he seems to think you can build muscle mass while reducing fat and makes it sound like it's just as fast as bulk and cut cycles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3AG-oCXTE
I just started my recomp and have actually had my BF measured with a DEXA scan. I plan on having another scan in December so I'll be able to see how much my body has recomped in 5 months (if any). At that point I'll reevaluate my situation. I might just try a bulk and cut cycle to see how those results compare to the recomp.0 -
I hae two issues with that vid.
The first is something I've run into before online, there seems to be no concensus if you need to eat defecit, maintenance or surplus for a recomp.
Does anyone have a good source on this? Preferably scientific?
The second is the whole quality proteine and lean muscle.
Proteine is proteine and muscle is muscle, correct?0 -
My understanding is that for a recomp you eat at maintenance. At a deficit you'd be cutting and at a surplus you'd be bulking.
There are various type of proteins, some proteins are fast absorbing, some slow, some have all the amino acids, some none or much less. I have no idea if any of those differences actually affect muscle growth or if it's just marketing hype.
I believe that when he eludes to lean muscle he's insinuating that you're not gaining fat as in a traditional bulk. In a bulk you always gain muscle and fat at the same time.
I agree, it would be SO much easier if there was a clear cut scientific study that would just settle this for everyone.0 -
My understanding is that for a recomp you eat at maintenance. At a deficit you'd be cutting and at a surplus you'd be bulking.
There are various type of proteins, some proteins are fast absorbing, some slow, some have all the amino acids, some none or much less. I have no idea if any of those differences actually affect muscle growth or if it's just marketing hype.
I believe that when he eludes to lean muscle he's insinuating that you're not gaining fat as in a traditional bulk. In a bulk you always gain muscle and fat at the same time.
I agree, it would be SO much easier if there was a clear cut scientific study that would just settle this for everyone.
Calorie wise that is what I'd think too, but this thread is the only place I've seen that says eat maintainance. And since I'm not willing to eat surplus or defecit, that is what I will try.
I really should look into all that proteine stuff, well that and nutrition and muscles in general. I wish there was like a good online course on the biology of this... If anyone knows of one let me know.0 -
My understanding is that for a recomp you eat at maintenance. At a deficit you'd be cutting and at a surplus you'd be bulking.
There are various type of proteins, some proteins are fast absorbing, some slow, some have all the amino acids, some none or much less. I have no idea if any of those differences actually affect muscle growth or if it's just marketing hype.
I believe that when he eludes to lean muscle he's insinuating that you're not gaining fat as in a traditional bulk. In a bulk you always gain muscle and fat at the same time.
I agree, it would be SO much easier if there was a clear cut scientific study that would just settle this for everyone.
Calorie wise that is what I'd think too, but this thread is the only place I've seen that says eat maintainance. And since I'm not willing to eat surplus or defecit, that is what I will try.
I really should look into all that proteine stuff, well that and nutrition and muscles in general. I wish there was like a good online course on the biology of this... If anyone knows of one let me know.
If you're really interested I would recommend getting an old version of a biology text book for nutrition majors. Sometimes you can grab one for a few bucks on Amazon. I will take a look through my old texts and see if there is a good breakdown on sports nutrition in any of them.
FWIW-I have recomped in the past and kept it right around maintenance. I would inevitably do a small cut-but recomp worked for sure. I stayed within a 3-lb range and went down numerous pants sizes.0 -
Here's an Eric Helms video talking about the difference between a surplus and deficit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5bFy_WHYLI&index=2&list=PLYdkxp9hJ4i7KsYsAnNBrtRvEIop6fLlp
His whole "Peeling Back a Layer" playlist is gold.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PLYdkxp9hJ4i7KsYsAnNBrtRvEIop6fLlp
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I found this site that explains the various varieties of proteins. They are selling vegetable protein powders so there's a definite slant on the as you can see that all the animal varieties of proteins cause some sort of allergic reaction. The actual facts about proteins seem to be accurate.
http://www.nutribodyprotein.com/protein-types.php
I've also looked at ExRx.com http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Protein.html
If anyone else has a good reference please let me know.0 -
Another site I found that has good information on nutrition and supplementation. It's regarding natural body builders getting ready for competition. Since it's a government website I thought that the information was less likely to be biased than most of the public sites that are pushing their agenda. It's a long read but very informative.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4033492/0 -
Question.... does lifting weights have the talked about 24 hour calorie burn?
