Done with it!
Replies
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cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
But someone deciding to eat ice cream for breakfast and blowing their calories for the day is still calories in calories out. They can choose to ration out their calories more wisely (aka more filling options that will keep them satiated) through the day or blow it early on and either make the decision to eat more nutrition dense but calorie small meals and make up that one moment the rest of the week through shaving a few calories off each day or adding an extra workout session.
How people get to CICO is on them. There are some people who don't eat anything all day and have a large dinner and that's fine for them and they lose b/c they stay within their calorie goal. Or there are people like me who have 6 small-ish meals a day and keep within their calorie goal.
There's about 1000 calories in a pint of ice cream, you could still have a piece of grilled chicken and a lower calorie veggie for about 500 calories. If you're on a 1500 calorie plan, you're still within your calorie goal. This isn't even taking exercise into consideration.8 -
MelanieCN77 wrote: »I actually agree in the sense that people should think about their tone - just because a veteran user of the forums has heard xyz a hundred times before doesn't give them the right to talk to people like they are idiots. I like to eat fresh prepared food from fresh ingredients and I think it's healthier for me to snack on an apple instead of cheetos but that opinion just gets scorned and patronized. It's so reductionist it's almost comical. I'd like to see newcomers with questions about cleanses or sugar or whatever treated gently and with respect, not this sneering three word answer rudeness that comes so often now.
My guess is that the bolded comment may not have been stated as if it were a personal choice on your part...I have never seen anyone be called out for saying they prefer to eat fresh fruit over food traditionally called "junk" food but I have seen lots of people purport that you have to give up "junk" food and "eat clean" in order to be successful and healthy. And that is where the problems arise.
7 -
When I came into MFP for reals this past September (I've had an account for years with very little clue on what to do with it), I spent a lot of time Googling and searching within MFP for "What is the MFP diet." Considering how many forums and threads there are on MFP, and explicit success stories around the "MFP diet" I was super curious. I was literally moments away from trying Medifast because I truly had NO idea how to lose weight. I had tried a year or so ago to work out a ton, wondering how I couldn't burn my entire calorie deficit at the gym.
It's because I had NO idea what a calorie deficit really was or how to create one.
But...I am a smart cookie and I did my research. I read everything pinned in the "Getting Started" forum when I was getting started before I even posted a single new thread here. Maybe it's because I'm a smart cookie and know how to Internet really well, and without risk of insulting some MFP members, some folks just ain't real bright. That's not to fault them, but maybe people truly don't have the mental capacity to understand how Internet forums work and that there are gobs of threads about apple cider vinegar, whole 30, detox and cleansing, etc. They aren't dumb. They aren't stupid. They just don't know what the hell they are doing or what to look for, and probably have been so influenced by friends and marketing on how to lose weight, they never had a chance of being anything but clueless.
By the time I read everything in Getting Started, I had a pretty good idea of what a calorie deficit is, how to figure out what to do to find my calorie deficit and set a daily calorie goal. Then, I drove my happy *kitten* to the store to buy a digital food scale. I threw away the crazy 1979 diet book my sister gave me and started weighing my food so I knew how many calories I was consuming.
Because it's all about CICO.
Does keto make people happy? Sure. Does IF make some people happy? Of course. Do any of those people keep losing weight if they don't have a calorie deficit. No. Do those plans work for me? Hell no. I need tater tots and Chick Fil A, because that's how I roll. Knowing CICO helped me realize I still get to be me while I lose weight--just a smaller, better version of me. And that has made all the difference.
I can't say whether people's tone is mean or not. I can say holy cow that people don't know how to use the Internet to find the information they are looking for, and it can be hella annoying for those of us who do.
To sum up: Maybe as good stewards of MFP and CICO, we point our detoxing ACV whole 30 friends to the pinned threads in each forum rather then asking them the rhetorical questions and kindly, gently let them know in our favorite infomercial voices that, "There's got to be a better way."
'Cause there is.
It's CICO.36 -
Some years back, I set a challenge for myself: every week do one recipe out of 1,000 Vegan Recipes in order. I started with Cajun popcorn in the snacks section and have gone through snacks, hot and cold appetizers, salads, soups, sandwiches, pizzas... And when I started MFP, I had just finished the Italian pastas and stuffed pastas and begun Asian noodles.
I've been making them fit my daily budget. Even if they are high-calorie*, I can make them work by having lower-calorie snacks. A typical breakfast for me is 1 cup of red seedless grapes with a fat-free Greek yogurt and a granola bar crumbled on top. Under 300 calories, but fills me up. Lunch might be a salad that includes 1/2 cup of corn and a sliced vegetarian hotdog. Also under 300 calories. Also filling.
