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If it's all CICO - why can't you outrun a bad diet?
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The expression "you can't outrun a bad diet" exists because for most people, you can't. I would define a "bad diet" as one that is calorie-wise, higher than the individual's needs as well as lacking in multiple nutrients.
Most people don't have the time to exercise enough to burn off calories that are excess to their day-to-day requirements.
Most people will develop health complications from a nutrient-poor diet.
Most people find it very easy to eat 1000 calories of pizza (I know I can eat 2000+ in one sitting), but very hard to do 1000 (legitimate) calories of cardio.
There is the outliers, the athlete, the bodybuilder, the 16 year old male with a body growing like crazy and the associated calorie burn. However, for the average person - it's not possible. Well, at least not possible long-term.4 -
The expression "you can't outrun a bad diet" exists because for most people, you can't. I would define a "bad diet" as one that is calorie-wise, higher than the individual's needs as well as lacking in multiple nutrients.
Most people don't have the time to exercise enough to burn off calories that are excess to their day-to-day requirements.
Most people will develop health complications from a nutrient-poor diet.
Most people find it very easy to eat 1000 calories of pizza (I know I can eat 2000+ in one sitting), but very hard to do 1000 (legitimate) calories of cardio.
There is the outliers, the athlete, the bodybuilder, the 16 year old male with a body growing like crazy and the associated calorie burn. However, for the average person - it's not possible. Well, at least not possible long-term.
Truth. Nice thoughrs.0 -
Well you do burn at least a thousand calories just going about your normal day. A lot of the posts stating how difficult it is to burn off X000 calories seem to be ignoring that. Personally i dislike the statement in the title - I think it tends to be limiting to individuals who could utilize exercise as their primary weight control tool. Depending on "how bad" my diet is, a bit of exercise just might be exactly what I need to get my weight to where I want it.
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Well you do burn at least a thousand calories just going about your normal day. A lot of the posts stating how difficult it is to burn off X000 calories seem to be ignoring that. Personally i dislike the statement in the title - I think it tends to be limiting to individuals who could utilize exercise as their primary weight control tool. Depending on "how bad" my diet is, a bit of exercise just might be exactly what I need to get my weight to where I want it.
+1
Personally, I love being active, so it's not a hardship when I want to use exercise as my primary weight control tool ... and even now when I'm paying a bit more attention to what I eat than I usually do, exercise is still a very important weight control tool.
I'll also add this ...
My husband works a physically active job. For 8 hours a day, he's moving ... and then we go for walks in the evening and cycling on the weekends. Throughout 2014, he lost about 25 kg without making any changes to his diet. He continued to eat the same things we had always eaten. His weight loss tool was all exercise ... and he's just an average person. (Well, maybe a little bit better than average but that could be my bias.
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I started with MFP at the beginning of 2015, and lost my weight by the end of October 2015 ... but because we're not cycling as much as we would like, I had to count calories and watch what I eat, in addition to the exercise I do, in order to lose the same amount of weight.0 -
Well you do burn at least a thousand calories just going about your normal day. A lot of the posts stating how difficult it is to burn off X000 calories seem to be ignoring that. Personally i dislike the statement in the title - I think it tends to be limiting to individuals who could utilize exercise as their primary weight control tool. Depending on "how bad" my diet is, a bit of exercise just might be exactly what I need to get my weight to where I want it.
+1
Personally, I love being active, so it's not a hardship when I want to use exercise as my primary weight control tool ... and even now when I'm paying a bit more attention to what I eat than I usually do, exercise is still a very important weight control tool.
I'll also add this ...
My husband works a physically active job. For 8 hours a day, he's moving ... and then we go for walks in the evening and cycling on the weekends. Throughout 2014, he lost about 25 kg without making any changes to his diet. He continued to eat the same things we had always eaten. His weight loss tool was all exercise ... and he's just an average person. (Well, maybe a little bit better than average but that could be my bias. )
I started with MFP at the beginning of 2015, and lost my weight by the end of October 2015 ... but because we're not cycling as much as we would like, I had to count calories and watch what I eat, in addition to the exercise I do, in order to lose the same amount of weight.
You my friend understand the difference between why and how...