I have heard it is good to weight lift b.c you will burn calories all day from it and I have heard that it is not enough to even consider.
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My understanding is that the actual act of lifting weights only minimally increases how much you burn afterwards. The benefit comes from building more muscle which require more calories to maintain.
HIIT type training is said to continue burning calories long after and at a higher rate.0 -
Thanks @_benjammin !!! Just watched all six. They're great!0
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Great info here. Just hit goal weight from 130 to 122. MFP changed my calories from 1200 to 1960. Seems like a lot. I plan on slowly increasing my calories and seeing how it goes. New goal is to decrease body fat (currently around 24%) and increase strength/muscle doing primarily weights, strength training.
Will definitely continue following this, thanks!0 -
katiejanecollins wrote: »Newbie to this thread! Lost 12lbs and now at a happy weight of 122lbs (I'm 5 ft 3 by the way). I really need to tone my butt and legs as they're still quite large compared to my waist. Trying to find a new workout plan so if you can recommend one - please do. I have no gym access and only 2 x 2kg weights! Holiday is 12 weeks away so if I can make some changes by then I'd be over the moon. Thank you
Look into bodyweight exercises, because 4 kg of weight total is most likely not going to cut it, since it doesn't allow for progressive overload.
Furthermore, recomp is a long progress, so you might only see little changes in 12 weeks.
It also sounds like you are a natural pear shape. I hope you know you can't spot reduce fat, only decrease overall bodyfat and hope it comes off your hips. By the way, you do know toning is not a real thing right? You should check out the toning thread that's currently in the exercise sub forum.
Good bodyweight programs:
- nerdfitness beginners bodyweight routine
- You are your own gym
- Convict conditioning
I definitely need to invest in heavier weights! Will research more into "toning" as I wasn't aware it wasn't a real thing. Thanks for those. Really struggle to follow any program except the Kayla Itsines BBG for some reason. I like her one but worried it's too cardio based.0 -
katiejanecollins wrote: »katiejanecollins wrote: »Newbie to this thread! Lost 12lbs and now at a happy weight of 122lbs (I'm 5 ft 3 by the way). I really need to tone my butt and legs as they're still quite large compared to my waist. Trying to find a new workout plan so if you can recommend one - please do. I have no gym access and only 2 x 2kg weights! Holiday is 12 weeks away so if I can make some changes by then I'd be over the moon. Thank you
Look into bodyweight exercises, because 4 kg of weight total is most likely not going to cut it, since it doesn't allow for progressive overload.
Furthermore, recomp is a long progress, so you might only see little changes in 12 weeks.
It also sounds like you are a natural pear shape. I hope you know you can't spot reduce fat, only decrease overall bodyfat and hope it comes off your hips. By the way, you do know toning is not a real thing right? You should check out the toning thread that's currently in the exercise sub forum.
Good bodyweight programs:
- nerdfitness beginners bodyweight routine
- You are your own gym
- Convict conditioning
I definitely need to invest in heavier weights! Will research more into "toning" as I wasn't aware it wasn't a real thing. Thanks for those. Really struggle to follow any program except the Kayla Itsines BBG for some reason. I like her one but worried it's too cardio based.
Here's the thread on toning https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10229692/toning-is-a-deception
I found it quite insightful, and made me kinda hate the fitness industry..0 -
katiejanecollins wrote: »katiejanecollins wrote: »Newbie to this thread! Lost 12lbs and now at a happy weight of 122lbs (I'm 5 ft 3 by the way). I really need to tone my butt and legs as they're still quite large compared to my waist. Trying to find a new workout plan so if you can recommend one - please do. I have no gym access and only 2 x 2kg weights! Holiday is 12 weeks away so if I can make some changes by then I'd be over the moon. Thank you
Look into bodyweight exercises, because 4 kg of weight total is most likely not going to cut it, since it doesn't allow for progressive overload.