Dessert? I just made a canteloupe sorbet for later. It's about 100 calories to the half-cup, but it doesn't taste 'healthy'.
Could I make healthier choices for some of my food picks? Sure. But would I stick with it for long? Doubtful. Overall, I'm eating well, I feel full, and my treats aren't cheats!
*They are also 1-pot meals. So before I start getting nervous at, say, 610 calories per serving, I remind myself that in addition to the noodles, I've got tofu or seitan, a whole mess of veggies (I've just now made a Korean stir-fry that uses seitan, carrots, onion, bok choy, shiitake, and scallion), so it's not as though I need anything else with the meal.3 -
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Similar to @fitoverfortymom except my first post was before reading everything in the stickies. I had a specific question, posted it and did not get a single response. Still no reply in that thread.
I read the stickies and lurked for a while. mostly because I wasn't sure what kind of garbage I was going to see in a diet forum. For me, the fact that the old time posters jumped in on what I thought were bad ideas, and some of them even referenced respectable studies, told me everything I needed to know and that I would fit in reasonably well.
But I've been around lots of different forums with lots of different moderation levels and interests and know my way around them. Even moderated a couple at one time (fishing related). So I know what can happen with first posts.
besides. I've always loved his video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2jNjOPdk 2 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »When I came into MFP for reals this past September (I've had an account for years with very little clue on what to do with it), I spent a lot of time Googling and searching within MFP for "What is the MFP diet." Considering how many forums and threads there are on MFP, and explicit success stories around the "MFP diet" I was super curious. I was literally moments away from trying Medifast because I truly had NO idea how to lose weight. I had tried a year or so ago to work out a ton, wondering how I couldn't burn my entire calorie deficit at the gym.
It's because I had NO idea what a calorie deficit really was or how to create one.
But...I am a smart cookie and I did my research. I read everything pinned in the "Getting Started" forum when I was getting started before I even posted a single new thread here. Maybe it's because I'm a smart cookie and know how to Internet really well, and without risk of insulting some MFP members, some folks just ain't real bright. That's not to fault them, but maybe people truly don't have the mental capacity to understand how Internet forums work and that there are gobs of threads about apple cider vinegar, whole 30, detox and cleansing, etc. They aren't dumb. They aren't stupid. They just don't know what the hell they are doing or what to look for, and probably have been so influenced by friends and marketing on how to lose weight, they never had a chance of being anything but clueless.
By the time I read everything in Getting Started, I had a pretty good idea of what a calorie deficit is, how to figure out what to do to find my calorie deficit and set a daily calorie goal. Then, I drove my happy *kitten* to the store to buy a digital food scale. I threw away the crazy 1979 diet book my sister gave me and started weighing my food so I knew how many calories I was consuming.
Because it's all about CICO.
Does keto make people happy? Sure. Does IF make some people happy? Of course. Do any of those people keep losing weight if they don't have a calorie deficit. No. Do those plans work for me? Hell no. I need tater tots and Chick Fil A, because that's how I roll. Knowing CICO helped me realize I still get to be me while I lose weight--just a smaller, better version of me. And that has made all the difference.
I can't say whether people's tone is mean or not. I can say holy cow that people don't know how to use the Internet to find the information they are looking for, and it can be hella annoying for those of us who do.
To sum up: Maybe as good stewards of MFP and CICO, we point our detoxing ACV whole 30 friends to the pinned threads in each forum rather then asking them the rhetorical questions and kindly, gently let them know in our favorite infomercial voices that, "There's got to be a better way."
'Cause there is.
It's CICO.
This is a great post. I wish I could give it more than one "awesome."2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I want to know where these well muscled young men are, I deserve a birthday treat.............
Me too. I'm obviously not following the right threads...
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diannethegeek wrote: »It's been my experience that every helpful poster on these forums, every single one, will be called rude, mean, negative, troll, bully, etc. at some point or another no matter how carefully they phrase their advice. Posts like this tend not to be very helpful. When every helpful poster is called out as mean at some point or another, then making a post like this without examples or qualifications just ends up pointing fingers at everyone.
There is some actual rudeness that goes above and beyond what should be acceptable here. Report it (use the actual report function not the flags) or call it out where you see it. But posts like this just add to the negative atmosphere that you're trying to combat instead of solving anything.
And if you want to see better, more nuanced advice on the boards, jump in and give it! Please. Those of us who try to help out get overwhelmed at this time of year. We can't answer everyone. We can't spend hours hand-holding someone who needs it. If you can do that, then help us! Instead of putting down those of us who are trying our best.
Diane nails it! Yes!4 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Skyblueyellow wrote: »I try to be very nice but I do get concerned about people who want to try diets that aren't sustainable. I don't want to see anyone fail because they erroneously believe that they "can't" have potatoes, or full fat dairy, or a glass of wine. I also don't want people to put their own health at risk. This whole weight loss thing is a journey and we need to come to terms with taking is slow, enjoying the journey, and learning how to eat in ways that make our bodies feel super great.
