What is going on with all the cops being shot
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
I hadn't noticed all the posts justifying violence - please quote them.
That wasn't directed at a specific comment but the tone is there and this isn't the first thread of its kind. Your own post came very close and this thread is showing the sides. You're welcome to explain why you're not condoning violence when you say the shootings didn't happen in a vacuum. The last thing we need is a tit for tat where violent actors get celebrated for acting for their group and innocents are murdered in "retaliation." I'm truly hoping cooler heads prevail and prosecutions pursued both against bad cops and against those attacking cops generally.
'The shootings didn't happen in a vacuum' does not equal 'the shootings were justified.'
I also called them 'tragic' and mentioned 'other deplorable incidences' so I don't see how this could possibly be construed as condoning violence.
Did you watch the video I provided in that post? Being pro black does not automatically make one anti cop.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/f3qur6/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-the-fatal-shootings-of-alton-sterling-and-philando-castile0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?2 -
Louise1491 wrote: »
Are you friendzoning me??sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Louise1491 wrote: »
I love you too man. So...where we going to live?sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Louise1491 wrote: »
Please tell me where is this safe haven where all the "good" folks go? Is it with the Amish?sunnybeaches105 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.
where? the south pole? there's nowhere left to hide on earth anymore really. violence is in everybody. you can't run from what's inside you. none of us can.
only way we're ever going to fix anything is by trying to talk it out and remember we're not our ancestors and aren't beholden to them for all eternity. our forefathers sinned but we can't bear their weight forever.
i'm not smart enough to solve the racial problems facing this country. i'm sure there are people out there right now reading this who ARE though and those are the people we need to NOT leave.
I've lived in one place largely free of violence and spent a good amount of time in another. Have you traveled extensively?
lol - I love these responses
As I said, let's wait and see. Way too many geopolitical issues to act too quickly, and a safe place today may be owned by dictators the next.
How are you with a 7.62 at 300 meters?1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?
And so you are against targeting police officers?0 -
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?
And so you are against targeting police officers?
So you read where I said "all murder is awful" and you were still confused enough to need to ask if I think all murder is bad? Is English your second language or something?0 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »The hilarious part is, greater than 99% of US citizens will never be directly affected by any of this, even if things were to go to hell in certain areas, unless it escalates to the point where the military gets involved. I see a lot of unjustified fear, and a lot of paranoid hand-wringing in this thread.
Spoiler alert: that's the root of the problem to begin with (on both sides).
personally I think that's one of the greatest things about being an American. that we are capable of concern for people who don't live next door.
Concern and irrational fear are not the same thing.1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Agree. Please tell me you feel the same about police shootings.
How can a person feel "Public servants can't kill citizens with impunity in a democracy." about random criminals killing police officers?
All murder is awful, but it's even more awful when it's being done by somebody the public has entrusted with great power and responsibility. I expect criminals to do bad things; I expect more from those who are sworn to uphold the law. Do you feel the same?
And so you are against targeting police officers?
So you read where I said "all murder is awful" and you were still confused enough to need to ask if I think all murder is bad? Is English your second language or something?
No, but I like clarity. Experience and training tell me to seek it. Thank you. I agree.2 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
You have to look at that in terms of percentage of population, not raw numbers.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
...But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times as great as the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
You're only controlling for one variable, the next step would then be to control for crime rates based on race. You're assuming that crime rates (and any subsequent encounters with police) are proportional - they're not.
Thats correct , Look at The FBI Crime stats, You need to look at all of them , you just can't cherry pick what stats fit what ever view you want. That's why they can be so deceiving to some and paint a distorted picture.
I agree- the Post tried shuffling the cards saying, well blacks are more likely to be shot, despite whites being killed in higher numbers, without mentioning that more blacks are involved in crime according to the feds at least.
shady journalism.
It's actually not. There are more blacks involved in crimes because officers arrest black people or stop them at a higher rate than white people. Many departments have taught to profile so if they are looking out for black people to commit a crime they are going to miss out and ignore the white people or let them off with a warning. So it's a variable you can't rely on because it's flawed and not accurate. Also, while FBI stats are informative, they aren't complete because there is no standard way in the country people collect crime data. Chicago doesn't even send their crime stats to the FBI as well as many other major cities.
that's all entirely possible and even probable. the solution is what though? i mean if the response to the numbers it that the system is racist, which it likely is, and thus the numbers are flawed, then how to solve the problems we have as a country?
Better training. Making sure police have access to counselors. Make those that have a conceal and carry go through training with police so they know how to let police know without it escalating. Make police go through training about profiling. Make it clear that shooting someone in the back is not ok because there is no threat there. Also having more communication with the community you work. I think in KC, could be another city, instead of having a protest police decided to have a BBQ with protestors to actually meet and discuss their concerns and issues. They realized it would be more beneficial and cost less. It would also lessen the possibility of violence. I know teens and young adults find the turmoil exciting and decide to go out and be stupid while protestors get pissed that the violence is overshadowing their cause and message.2 -
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Sugar_Pill wrote: »Reading the Walter Scott case... saw this comment " In North Charleston, whites make up 37% of the population, but the police department is 80% white"
Similar statistics have been used in other recent shoots.