Furthermore, recomp is a long progress, so you might only see little changes in 12 weeks.
It also sounds like you are a natural pear shape. I hope you know you can't spot reduce fat, only decrease overall bodyfat and hope it comes off your hips. By the way, you do know toning is not a real thing right? You should check out the toning thread that's currently in the exercise sub forum.
Good bodyweight programs:
- nerdfitness beginners bodyweight routine
- You are your own gym
- Convict conditioning
I definitely need to invest in heavier weights! Will research more into "toning" as I wasn't aware it wasn't a real thing. Thanks for those. Really struggle to follow any program except the Kayla Itsines BBG for some reason. I like her one but worried it's too cardio based.
Here's the thread on toning https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10229692/toning-is-a-deception
I found it quite insightful, and made me kinda hate the fitness industry..
That's an interesting top post on that thread! I see it slightly differently now...0 -
My understanding is that the actual act of lifting weights only minimally increases how much you burn afterwards. The benefit comes from building more muscle which require more calories to maintain.
HIIT type training is said to continue burning calories long after and at a higher rate.
@Giolis
Both these two things are pretty much myths unfortunately - for practical purposes.
The calorie burn from muscle at rest (the body maintaining muscle tissue) is minimal so adding a few pounds of muscle is totally irrelevant, it's activity and exercise that makes the difference.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dissecting-the-energy-needs-of-the-body-research-review.html
HIIT type training does have a larger EPOC than low level steady state cardio exercise but it's potentially a larger proportion of a much smaller number. Real HIIT is very short duration and that time also includes recovery time - it just isn't a big calorie burner.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-versus-intervals-and-epoc-practical-application.html/
Train to progress your fitness, strength, hypertrophy and sporting goals not some irrelevant calorie burning advantage.1 -
My understanding is that the actual act of lifting weights only minimally increases how much you burn afterwards. The benefit comes from building more muscle which require more calories to maintain.
HIIT type training is said to continue burning calories long after and at a higher rate.
@Giolis
Both these two things are pretty much myths unfortunately - for practical purposes.
The calorie burn from muscle at rest (the body maintaining muscle tissue) is minimal so adding a few pounds of muscle is totally irrelevant, it's activity and exercise that makes the difference.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dissecting-the-energy-needs-of-the-body-research-review.html
HIIT type training does have a larger EPOC than low level steady state cardio exercise but it's potentially a larger proportion of a much smaller number. Real HIIT is very short duration and that time also includes recovery time - it just isn't a big calorie burner.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-versus-intervals-and-epoc-practical-application.html/
Train to progress your fitness, strength, hypertrophy and sporting goals not some irrelevant calorie burning advantage.
I really wish the fitness industry would step back and objectively consider something before jumping on the bandwagon. Yes, hiit can be beneficial, but I saw much more consistent progress when I added liss cardio back into my program.
The bolded is great advice.0 -
FitStrongHealthy wrote: »This is all really helpful information (even though I haven't completely read through the whole thread yet), that I intend to look back on for future use.
I just wanted to share my journey so far as well.
I'm currently only 3 and half months in to my recomp, so I'm still learning what is going to work best for me, but I have seen some small results. I measure every two weeks and weigh myself daily to monitor fluctuations, but I only record it (on MFP) once a month. My only means to measure BF% is based on my measurements, which I know isn't accurate but it's the best I have for now, plus I believe the average I have is pretty close (and I can't afford to pay for a more accurate measure).