Bravo! 1 -
My husband also works a very physically active job. He put on his weight working that job and eating an amount of calories greatly in excess of what he required to maintain his weight. And he has a generous daily calorie allowance due to his activity level, so that he was consuming an impressively bad diet.
Could he lose weight by continuing to eat in excess of his requirements and adding in additional exercise to create a calorie deficit? I think his ability to do so would be limited by his energy supply and need for sleep (there are unfortunately only so many hours available in a day). There simply aren't enough hours in the day for him to burn off enough calories to support his terrible former eating habits and lose weight. And, understandably, after working long physically demanding days, incorporating more intense activity to create that calorie deficit in a shorter amount of time probably isn't realistic and would likely result in injuries.
Sure, we incorporate some moderate activity, particularly on the weekends, and I'm sure it helps to burn off a few hundred calories. But he was overeating by significantly more than just a few hundred calories each day, so he is losing weight by eliminating those excess calories plus a few hundred extra to create his deficit.
For those who are able to lose weight by just adding in a bit of exercise, that is wonderful and you should just keep on doing you. I would find that to be a plausible solution, particularly for people who are slightly overweight due to eating a moderate calorie surplus and quite inactive. However, I think the idea that one can't outrun a bad diet stands as a general principle despite the existence of some exceptions.2 -
My husband also works a very physically active job. He put on his weight working that job and eating an amount of calories greatly in excess of what he required to maintain his weight. And he has a generous daily calorie allowance due to his activity level, so that he was consuming an impressively bad diet.
Could he lose weight by continuing to eat in excess of his requirements and adding in additional exercise to create a calorie deficit? I think his ability to do so would be limited by his energy supply and need for sleep (there are unfortunately only so many hours available in a day). There simply aren't enough hours in the day for him to burn off enough calories to support his terrible former eating habits and lose weight. And, understandably, after working long physically demanding days, incorporating more intense activity to create that calorie deficit in a shorter amount of time probably isn't realistic and would likely result in injuries.
Sure, we incorporate some moderate activity, particularly on the weekends, and I'm sure it helps to burn off a few hundred calories. But he was overeating by significantly more than just a few hundred calories each day, so he is losing weight by eliminating those excess calories plus a few hundred extra to create his deficit.
For those who are able to lose weight by just adding in a bit of exercise, that is wonderful and you should just keep on doing you. I would find that to be a plausible solution, particularly for people who are slightly overweight due to eating a moderate calorie surplus and quite inactive. However, I think the idea that one can't outrun a bad diet stands as a general principle despite the existence of some exceptions.
At the end of the day it all comes down to energy balance (the why). Cutting calories, adding exercise or both (the how) is a matter of personal preference and or circumstances...1 -
My husband also works a very physically active job. He put on his weight working that job and eating an amount of calories greatly in excess of what he required to maintain his weight. And he has a generous daily calorie allowance due to his activity level, so that he was consuming an impressively bad diet.
Could he lose weight by continuing to eat in excess of his requirements and adding in additional exercise to create a calorie deficit? I think his ability to do so would be limited by his energy supply and need for sleep (there are unfortunately only so many hours available in a day). There simply aren't enough hours in the day for him to burn off enough calories to support his terrible former eating habits and lose weight. And, understandably, after working long physically demanding days, incorporating more intense activity to create that calorie deficit in a shorter amount of time probably isn't realistic and would likely result in injuries.
Sure, we incorporate some moderate activity, particularly on the weekends, and I'm sure it helps to burn off a few hundred calories. But he was overeating by significantly more than just a few hundred calories each day, so he is losing weight by eliminating those excess calories plus a few hundred extra to create his deficit.
For those who are able to lose weight by just adding in a bit of exercise, that is wonderful and you should just keep on doing you. I would find that to be a plausible solution, particularly for people who are slightly overweight due to eating a moderate calorie surplus and quite inactive. However, I think the idea that one can't outrun a bad diet stands as a general principle despite the existence of some exceptions.
