Addicted to diet coke.. help :(
Replies
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
Oh! I read the Harvard article wrong. It says, "The health BENEFITS of diet drinks are inconclusive, with research showing mixed findings."
This article is referring to all artificial sweeteners not just the aspartame in a diet Coke.
I do worry about the toxins which are probably being handled well in smaller quantities, but what about any cumulative, long term effects?
There are no toxins in diet coke.
Just the excitotoxins unless those are mythological.
So I looked up excitotoxins and they are any class of molecule that can stimulate neurons. Overstimulation of neurons can cause damage. So happens that amino acids, the common building block of all protein, are in this class.
Aspartame is just a methylated ester of a dipeptide of two amino acids, phenylalanine and aspartate. As with any protein aspartame is hydrolized in the stomach acid and metabolically broken down in the intestine to the breakdown products of aspartate, phenylalanine and methanol in a weight ratio of 4:5:1. What that means is that 10mg of aspartame will be broken down in your body to 4mg of aspartate, 5mg of phenylalanine and 1mg of methanol before it enters your blood. [citation: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408440701516184]. No aspartame enters your blood intact.
How much of each metabolite do you get from ingesting one diet soda?
So the metabolic products of aspartame are aspartate,phenylalanine and methanol in a 4:5:1 ratio. One can of diet coke has about 180mg of aspartame. That means it is broken down to 72mg of aspartate, 90mg of phenylalanine and 18mg of methanol.
Doing the math that means from one can of diet coke you'd get 162 mg or 0.162 grams of amino acids or "excitotoxins" from your diet coke.
In comparison a small chicken breast has 24 grams of protein and therefore 24 grams of amino acids or "excitotoxins" in it, which is 150 times more than in the can of coke.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
Oh! I read the Harvard article wrong. It says, "The health BENEFITS of diet drinks are inconclusive, with research showing mixed findings."
This article is referring to all artificial sweeteners not just the aspartame in a diet Coke.
I do worry about the toxins which are probably being handled well in smaller quantities, but what about any cumulative, long term effects?
There are no toxins in diet coke.
Just the excitotoxins unless those are mythological.
So I looked up "Excitotoxins" and they are any class of molecule that can stimulate neurons. Overstimulation of neurons can cause neural damage. As it so happens, amino acids...the common building blocks of all proteins, are within this class of molecules.
Aspartame itself is a methylester of a dipeptide of two amino acids, aspartate and phenylalanine, also common to all proteins.
As with any protein, aspartame is hydrolized in the stomach acid and metabolically broken down in the intestine to the breakdown products of aspartate, phenylalanine and methanol in a weight ratio of 4:5:1. What that means is that 10mg of aspartame will be broken down in your body to 4mg of aspartate, 5mg of phenylalanine and 1mg of methanol before it enters your blood. citation: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408440701516184
No aspartame enters your blood intact.
How much of each metabolite do you get from ingesting one diet soda?
So the metabolic products of aspartame are aspartate,phenylalanine and methanol in a 4:5:1 ratio. One can of diet coke has about 180mg of aspartame. That means it is broken down to 72mg of aspartate, 90mg of phenylalanine and 18mg of methanol. That means you get a total of 162mg or 0.162 grams of amino acids (or "excitotoxins" from a can of diet coke.
How does this compare to other sources of protein, like say chicken? A chicken breast contains 24 grams of protein so 24 grams of amino acids or put another way 24 grams of "excitotoxins". That is 150 times more than in the can of diet coke.
So if aspartame is a "toxin" because it is comprised of amino acids which are excitotoxins and that apparently makes it "toxic" then chicken breast is 150 times more toxic than a can of diet coke.
In fact by this definition basically anything you eat is toxic.
That is why that is not the definition of toxic.4 -
So I looked up "Excitotoxins" and they are any class of molecule that can stimulate neurons. Overstimulation of neurons can cause neural damage. As it so happens, amino acids...the common building blocks of all proteins, are within this class of molecules.
Aspartame itself is a methylester of a dipeptide of two amino acids, aspartate and phenylalanine, also common to all proteins.
