Done with it!
Replies
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BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
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BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?1 -
stevencloser wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
One bowl of ice cream is nowhere near enough to "starve the rest of the day". And the only way you don't eat ice cream for breakfast is by telling yourself you can't have any ice cream at all ever?
To be fair, that depends on the size of the bowl. This is where we have to separate eating what we want to from eating how much we want to. There are some foods that I don't eat more than once or twice a year because I only like to eat them in large enough quantities that they really limit what I eat the rest of the day.
I just had a conversation with my husband about this over lunch today. I don't eat tomato soup with saltines anymore because I only like that combo when I can use an entire sleeve (or more) of saltines in one bowl of soup. That's something like 550 calories of just crackers, which would be a splurge for me because that kind of cracker intake wouldn't do much to get me to my protein and fat goals for the day.
None of that overrides the truth of CICO, of course.
That's totally me lol. I would not bother with the soup unless I had all the crackers. Thus, I hardly ever eat soup.0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
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BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
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BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?3 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
2 -
Rebecca0224 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
One bowl of ice cream is nowhere near enough to "starve the rest of the day". And the only way you don't eat ice cream for breakfast is by telling yourself you can't have any ice cream at all ever?
To be fair, that depends on the size of the bowl. This is where we have to separate eating what we want to from eating how much we want to. There are some foods that I don't eat more than once or twice a year because I only like to eat them in large enough quantities that they really limit what I eat the rest of the day.
I just had a conversation with my husband about this over lunch today. I don't eat tomato soup with saltines anymore because I only like that combo when I can use an entire sleeve (or more) of saltines in one bowl of soup. That's something like 550 calories of just crackers, which would be a splurge for me because that kind of cracker intake wouldn't do much to get me to my protein and fat goals for the day.
None of that overrides the truth of CICO, of course.
YES! Another person that eats a whole sleeve of saltines with tomato soup! My husband thinks I am nuts. A couple of weeks ago, I skipped breakfast and lunch just so I could have my tomato soup, saltines (whole sleeve) and grilled cheese. I had been craving it, so I planned it and went for it!
You guys are eating your tomato soup wrong-Fritos goes in the soup, not puny crackers
I have never heard of this. It sounds salty but the Fritos would probably hold up well. One of the reasons I like so many crackers is that I like how dry it makes the soup. Like @Emily3907 's husband, my husband thinks I am crazy when I say that.
Dry soup? How can soup be dry?
It's not dry it's thick soup
It's a bowl of hot tomato-ey crackers. <nods>2 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
I think cwolfman is arguing a strawman.
ogt's saying examining one's satiety, level, etc. doesn't necessarily mean that he/she is suggesting that you should eat like X or in a restrictive way. wolfman leaps to a fallacy just to argue, ie strawman?
I agree with ogt on suggesting looking beyond simple cico. Hey, I got a brain and might as well put some intelligence into it as I do with everything else if I could. In fact my weight loss process was much easier than I anticipated, when I came up with an appetite-control category of food. I came up with meal timing that I won't have to avoid any social, family obligation. No need to mind calorie counting or rely on any app.1 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
2 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
This is a great post. I wish I could give it more than one "awesome."
Thank you! It's my personal best.
Should be mandatory reading for every MFP'er!
Extremely well said!
0 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
*Edited to add: Not to mention we are on the forums of a calorie counting website. Calorie counting is the whole premise behind MFP. And we are in the General Diet and Weight Loss Help section, so if someone is here asking for help, I am going to offer help in a way that I see fit.10 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because knowledge is power? It's not like we're trying to teach them about brain surgery or anything.3 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
0 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
The problem is--alot of times it's not working for them, and they are asking for help--ie: "I'm eating healthy and exercising and I put on 6 lbs in one week"!1 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because knowledge is power? It's not like we're trying to teach them about brain surgery or anything.
But it's not useful to them at the moment they ask a question about the plan they chose to start and are potentially struggling with. Instead answer their question/give support/empathy/understanding.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
I think that statement comes from people asking what are you learning about healthy eating and portion control from the program and is this way of eating sustainable.1 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.7 -
BiomedDent wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because knowledge is power? It's not like we're trying to teach them about brain surgery or anything.
But it's not useful to them at the moment they ask a question about the plan they chose to start and are potentially struggling with. Instead answer their question/give support/empathy/understanding.
Who gets to decide what is "useful" to the OP?3 -
People need to know CICO as much as they need to know eat less, move more. LOL.0
-
BiomedDent wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because knowledge is power? It's not like we're trying to teach them about brain surgery or anything.
But it's not useful to them at the moment they ask a question about the plan they chose to start and are potentially struggling with. Instead answer their question/give support/empathy/understanding.
Also, if they're struggling with their current plan, why not let them see that there are other options? They don't HAVE to continue that plan if it's too difficult for them, or if they're hungry, or if their restricting is causing them to binge and then feel like a failure.
7 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
I think cwolfman is arguing a strawman.
ogt's saying examining one's satiety, level, etc. doesn't necessarily mean that he/she is suggesting that you should eat like X or in a restrictive way. wolfman leaps to a fallacy just to argue, ie strawman?
I agree with ogt on suggesting looking beyond simple cico. Hey, I got a brain and might as well put some intelligence into it as I do with everything else if I could. In fact my weight loss process was much easier than I anticipated, when I came up with an appetite-control category of food. I came up with meal timing that I won't have to avoid any social, family obligation. No need to mind calorie counting or rely on any app.
Uhhh...no...I don't think maybe you know what a strawman argument is...and I wasn't arguing...I was giving my personal experience. And you will note that I was disagreeing with the bolded print, not the whole of the post...
As with many people who diet, they think they need to eat X, Y, or Z or restrict this or that...I think that's plainly evident on pretty much a day to day basis...
I was simply stating that when I started here and I was told I could eat what I wanted, just less, the light bulb came on...it made things very easy just to eat what I was eating and focus on less and portions, etc...and then I made incremental changes from there. My diet is about 180* from where it was...it's been an evolutionary process.
I wasn't arguing with anyone, I was just disagreeing that "eat whatever you want, just less" isn't really an oversimplification...particularly not in the beginning when everything is confusing and you have a bunch of woo floating around in your head. I found it very beneficial...I wouldn't be where I am now had I not received that advice.
I don't really know what you're talking about with the whole strawman thing other than you really don't know what that means...
9 -
snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because knowledge is power? It's not like we're trying to teach them about brain surgery or anything.
But it's not useful to them at the moment they ask a question about the plan they chose to start and are potentially struggling with. Instead answer their question/give support/empathy/understanding.
Who gets to decide what is "useful" to the OP?
Good point. I would think that decision belongs solely to the OP.
And the other element to keep in mind here is that for every person that asks a question, there are literally dozens more who are simply reading and learning.
4 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
0 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
Actually, a lot of the people here who have achieved their goals have read a lot of research from people who do know what they're doing. People like Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, James Krieger... just to name a few.
I can't tell you how much research I've read while I've done "what works for me", and a lot of it was linked here by those "muscly" men.
You're mistaken in your assumption that just because someone is offering an opinion from experience that the opinion isn't informed and based on research.9 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
You're right, it's better to pay money for good dieting advice. However, since we're on a free site, you get what you get. By the way, you aren't one of those specialists that want to be paid, are you?3 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
Don't see how you can say that's annoying and disheartening, though. It may be for you, so you can always skip over posts like that which seem to annoy you so.
For me, learning about the basics of CICO when I first came here was enlightening, eye-opening and likely saved me from becoming discouraged and annoyed at not being successful.
4
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