To be candid, in my experience the general principle has been used to justify weirdo diets and woo. No you can't just eat normal food, you have to eat this weird *kitten*. So that's why I tend to hate it. Should people trying to lose weight be mindful of calories consumed? Yep, it would be extremely helpful1 -
Well you do burn at least a thousand calories just going about your normal day. A lot of the posts stating how difficult it is to burn off X000 calories seem to be ignoring that. Personally i dislike the statement in the title - I think it tends to be limiting to individuals who could utilize exercise as their primary weight control tool. Depending on "how bad" my diet is, a bit of exercise just might be exactly what I need to get my weight to where I want it.
No one's claiming that you can't burn 1000 calories in a couple hours of intense exercise. But I often see stuff like:
'Mowing the lawn 45min. 750 calories....'
Wow, really? (ok, maybe with a push mower).
I don't burn more than 400 cal in an hour run according to my HRM, but yes, I know that other people can burn much more. (and I would die if I ran more than an hour).
But I see so often people post that they can't lose weight, and then post 2000-3000 calorie burns for walking, some aerobics, etc.
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Remember the time in the debate forum when we pitted the validity of CICO against a cliche?
#goodtimes2 -
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You could outrun it, but it may not be healthy to do so. Eating 1500 calories of crap and burning 2000 calories will still cause weight loss, but you will likely be unhealthy because of the lack of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients necessary.4
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Exactly.kmbrooks15 wrote: »You could outrun it, but it may not be healthy to do so. Eating 1500 calories of crap and burning 2000 calories will still cause weight loss, but you will likely be unhealthy because of the lack of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients necessary.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Exactly.kmbrooks15 wrote: »You could outrun it, but it may not be healthy to do so. Eating 1500 calories of crap and burning 2000 calories will still cause weight loss, but you will likely be unhealthy because of the lack of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients necessary.
What exactly constitutes 1500 calories of crap? Sounds subjective. Sounds extreme. Possibly a useless example...5 -
It is much easier to put too many calories in your mouth than it is to exercise them off.
When I cycle as hard as I can for an hour - I can only burn off about 1,000 calories - max
So when I am done with that hard ride
I can eat a mess of smoked chicken wings with ranch dip washed down with a nice IPA and undo all of that good and then some in under 15 minutes - 10 if no one is looking
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I took it to mean (as one example) a diet based around fast food and/or highly processed snacks, sweets, etc. that provide very little micronutrients. While that's obviously not a very nutritious diet, I think it's fair to say that there could very well be a sizable number of people eating this way.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Exactly.kmbrooks15 wrote: »You could outrun it, but it may not be healthy to do so. Eating 1500 calories of crap and burning 2000 calories will still cause weight loss, but you will likely be unhealthy because of the lack of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients necessary.
What exactly constitutes 1500 calories of crap? Sounds subjective. Sounds extreme. Possibly a useless example...1 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I took it to mean (as one example) a diet based around fast food and/or highly processed snacks, sweets, etc. that provide very little micronutrients. While that's obviously not a very nutritious diet, I think it's fair to say that there could very well be a sizable number of people eating this way.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Exactly.kmbrooks15 wrote: »You could outrun it, but it may not be healthy to do so. Eating 1500 calories of crap and burning 2000 calories will still cause weight loss, but you will likely be unhealthy because of the lack of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients necessary.
What exactly constitutes 1500 calories of crap? Sounds subjective. Sounds extreme. Possibly a useless example...
The thing is this tho...I've done checks and you can easily fill decent macros (mine) eating at fast food places...so to your argument...it's not crap.
AS well the biology teacher who ate at Micky D's for a month, lost weight and blood tests/numbers/bp all got better...
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I took it to mean (as one example) a diet based around fast food and/or highly processed snacks, sweets, etc. that provide very little micronutrients. While that's obviously not a very nutritious diet, I think it's fair to say that there could very well be a sizable number of people eating this way.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Exactly.kmbrooks15 wrote: »You could outrun it, but it may not be healthy to do so. Eating 1500 calories of crap and burning 2000 calories will still cause weight loss, but you will likely be unhealthy because of the lack of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients necessary.
What exactly constitutes 1500 calories of crap? Sounds subjective. Sounds extreme. Possibly a useless example...
I think you, like many other people on this site, overthink this stuff way too much. Sorry, you just do...5
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