I'm diabetic and I accept that people on the forum will always want to know WHY a poster is considering a low carb diet. Personally, I respect that. I don't want a person thinking that they HAVE to eat this way to lose weight. It takes commitment and you really have to pay attention to your day as a whole. I've never had anyone be disrespectful to me about my choice. Maybe it is because I have a medical reason to moderate my carb intake. I have no idea. All I know is that I'm generally treated with respect here.
Some people CAN'T have some of those things. Why do so many people here not understand that some people can and some really can't? People are way too hung up on deciding that everyone can and should have everything any day and at anytime. This is just not the case for everyone. There needs to be more respect for others as no one here knows personally what is the case for an internet stranger. Some people really do have to avoid certain foods altogether. But there is this large crowd with criticism at the ready for anyone who feels they want to eliminate that which has been dragging them down. I don't see where that is ever going to help anyone.
I've never seen anybody here "not understand that some people can and some really can't" have certain foods or make certain dietary choices. I moderate carbs due to my own medical issues and preferences. I've never been told that is wrong to do. I've extremely limited certain foods due to a tendency to them being so tempting that I have a hard time eating them in moderation and I've never been told that is wrong to do either. Where are you seeing this happen?
Some time ago I had this happen from a "veteran" member.
After reading some of the labels on some foods that I was eating I decided to eliminate them instead of moderating them. I was told by this "veteran" that I would fail...I must have an eating disorder...I had no will power if I eliminated instead of moderating. There was no misunderstanding of what he said and what he meant.
The difference between me and the OP...I make my own choices and don't really care what someone else thinks. My decisions on what I eat are based on my own needs and the research that I have done.
This "veteran" went on my "pay no attention to list".
I think that there are several people on this site that have never participated on forums before. Many are much worse that this place...you have to develop tough skin sometimes to survive on the internet. I was a little surprised that a diet site could get so argumentative but at least so far no one has told that I deserved to be beaten, raped and murdered! LOL
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cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
and this is where the snark comes in.
Where did anyone ever say just eat ice cream or that eating whatever you want meant only eating treats etc...???? no where.
Weight loss vs health are two different things and the goals of people that come here are typically just to lose weight...they don't care how it's done just get that number down....they are on silly "diets" or think they can only eat certain types of foods and that treats are not allowed...they crash and burn and yo yo (speaking from experience)
So we tell them log your food....eat what you want with in that goal and you will lose weight you don't have to give up pizza and burgers...
Then you know what happens...about 10% have that light bulb moment and get that weight loss shouldn't be the ultimate goal that it can be about getting healthy too...speaking from experience.
This---because when people are logging correctly they are nudged in the healthier direction, because eating high calorie treats burns up their calorie budget pretty fast. They slowly turn to fruits and veggies, with a treat now and again.5 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
This is a great post. I wish I could give it more than one "awesome."
Thank you! It's my personal best.
4 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »When I came into MFP for reals this past September (I've had an account for years with very little clue on what to do with it), I spent a lot of time Googling and searching within MFP for "What is the MFP diet." Considering how many forums and threads there are on MFP, and explicit success stories around the "MFP diet" I was super curious. I was literally moments away from trying Medifast because I truly had NO idea how to lose weight. I had tried a year or so ago to work out a ton, wondering how I couldn't burn my entire calorie deficit at the gym.
It's because I had NO idea what a calorie deficit really was or how to create one.
But...I am a smart cookie and I did my research. I read everything pinned in the "Getting Started" forum when I was getting started before I even posted a single new thread here. Maybe it's because I'm a smart cookie and know how to Internet really well, and without risk of insulting some MFP members, some folks just ain't real bright. That's not to fault them, but maybe people truly don't have the mental capacity to understand how Internet forums work and that there are gobs of threads about apple cider vinegar, whole 30, detox and cleansing, etc. They aren't dumb. They aren't stupid. They just don't know what the hell they are doing or what to look for, and probably have been so influenced by friends and marketing on how to lose weight, they never had a chance of being anything but clueless.
By the time I read everything in Getting Started, I had a pretty good idea of what a calorie deficit is, how to figure out what to do to find my calorie deficit and set a daily calorie goal. Then, I drove my happy *kitten* to the store to buy a digital food scale. I threw away the crazy 1979 diet book my sister gave me and started weighing my food so I knew how many calories I was consuming.
Because it's all about CICO.
Does keto make people happy? Sure. Does IF make some people happy? Of course. Do any of those people keep losing weight if they don't have a calorie deficit. No. Do those plans work for me? Hell no. I need tater tots and Chick Fil A, because that's how I roll. Knowing CICO helped me realize I still get to be me while I lose weight--just a smaller, better version of me. And that has made all the difference.