As with any protein, aspartame is hydrolyzed in the stomach acid and metabolically broken down in the intestine to the breakdown products of aspartate, phenylalanine and methanol in a weight ratio of 4:5:1. What that means is that 10mg of aspartame will be broken down in your body to 4mg of aspartate, 5mg of phenylalanine and 1mg of methanol before it enters your blood. citation: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408440701516184
That means that no aspartame enters your blood intact considering the ADME properties of a dipeptide. In fact all measures of levels in blood after injestion return zero as shown in the above citation.
How much of each metabolite do you get from ingesting one diet soda?
One can of diet coke has about 180mg of aspartame. That means it is broken down to 72mg of aspartate, 90mg of phenylalanine and 18mg of methanol. That means you get a total of 162mg or 0.162 grams of amino acids (or "excitotoxins" from a can of diet coke.
How does this compare to other sources of protein, like say chicken? A chicken breast contains 24 grams of protein so 24 grams of amino acids or put another way 24 grams of "excitotoxins". That is 150 times more than in the can of diet coke.
So if aspartame is a "toxin" because it is comprised of amino acids which are excitotoxins and that apparently makes it "toxic" then chicken breast is 150 times more toxic than a can of diet coke.
In fact by this definition basically anything you eat is toxic because almost everything you eat contains some amount of protein. Also your daily recommended intake of 80 grams of protein is apparently recommending you injest a whole lot of "toxins" by this definition.
That is why that is not the definition of toxic.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Huh, how come I can't post anymore
Whatcha do?0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
Oh! I read the Harvard article wrong. It says, "The health BENEFITS of diet drinks are inconclusive, with research showing mixed findings."
This article is referring to all artificial sweeteners not just the aspartame in a diet Coke.
I do worry about the toxins which are probably being handled well in smaller quantities, but what about any cumulative, long term effects?
There are no toxins in diet coke.
Just the excitotoxins unless those are mythological.
So I looked up "Excitotoxins" and they are any class of molecule that can stimulate neurons. Overstimulation of neurons can cause neural damage. As it so happens, amino acids...the common building blocks of all proteins, are within this class of molecules...ie amino acids are excitotoxins.
Aspartame itself is a methylester of a dipeptide of two amino acids, aspartate and phenylalanine, also common to all proteins.
As with any protein, aspartame is hydrolized in the stomach acid and metabolically broken down in the intestine to the breakdown products of aspartate, phenylalanine and methanol in a weight ratio of 4:5:1. What that means is that 10mg of aspartame will be broken down in your body to 4mg of aspartate, 5mg of phenylalanine and 1mg of methanol before it enters your blood. citation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671
No aspartame enters your blood intact, only its metabolic products.
How much of each metabolite do you get from ingesting one diet soda?
So the metabolic products of aspartame are aspartate,phenylalanine and methanol in a 4:5:1 ratio. One can of diet coke has about 180mg of aspartame. That means it is broken down to 72mg of aspartate, 90mg of phenylalanine and 18mg of methanol. That means you get a total of 162mg or 0.162 grams of amino acids (or "excitotoxins") from a can of diet coke.
How does this compare to other sources of protein, like say chicken? A chicken breast contains 24 grams of protein so 24 grams of amino acids or put another way 24 grams of "excitotoxins". That is 150 times more than in the can of diet coke.
So if aspartame is a "toxin" because it is comprised of amino acids which are excitotoxins and that apparently makes it "toxic" then chicken breast is 150 times more toxic than a can of diet coke.
In fact by this definition basically anything you eat is toxic considering almost everything you eat contains protein. In fact you wouldn't survive without protein.
That, by the way, is why that is not the definition of toxin.6 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Huh, how come I can't post anymore
Whatcha do?
Apparently it didn't like the link I gave in my citation so I got to it via a different way and then I could post. Weird, I was just linking direct to the journal Critical Reviews of Toxicology and apparently that is bad, I went through PubMed instead.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »MissJanet55 wrote: »I'm not one to argue on internet forums, but there is a lot of documentation.
