What is going on with all the cops being shot
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_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?0 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?
WHY would you come back? where is this haven? do you think it would stay that way if more people came to it?
I like my own country and culture and a few years was enough. If it came down to the safety of my children though there are choices to be made. You seem touchy about it. Why do you care?1 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »toned_thugs_n_harmony wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »I'll throw this out there.... if the police tell me to stop, I stop. If they tell me to not move, I don't move.
tbf though- didn't that one black guy basically do what he was told? guy told the cop he had a LTC, cop said don't move, guy raised his hands where the officer could see, and so the cop emptied his gun into him?
Which one? Walter Scott ran. The guy selling DVD's fought back. Not sure about the guy in the car.
yeah castile- see above. idk about the other ones, but Castile seemed to do everything correctly and still got murdered. if that's the way it really went down i hope the officer goes to prison or the electric chair.
I agree. In Castile's situation, I'm still wondering why they didn't render aid to him after he was shot. Or even his girlfriend. Still bugs me that she was so Ben Stein about.
the not rendering aid part is what makes me the angriest about it. i could buy the officer didn't mean to execute the guy. take his badge, take his gun, give him some time in prison to think about it etc, but the not rendering aid bit makes me want to see him on death row.
how do you not mean to pull your trigger 5, I repeat, 5 times?!
not to mention shooting into a vehicle with a small child in the back.
i'm not defending him- he definitely executed the guy- i'm saying, i could buy that it wasn't racially motivated, but was instead him reacting to the presence of a gun, which would indicate it was inexperience and lack of training, and so send him to jail for years. but the not rendering aid bit makes me think it was more deliberate for whatever reason and so he should get the death penalty, assuming it all really went down the way it seems.
I don't give a damn if it was racially motivated or not. Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy. The rule of law must prevail.4 -
Louise1491 wrote: »
Please tell me where is this safe haven where all the "good" folks go? Is it with the Amish?sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?
lol - I love these responses0 -
Sugar_Pill wrote: »
I care because of such a place exists- you're holding the secret to the universe in your hands.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?
WHY would you come back? where is this haven? do you think it would stay that way if more people came to it?
I like my own country and culture and a few years was enough. If it came down to the safety of my children though there are choices to be made. You seem touchy about it. Why do you care?
The kumbaya of this earth.
You should get out more1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »toned_thugs_n_harmony wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »I'll throw this out there.... if the police tell me to stop, I stop. If they tell me to not move, I don't move.
tbf though- didn't that one black guy basically do what he was told? guy told the cop he had a LTC, cop said don't move, guy raised his hands where the officer could see, and so the cop emptied his gun into him?
Which one? Walter Scott ran. The guy selling DVD's fought back. Not sure about the guy in the car.
yeah castile- see above. idk about the other ones, but Castile seemed to do everything correctly and still got murdered. if that's the way it really went down i hope the officer goes to prison or the electric chair.
I agree. In Castile's situation, I'm still wondering why they didn't render aid to him after he was shot. Or even his girlfriend. Still bugs me that she was so Ben Stein about.
the not rendering aid part is what makes me the angriest about it. i could buy the officer didn't mean to execute the guy. take his badge, take his gun, give him some time in prison to think about it etc, but the not rendering aid bit makes me want to see him on death row.
how do you not mean to pull your trigger 5, I repeat, 5 times?!
not to mention shooting into a vehicle with a small child in the back.
i'm not defending him- he definitely executed the guy- i'm saying, i could buy that it wasn't racially motivated, but was instead him reacting to the presence of a gun, which would indicate it was inexperience and lack of training, and so send him to jail for years. but the not rendering aid bit makes me think it was more deliberate for whatever reason and so he should get the death penalty, assuming it all really went down the way it seems.
I don't give a damn if it was racially motivated or not. Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy. The rule of law must prevail.
Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.3 -
Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »
I care because of such a place exists- you're holding the secret to the universe in your hands.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?
WHY would you come back? where is this haven? do you think it would stay that way if more people came to it?
I like my own country and culture and a few years was enough. If it came down to the safety of my children though there are choices to be made. You seem touchy about it. Why do you care?
The kumbaya of this earth.
You should get out more
I don't wanna get shot
Good point0 -
Louise1491 wrote: »
I love you too man. So...where we going to live?sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Louise1491 wrote: »
Please tell me where is this safe haven where all the "good" folks go? Is it with the Amish?sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?
lol - I love these responses
As I said, let's wait and see. Way too many geopolitical issues to act too quickly, and a safe place today may be owned by dictators the next.4 -
The hilarious part is, greater than 99% of US citizens will never be directly affected by any of this, even if things were to go to hell in certain areas, unless it escalates to the point where the military gets involved. I see a lot of unjustified fear, and a lot of paranoid hand-wringing in this thread.