So are they suppose to quit just to make the ratio better? If a minority wants to be more represented in a police force, then do what it takes to get the job.
As much as I would love to see this happen- it's just not a rational answer.
African Americans as a whole are socioeconomically disadvantaged. To assume they can just walk into police academy & sign up is absurd. Some, even with high school diplomas who are at 3rd grade reading levels.
In Savannah, where my sister lives and my nephew is a police officer- in the "black neighborhoods" there's liquor stores that accept food stamps (because unfortunately that's what a large percentage of disadvantaged people need) and people are filling their children's lunch boxes with purple drank. 3 blocks over- in the white neighborhood... Trader joes on one corner and a whole foods on the other. Neither accepting food stamps. They also have a highly rated charter school.
I know a woman who wanted to get her (smart and highly athletic) child into that school. She couldn't. She couldn't read the paperwork to have him enrolled.
It's sad out there- not just because people are dying. But because we as a nation are blind to the war on race & we can't see that the segregation we learn about in history books- never ended.
But just because the statistics are against you doesn't mean you shouldn't try to accomplish something. You didn't let statistics prevent you from losing weight and now here you are thin and healthy (and ready for the world to flag
), despite there still being a McDonald's on every corner and ice cream in every store.
If more people were to fight the statistics and do what it takes to try and become officers, others would start to see they were serious about becoming part of the possible solution instead of just being a moving mouth with no real answer.5 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »The hilarious part is, greater than 99% of US citizens will never be directly affected by any of this, even if things were to go to hell in certain areas, unless it escalates to the point where the military gets involved. I see a lot of unjustified fear, and a lot of paranoid hand-wringing in this thread.
Spoiler alert: that's the root of the problem to begin with (on both sides).
personally I think that's one of the greatest things about being an American. that we are capable of concern for people who don't live next door.
Concern and irrational fear are not the same thing.
There's a difference between fear and being concerned with what we are witnessing. When I reach fear level I'll start carrying. Until then, I'll keep paying attention. I'm fortunate to currently live in a place where people get along pretty well. I just don't delude myself into thinking that things can't spiral.2 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »The hilarious part is, greater than 99% of US citizens will never be directly affected by any of this, even if things were to go to hell in certain areas, unless it escalates to the point where the military gets involved. I see a lot of unjustified fear, and a lot of paranoid hand-wringing in this thread.
Spoiler alert: that's the root of the problem to begin with (on both sides).
personally I think that's one of the greatest things about being an American. that we are capable of concern for people who don't live next door.
Concern and irrational fear are not the same thing.
There's a difference between fear and being concerned with what we are witnessing. When I reach fear level I'll start carrying. Until then, I'll keep paying attention. I'm fortunate to currently live in a place where people get along pretty well. I just don't delude myself into thinking that things can't spiral.
I've been carrying since I could legally do so. It's not based in fear, but in the realization that I may otherwise one day need what I don't have. Fortunately, the company that I work for is fully supportive of this, and it's not all that uncommon in Virginia. I've actually had police officers ask me why my holster was empty when I had to go into specific places for work that disallowed it.
As for location though: I live in, what could easily be described, as "the hood". Honestly, I've never had the first problem out of anyone here, and everyone I've talked to has been more friendly than most of the shitlers I used to run into daily in the more upscale communities. The being said, yeah, I've had more people get shot within a two-block radius of my apartment in the last month, than a lot of people will encounter in years. That still doesn't concern me. Why? I know how to mind my own damned business.
There's a certain culture of respect in these areas that, if transgressed against, will get you shot. Abide by it, and no one has any problems with you. vOv
However yes, I do realize that the potential is there for the whole thing to go up like a bundle of kindling if the wrong match gets struck.6 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »The hilarious part is, greater than 99% of US citizens will never be directly affected by any of this, even if things were to go to hell in certain areas, unless it escalates to the point where the military gets involved. I see a lot of unjustified fear, and a lot of paranoid hand-wringing in this thread.
Spoiler alert: that's the root of the problem to begin with (on both sides).
personally I think that's one of the greatest things about being an American. that we are capable of concern for people who don't live next door.
Concern and irrational fear are not the same thing.
There's a difference between fear and being concerned with what we are witnessing. When I reach fear level I'll start carrying. Until then, I'll keep paying attention. I'm fortunate to currently live in a place where people get along pretty well. I just don't delude myself into thinking that things can't spiral.
I've been carrying since I could legally do so. It's not based in fear, but in the realization that I may otherwise one day need what I don't have. Fortunately, the company that I work for is fully supportive of this, and it's not all that uncommon in Virginia. I've actually had police officers ask me why my holster was empty when I had to go into specific places for work that disallowed it.