This science paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/
And this piece on safefood, although this group obviously has a point of view:
http://www.safefood.org.nz/aspartaddict.html
An FDA paper on aspartame toxicity:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
And many more. There are also pieces saying it is perfectly safe, so pick your poison. But one thing is sure - giving it up is not going to hurt you.
I saw a lot of articles that say it is not harmful also. It is confusing because studies are inconclusive.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/artificial-sweeteners/
Oh! I read the Harvard article wrong. It says, "The health BENEFITS of diet drinks are inconclusive, with research showing mixed findings."
This article is referring to all artificial sweeteners not just the aspartame in a diet Coke.
I do worry about the toxins which are probably being handled well in smaller quantities, but what about any cumulative, long term effects?
There are no toxins in diet coke.
Just the excitotoxins unless those are mythological.
So I looked up "Excitotoxins" and they are any class of molecule that can stimulate neurons. Overstimulation of neurons can cause neural damage. As it so happens, amino acids...the common building blocks of all proteins, are within this class of molecules...ie amino acids are excitotoxins.
Aspartame itself is a methylester of a dipeptide of two amino acids, aspartate and phenylalanine, also common to all proteins.
As with any protein, aspartame is hydrolized in the stomach acid and metabolically broken down in the intestine to the breakdown products of aspartate, phenylalanine and methanol in a weight ratio of 4:5:1. What that means is that 10mg of aspartame will be broken down in your body to 4mg of aspartate, 5mg of phenylalanine and 1mg of methanol before it enters your blood. citation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671
No aspartame enters your blood intact, only its metabolic products.
How much of each metabolite do you get from ingesting one diet soda?
So the metabolic products of aspartame are aspartate,phenylalanine and methanol in a 4:5:1 ratio. One can of diet coke has about 180mg of aspartame. That means it is broken down to 72mg of aspartate, 90mg of phenylalanine and 18mg of methanol. That means you get a total of 162mg or 0.162 grams of amino acids (or "excitotoxins") from a can of diet coke.
How does this compare to other sources of protein, like say chicken? A chicken breast contains 24 grams of protein so 24 grams of amino acids or put another way 24 grams of "excitotoxins". That is 150 times more than in the can of diet coke.
So if aspartame is a "toxin" because it is comprised of amino acids which are excitotoxins and that apparently makes it "toxic" then chicken breast is 150 times more toxic than a can of diet coke.
In fact by this definition basically anything you eat is toxic considering almost everything you eat contains protein. In fact you wouldn't survive without protein.
That, by the way, is why that is not the definition of toxic.
I love it when people rely upon science rather than woo and mythology.7 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Huh, how come I can't post anymore
Whatcha do?
Apparently it didn't like the link I gave in my citation so I got to it via a different way and then I could post. Weird, I was just linking direct to the journal Critical Reviews of Toxicology and apparently that is bad, I went through PubMed instead.
Gah...paywall on that journal. Okay if you want the full study then I can get it for you and email it to you just let me know.0 -
I should stop posting on this thread though, I've done this topic to death and therefore just end up getting frustrated by it.
OP diet coke is not going to hurt you and if your approach to better health is to obsess about avoiding things you like then it is going to be a bumpy road indeed. I recommend spending your energy instead on getting more exercise by going for regular walks or doing a sport you enjoy and just watching your calories, not undereating but finding your maintenance level and eating just a bit less or exercising just a bit more.
Diet coke is not going to make or break this for you. Obviously you shouldn't drink nothing but diet coke due to the caffeine issue (which does have an affect), you should probably drink more uncaffeinated beverages, but again thats a small issue relative to the rather larger issues of getting enough activity in your day and watching your caloric intake.10 -
Here's a suggestion - go to the website sciencedirect.com and search for artificial sweeteners in the keyword box. You will get a list of scientific journal papers on the subject. Read the abstracts (which you can access free) and reach your own conclusions. Myself, I would not drink 4 liters a day. Try flavored Perrier or iced tea perhaps (?)2
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replace it with another thing that you do love too0
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healthy491 wrote: »
Because, OP, you have posted several other threads displaying concerning behaviour surrounding food and weight loss. Trust me, the first thing that comes to mind when I see your user name is that thread where you were in almost complete meltdown over 500 grams on the scale.