Spoiler alert: that's the root of the problem to begin with (on both sides).3 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
I hadn't noticed all the posts justifying violence - please quote them.
That wasn't directed at a specific comment but the tone is there and this isn't the first thread of its kind. Your own post came very close and this thread is showing the sides. You're welcome to explain why you're not condoning violence when you say the shootings didn't happen in a vacuum. The last thing we need is a tit for tat where violent actors get celebrated for acting for their group and innocents are murdered in "retaliation." I'm truly hoping cooler heads prevail and prosecutions pursued both against bad cops and against those attacking cops generally.
'The shootings didn't happen in a vacuum' does not equal 'the shootings were justified.'
I also called them 'tragic' and mentioned 'other deplorable incidences' so I don't see how this could possibly be construed as condoning violence.
Did you watch the video I provided in that post? Being pro black does not automatically make one anti cop.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/f3qur6/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-the-fatal-shootings-of-alton-sterling-and-philando-castile0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?2 -
Louise1491 wrote: »
Are you friendzoning me??sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Louise1491 wrote: »
I love you too man. So...where we going to live?sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Louise1491 wrote: »
Please tell me where is this safe haven where all the "good" folks go? Is it with the Amish?sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?
lol - I love these responses
As I said, let's wait and see. Way too many geopolitical issues to act too quickly, and a safe place today may be owned by dictators the next.
How are you with a 7.62 at 300 meters?1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?
And so you are against targeting police officers?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?
And so you are against targeting police officers?
So you read where I said "all murder is awful" and you were still confused enough to need to ask if I think all murder is bad? Is English your second language or something?0 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »The hilarious part is, greater than 99% of US citizens will never be directly affected by any of this, even if things were to go to hell in certain areas, unless it escalates to the point where the military gets involved. I see a lot of unjustified fear, and a lot of paranoid hand-wringing in this thread.
Spoiler alert: that's the root of the problem to begin with (on both sides).
personally I think that's one of the greatest things about being an American. that we are capable of concern for people who don't live next door.
Concern and irrational fear are not the same thing.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?
And so you are against targeting police officers?
So you read where I said "all murder is awful" and you were still confused enough to need to ask if I think all murder is bad? Is English your second language or something?
No, but I like clarity. Experience and training tell me to seek it. Thank you. I agree.2 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
You have to look at that in terms of percentage of population, not raw numbers.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
...But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times as great as the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
You're only controlling for one variable, the next step would then be to control for crime rates based on race. You're assuming that crime rates (and any subsequent encounters with police) are proportional - they're not.
Thats correct , Look at The FBI Crime stats, You need to look at all of them , you just can't cherry pick what stats fit what ever view you want. That's why they can be so deceiving to some and paint a distorted picture.
I agree- the Post tried shuffling the cards saying, well blacks are more likely to be shot, despite whites being killed in higher numbers, without mentioning that more blacks are involved in crime according to the feds at least.
shady journalism.
It's actually not. There are more blacks involved in crimes because officers arrest black people or stop them at a higher rate than white people. Many departments have taught to profile so if they are looking out for black people to commit a crime they are going to miss out and ignore the white people or let them off with a warning. So it's a variable you can't rely on because it's flawed and not accurate. Also, while FBI stats are informative, they aren't complete because there is no standard way in the country people collect crime data. Chicago doesn't even send their crime stats to the FBI as well as many other major cities.
that's all entirely possible and even probable. the solution is what though? i mean if the response to the numbers it that the system is racist, which it likely is, and thus the numbers are flawed, then how to solve the problems we have as a country?
Better training. Making sure police have access to counselors. Make those that have a conceal and carry go through training with police so they know how to let police know without it escalating. Make police go through training about profiling. Make it clear that shooting someone in the back is not ok because there is no threat there. Also having more communication with the community you work. I think in KC, could be another city, instead of having a protest police decided to have a BBQ with protestors to actually meet and discuss their concerns and issues. They realized it would be more beneficial and cost less. It would also lessen the possibility of violence. I know teens and young adults find the turmoil exciting and decide to go out and be stupid while protestors get pissed that the violence is overshadowing their cause and message.2
This discussion has been closed.
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