As for location though: I live in, what could easily be described, as "the hood". Honestly, I've never had the first problem out of anyone here, and everyone I've talked to has been more friendly than most of the shitlers I used to run into daily in the more upscale communities. The being said, yeah, I've had more people get shot within a two-block radius of my apartment in the last month, than a lot of people will encounter in years. That still doesn't concern me. Why? I know how to mind my own damned business.
There's a certain culture of respect in these areas that, if transgressed against, will get you shot. Abide by it, and no one has any problems with you. vOv
However yes, I do realize that the potential is there for the whole thing to go up like a bundle of kindling if the wrong match gets struck.
I have a different risk assessment where I live but I understand where you are coming from2 -
People are using all kinds of ridiculous things to push their agendas. It shows lack of personal responsibility and respect for anything but their own wants and needs.
It is disgusting and sad, but It doesn't surprise me though.3 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »I'll throw this out there.... if the police tell me to stop, I stop. If they tell me to not move, I don't move.
tbf though- didn't that one black guy basically do what he was told? guy told the cop he had a LTC, cop said don't move, guy raised his hands where the officer could see, and so the cop emptied his gun into him?
Which one? Walter Scott ran. The guy selling DVD's fought back. Not sure about the guy in the car.
yeah castile- see above. idk about the other ones, but Castile seemed to do everything correctly and still got murdered. if that's the way it really went down i hope the officer goes to prison or the electric chair.
I agree. In Castile's situation, I'm still wondering why they didn't render aid to him after he was shot. Or even his girlfriend. Still bugs me that she was so Ben Stein about.
I can't for the life of me find the article that I read but... It said that they were not pulled over for a tail light, they were pulled over because the car and the driver matched a BOLO from an armed robbery from earlier that day or week. The total calmness of her video struck me as so extremely odd from day one and the article also directly quoted her mother that her daughter is an attention seeking narcissist. Now all of this could be mumbo jumbo but... The whole thing just does not add up to me at all...4 -
NorthCascades wrote: »willnorton wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »You forgot the "what's with all the innocent people being shot" & the "we're in the middle of a war on race and too many people are dying".
who has found all those people innocent????? the public dont not know the whole case... somethings are not put out in the public eye... for protection of an ongoing case...
that is what our constitution and the courts are for
but you are definitely entitled to yoru opinion... what makes America great
In the United States of America, people don't need to be "found" innocent. People are innocent, until proven guilty. A former police officer should know that.
you took that comment out of context.. go back and read why I asked that.. it was in reference to what she said first..... 31 years, I know exactly what I am talking about1 -
prolly too soon to link a video of body count's 'cop killer' from 19922
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Cop shootings have declined over the years. But more recently we've militarized our police forces in weaponry and training, which leads to less restrictive behaviors during confrontations. We've also required our cops to enforce thousands of petty laws, leading to what amounts to legal harassment. Should a cop really be expected to arrest someone for shop lifting a few CDs that should have been under lock and key? Or pursue someone for selling individual cigarettes on a sidewalk corner?1
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I want a country where nobody kills people.1
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[/quote] I can't for the life of me find the article that I read but... It said that they were not pulled over for a tail light, they were pulled over because the car and the driver matched a BOLO from an armed robbery from earlier that day or week. The total calmness of her video struck me as so extremely odd from day one and the article also directly quoted her mother that her daughter is an attention seeking narcissist. Now all of this could be mumbo jumbo but... The whole thing just does not add up to me at all...[/quote]
I read that somewhere also but let us not confuse these facts with what the media and BLM protesters want the narrative to really be. Also, we didn't see what happened prior to shots being fired, we only saw her response afterwards. Since she said the cop killed her boyfriend, then it must be true and we must all fall in line and call for him to be hanged. Kinda strange, the same think happened in Ferguson and Baltimore, but all those cops were found not guilty. Hmmmm.2 -
I can't for the life of me find the article that I read but... It said that they were not pulled over for a tail light, they were pulled over because the car and the driver matched a BOLO from an armed robbery from earlier that day or week. The total calmness of her video struck me as so extremely odd from day one and the article also directly quoted her mother that her daughter is an attention seeking narcissist. Now all of this could be mumbo jumbo but... The whole thing just does not add up to me at all...[/quote]tmanfromtexas wrote: »
I read that somewhere also but let us not confuse these facts with what the media and BLM protesters want the narrative to really be. Also, we didn't see what happened prior to shots being fired, we only saw her response afterwards. Since she said the cop killed her boyfriend, then it must be true and we must all fall in line and call for him to be hanged. Kinda strange, the same think happened in Ferguson and Baltimore, but all those cops were found not guilty. Hmmmm. [/quote]
Just as we assume that someone found not to be guilty, isn't guilty; when they might actually be!1 -
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