Close to the end of February (when I first decided to do a recomp) my stats were: waist-26.5, hips-35, neck-13.5, thighs-20, arms(biceps)-9, and weight-111. Estimated BF: 22.3 - 23%
By the end of March my stats were: waist-25, hips-34, neck-13, thighs-19, arms-9, and weight-110. Estimated BF: 21.5 - 22%
Currently my stats (measured 5/31/15) are: waist-25, hips-32, neck-12, thighs-19, arms-10.5, and weight 109.5. Estimated BF: 19.5 - 21%
I have been noticing slight up and down trends in my biweekly measurements and based on my daily weigh ins I'm fluctuating between 108-110.5lbs (5'0" BTW). I'd like to be closer to 105 but I actually don't mind being at the weight I'm at now though.
I literally started at the very bottom when I started lifting (only 5 to 10 lb weights, I know I was weak) but I've slowly progressed and I'm happy to say that I'm lifting 20-25 lbs more now and continuing to progress every few weeks.
Ok, well I'm going to go back to the beginning now and start taking some notes. Again great thread, thanks @usmcmp for creating this.
I just discovered this thread!
@FitStrongHealthy Just read your post and it inspired me!
I'm 5'1" 107lbs and I just started strength training w/ my husband.
At 107lbs I think I'm done losing weight but I still have some flab on my tummy butt and thighs that I want to get rid of.
I'm so weak right now, currently lifting 5 - 7.5lb weights.
And although I was trying to think positive , that I will progress, I was still a bit doubtful.
Now I feel a lot more confident that if I keep at it I will improve!
Thanks for your post!0 -
Doreen, I was having the same problem you are having (lifting heavier--couldn't get past the 20 lb BB mark w/bi curls, 5 lb on lat raises, etc.); so I switched how I lifted. Try upping your sets (along w/a heavier weight) to 4 (vs. 3) and dropping your reps to 4 (even if you can only to one or two reps keep at it). I can now do 4 sets of 3-4 reps w/30 lb BB (which I could barely lift before) and lat raises w/9 lb. I switched up my routine at the beginning of Aug (lowered the sets back to 3 and the reps back up to 10); doing what is called HIET (High Intensity Explosive Training); basically doing your reps as fast as you can while keeping good form. For Sep I plan on returning back to 4 sets, 4 reps and heavier weights. I started recomp in July and am noticing some changes (slow but sure); so not sure the results at the end of three months (we shall see). My diary is open for viewing. Good luck.
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My understanding is that the actual act of lifting weights only minimally increases how much you burn afterwards. The benefit comes from building more muscle which require more calories to maintain.
HIIT type training is said to continue burning calories long after and at a higher rate.
@Giolis
Both these two things are pretty much myths unfortunately - for practical purposes.
The calorie burn from muscle at rest (the body maintaining muscle tissue) is minimal so adding a few pounds of muscle is totally irrelevant, it's activity and exercise that makes the difference.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dissecting-the-energy-needs-of-the-body-research-review.html
HIIT type training does have a larger EPOC than low level steady state cardio exercise but it's potentially a larger proportion of a much smaller number. Real HIIT is very short duration and that time also includes recovery time - it just isn't a big calorie burner.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-versus-intervals-and-epoc-practical-application.html/
Train to progress your fitness, strength, hypertrophy and sporting goals not some irrelevant calorie burning advantage.
@sijomial
Totally agree with you!
I was by no means endorsing any of them for their calorie burning benefits. I was hoping the use of the word "minimally" would reflect that. I'm a firm believer that your diet is where you manage your calories and that exercise is for fitness. Any side benefit of extra calories burned just means I can have a beer with my dinner.0 -
I'm not training to lose weight (already done that); that's why I decided to recomp. Goal is to lose some more body fat (just a few percentage points and increase my muscle mass. But you're right, exercise really does not help in the weight loss game; it's mainly to increase your fitness and make changes to your body (weight lifting). Goal of recomp is to lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time (vs. bulk/cut).0
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I hae two issues with that vid.
The first is something I've run into before online, there seems to be no concensus if you need to eat defecit, maintenance or surplus for a recomp.
Does anyone have a good source on this? Preferably scientific?
The second is the whole quality proteine and lean muscle.