But if this happens regularly, it explains a lot: "So today I went to a confectionery and bought a diet coke and the store owner and my dad started giving me a lecture about how its bad for me , causes diabetes , weight gain etc"
If this is the sort of attitude you have grown up around, then no wonder you have some distorted thinking. OP, there's nothing wrong with diet coke (and PS, enjoying it is not "addiction"), and it won't make you gain weight or give you diabetes. In fact, you're better off drinking diet coke because it's low cal, rather than regular coke. Plus IMO it tastes better
3 -
Diet pop is not going to kill you, but it does have some problems. 1- Too much salt. The salt is dehydrating and can cause headaches. 2- Too much caffeine. The can or the bottle is more than one portion. If you have 2 or 3 of them per day, you could end up with stomach irritation and headaches.0
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Diet pop is not going to kill you, but it does have some problems. 1- Too much salt. The salt is dehydrating and can cause headaches. 2- Too much caffeine. The can or the bottle is more than one portion. If you have 2 or 3 of them per day, you could end up with stomach irritation and headaches.
Diet pop has very little sodium in it. Nothing at all to be concerned about.3 -
Diet pop is not going to kill you, but it does have some problems. 1- Too much salt. The salt is dehydrating and can cause headaches. 2- Too much caffeine. The can or the bottle is more than one portion. If you have 2 or 3 of them per day, you could end up with stomach irritation and headaches.
The Diet Dr Pepper I'm currently drinking has a whopping 55 mgs of sodium. That does add up over 4 liters, but for 1 or 2 cans a day it's pretty insignificant.4 -
rankinsect wrote: »SusanMFindlay wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »healthy491 wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »doesn't cause weight gain, doesn't cause diabetes, doesn't cause cancer, etc. etc. etc.
The only worry i'd have consuming the amount you're talking about is the damage to your teeth or potential Reflux/Acid symptoms.
Really ? Thanks literally EVERYONE tells me how bad it is for my health and that I should stop
The phosphoric acid in Coca Cola has been known to cause osteoporosis by leaching calcium out of bones and weaken teeth when consumed in largr quantities.
Teeth? Sure. Bone? Not a chance. To actually weaken bone via acidity, your blood pH would need to fall below 5.5 - which is far beyond the lethal level. Normal body pH is incredibly tightly regulated.
For that matter, acidic drinks are not going to increase stomach acidity, because you'd never swallow anything more acidic than your stomach acid - whatever you drink is going to reduce the acidity of your stomach contents. Actual acidosis tends to be caused by either kidney damage or poisoning, such as by drinking methanol, or by severe oxygen deprivation, not by consumption of acidic drinks.
http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/features/soda-osteoporosis ("Researchers at Tufts University, studying several thousand men and women, found that women who regularly drank cola-based sodas -- three or more a day -- had almost 4% lower bone mineral density in the hip, even though researchers controlled for calcium and vitamin D intake.")
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/84/4/936.full
It's not via acidity. If occurring, it's probably via co-ordination (a broad category of interactions including chelation). And, no, not every phosphorus containing compound would have this effect. It would be limited to phosphoric acid and the related phosphates in which there are free oxygen atoms available to co-ordinate to the calcium. It appears that the caffeine may also be a contributing factor (since the noncola sodas were not shown to give the same reduced bone density).
Anyway, I managed to drastically reduce (but not eliminate) my diet soda intake by replacing it with flavoured waters (e.g. Crystal Light) which I increasingly diluted. I was able to get myself up to about half my intake being water, most of the rest being flavoured water or home brewed iced tea, with one or two diet sodas a day as well.
I wouldn't have been worried if the OP said she was drinking half a liter a day, but 4 liters a day is going to be very hard on the teeth and may increase her risk of osteoperosis.
Correlation studies are almost useless, particularly with diet, since diet is so deeply correlated with most of our lifestyle. People who consume more X also consume more Y and Z, and less A and B, etc.
Essentially, the root problem with correlational studies are that you can never prove you've accounted for every confounding variable. You can account for the ones you've thought of, but that's it, you can never prove you've thought of every variable you actually need to correct for. This, along with the fact that typical scientific standards tend to produce a lot of false positives makes this interesting, but inconclusive.
Another thing that strikes me about that study are that the effects were seen only in women, not men, and only in the hip, not the spine. If there was a real effect, we'd expect to see it in both testing sites, and probably both sexes as well.
Hence why I said "if"; however, it is very plausible that the correlation is due to cause-effect given the strong affinity calcium and phosphates have for each other. (There are several pairs of elements and/or ions that have particularly strong affinities. It's why, for example, hydrofluoric acid etches glass but hydrochloric acid does not.) So, an equilibrium based process could easily lead to this type of effect and it should be further investigated. In the meanwhile, 4 L of diet soda every day seems excessive and we can all agree on the potential dental issues.
Also, those who say that water tastes like nothing have been lucky with their local supplies. When I lived in Calgary, the water regularly tasted like bleach and I would not drink it neat. Fortunately, my current city has much better water.0 -
healthy491 wrote: »
Because, OP, you have posted several other threads displaying concerning behaviour surrounding food and weight loss. Trust me, the first thing that comes to mind when I see your user name is that thread where you were in almost complete meltdown over 500 grams on the scale.
But if this happens regularly, it explains a lot: "So today I went to a confectionery and bought a diet coke and the store owner and my dad started giving me a lecture about how its bad for me , causes diabetes , weight gain etc"
If this is the sort of attitude you have grown up around, then no wonder you have some distorted thinking. OP, there's nothing wrong with diet coke (and PS, enjoying it is not "addiction"), and it won't make you gain weight or give you diabetes. In fact, you're better off drinking diet coke because it's low cal, rather than regular coke. Plus IMO it tastes better
Actually , its quite the opposite. My parents are both average and eat like pigs and whatever they want. For some reason , they always warn me about diet coke though thats why I sometimes get concerned. I grew up on doughnuts and junk food so definetly not the case. Also , i dont think theres anything wrong in being concerned when you gain some weight . At that time , I was new to MFP and didnt know about weight flactuations etc. So I thought that I would gain 500g everytime I have a day where I eat whatever I want. Please , do not judge if you dont know tha facts. And yes, I am a bit obsessed with the scale and will stop, but come on , who on this site is not a bit obsessed with the scale?0 -
"who on this site is not a bit obsessed with the scale?"
Honestly? Quite a few, me included. Scale weight has little to do with your overall health unless you are obese. I'm not obese so I don't care all that much about my scale weight. I do measure it, but if it doesn't go down for a while and I feel better or I've lost an inch around my waist or can do another 5 pushups then I really don't care. From your picture you aren't obese, in fact if that is you you don't even look overweight at all. So I definitely wouldn't obsess over your scale.2 -
The_WoIverine wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »The_WoIverine wrote: »lol gotta love the never ending argument between which study is right and which isn't. Of course, those who claim their studies are the right ones, usually are the people who say McDonalds is good for you, just like drinking an excessive amount of diet soda is harmless. I'm not so concern about sugar but about whatever chemicals (harmless or not) they put in a soda. I rather make my own fruit juices than drinking any of that crap.
Lol gotta love never ending self righteous posts.
Because I disagree with what others say and I know what's best for body? If so, then sure!
Best for whose body? Or are you the ultimate authority on "body"?
Girl, please.
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The_WoIverine wrote: »lol gotta love the never ending argument between which study is right and which isn't. Of course, those who claim their studies are the right ones, usually are the people who say McDonalds is good for you, just like drinking an excessive amount of diet soda is harmless. I'm not so concern about sugar but about whatever chemicals (harmless or not) they put in a soda. I rather make my own fruit juices than drinking any of that crap.
Fruit juice contains methanol. Better not ingest that crap.
It's also acidic. ever seen what lemon juice does to rust?
It's one of the main ingredients in many bathroom cleaners, would you want to ingest bathroom cleaner?2
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