Proteine is proteine and muscle is muscle, correct?
I think this is interesting question. And probably looking at wrong sources online.
Because the meaning of recomp doesn't require scientific source - you are losing fat while you are gaining muscle and weight stays the same.
That's just what it means. Recomposition, not weight loss, not weight gain.
So on average, say weekly, you are eating at maintenance for weight to stay the same.
Now literally every day you are not likely eating exactly what you burn. Because many eat the same amount daily, but obviously on some days they are eating less than they really burn (workout day), and on some days eating more than they really burn (rest days while body repairs).
Lifters eating in surplus with progressive overload routine have shown ability to add 1 lb muscle every 2 weeks, 4 for women. About equal amounts of fat since surplus.
Since it will be slower eating at maintenance generally compared to doing bulk/cut cycle, you can see comments from many in this thread about their change of mental focus, or why they chose recomp, ect.
Also, despite his usage in the video and other sources - there is no such thing as lean muscle, as if you had any control over that aspect. Outside endurance cardio causing a tad bit of fat stores to be in the muscle for easier access - your body genetics determines how much fat is in the different muscle.
What is usually meant by lean muscle is not gaining fat on top of it - hence recomp, where you actually lose some fat on top of it.
And no protein is not just protein - look up complete and incomplete proteins for starters. Casein for what he referenced from the study for followup.0 -
My understanding is that the actual act of lifting weights only minimally increases how much you burn afterwards. The benefit comes from building more muscle which require more calories to maintain.
HIIT type training is said to continue burning calories long after and at a higher rate.
@Giolis
Both these two things are pretty much myths unfortunately - for practical purposes.
The calorie burn from muscle at rest (the body maintaining muscle tissue) is minimal so adding a few pounds of muscle is totally irrelevant, it's activity and exercise that makes the difference.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dissecting-the-energy-needs-of-the-body-research-review.html
HIIT type training does have a larger EPOC than low level steady state cardio exercise but it's potentially a larger proportion of a much smaller number. Real HIIT is very short duration and that time also includes recovery time - it just isn't a big calorie burner.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-versus-intervals-and-epoc-practical-application.html/
Train to progress your fitness, strength, hypertrophy and sporting goals not some irrelevant calorie burning advantage.
To add to this excellent info.
Real HIIT gets as close to a lifting EPOC calorie burn as you'll get. But also requires that repair the next day like lifting, and extra burn there. And also why endurance pro's will only include it maybe once a week in routines.
Some of those other workouts that have the HIIT label slapped on them may indeed feel intense - but mainly because you don't rest to allow doing anything later in the session very hard. Sure it feels hard.
Hold your breath for 30 seconds while doing a workout. Just because it became mighty hard to do doesn't mean it was a really good workout and engaged the muscles all that great. That's fatigue.
That doesn't mean you need repair from that type of workout.0 -
Thank you, @DoreenaV1975. I'm just glad I can help motivate and inspire others. I used to hate lifting, especially when I was so weak, but now it's the best part of my day. I get excited about it and I love that. My husband has to be my biggest motivator though. He's always encouraging my do any extra, helping me with my form, and reminding me how strong I've gotten. And of course he's always telling me how hot he thinks I look lol.
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Just starting on my recomp journey. But still finding it hard to stay motivated. We have a home gym with everything you need but it's very lonely. I don't have a workout partner because none of my friends have the same goals. And they squirm when I mention weights. Meeting with a friend of a friend who may be interested.0
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katiejanecollins wrote: »Newbie to this thread! Lost 12lbs and now at a happy weight of 122lbs (I'm 5 ft 3 by the way). I really need to tone my butt and legs as they're still quite large compared to my waist. Trying to find a new workout plan so if you can recommend one - please do. I have no gym access and only 2 x 2kg weights! Holiday is 12 weeks away so if I can make some changes by then I'd be over the moon. Thank you
Nia Shanks has a bodyweight only program and the book Strong Curves has a 12 week bodyweight program.
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