I can't say whether people's tone is mean or not. I can say holy cow that people don't know how to use the Internet to find the information they are looking for, and it can be hella annoying for those of us who do.
To sum up: Maybe as good stewards of MFP and CICO, we point our detoxing ACV whole 30 friends to the pinned threads in each forum rather then asking them the rhetorical questions and kindly, gently let them know in our favorite infomercial voices that, "There's got to be a better way."
'Cause there is.
It's CICO.
I think I love you.1 -
snowflake954 wrote: »fitoverfortymom wrote: »When I came into MFP for reals this past September (I've had an account for years with very little clue on what to do with it), I spent a lot of time Googling and searching within MFP for "What is the MFP diet." Considering how many forums and threads there are on MFP, and explicit success stories around the "MFP diet" I was super curious. I was literally moments away from trying Medifast because I truly had NO idea how to lose weight. I had tried a year or so ago to work out a ton, wondering how I couldn't burn my entire calorie deficit at the gym.
It's because I had NO idea what a calorie deficit really was or how to create one.
But...I am a smart cookie and I did my research. I read everything pinned in the "Getting Started" forum when I was getting started before I even posted a single new thread here. Maybe it's because I'm a smart cookie and know how to Internet really well, and without risk of insulting some MFP members, some folks just ain't real bright. That's not to fault them, but maybe people truly don't have the mental capacity to understand how Internet forums work and that there are gobs of threads about apple cider vinegar, whole 30, detox and cleansing, etc. They aren't dumb. They aren't stupid. They just don't know what the hell they are doing or what to look for, and probably have been so influenced by friends and marketing on how to lose weight, they never had a chance of being anything but clueless.
By the time I read everything in Getting Started, I had a pretty good idea of what a calorie deficit is, how to figure out what to do to find my calorie deficit and set a daily calorie goal. Then, I drove my happy *kitten* to the store to buy a digital food scale. I threw away the crazy 1979 diet book my sister gave me and started weighing my food so I knew how many calories I was consuming.
Because it's all about CICO.
Does keto make people happy? Sure. Does IF make some people happy? Of course. Do any of those people keep losing weight if they don't have a calorie deficit. No. Do those plans work for me? Hell no. I need tater tots and Chick Fil A, because that's how I roll. Knowing CICO helped me realize I still get to be me while I lose weight--just a smaller, better version of me. And that has made all the difference.
I can't say whether people's tone is mean or not. I can say holy cow that people don't know how to use the Internet to find the information they are looking for, and it can be hella annoying for those of us who do.
To sum up: Maybe as good stewards of MFP and CICO, we point our detoxing ACV whole 30 friends to the pinned threads in each forum rather then asking them the rhetorical questions and kindly, gently let them know in our favorite infomercial voices that, "There's got to be a better way."
'Cause there is.
It's CICO.
I think I love you.
Mfp match making, love it:)2 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »When I came into MFP for reals this past September (I've had an account for years with very little clue on what to do with it), I spent a lot of time Googling and searching within MFP for "What is the MFP diet." Considering how many forums and threads there are on MFP, and explicit success stories around the "MFP diet" I was super curious. I was literally moments away from trying Medifast because I truly had NO idea how to lose weight. I had tried a year or so ago to work out a ton, wondering how I couldn't burn my entire calorie deficit at the gym.
It's because I had NO idea what a calorie deficit really was or how to create one.
But...I am a smart cookie and I did my research. I read everything pinned in the "Getting Started" forum when I was getting started before I even posted a single new thread here. Maybe it's because I'm a smart cookie and know how to Internet really well, and without risk of insulting some MFP members, some folks just ain't real bright. That's not to fault them, but maybe people truly don't have the mental capacity to understand how Internet forums work and that there are gobs of threads about apple cider vinegar, whole 30, detox and cleansing, etc. They aren't dumb. They aren't stupid. They just don't know what the hell they are doing or what to look for, and probably have been so influenced by friends and marketing on how to lose weight, they never had a chance of being anything but clueless.
By the time I read everything in Getting Started, I had a pretty good idea of what a calorie deficit is, how to figure out what to do to find my calorie deficit and set a daily calorie goal. Then, I drove my happy *kitten* to the store to buy a digital food scale. I threw away the crazy 1979 diet book my sister gave me and started weighing my food so I knew how many calories I was consuming.
Because it's all about CICO.
Does keto make people happy? Sure. Does IF make some people happy? Of course. Do any of those people keep losing weight if they don't have a calorie deficit. No. Do those plans work for me? Hell no. I need tater tots and Chick Fil A, because that's how I roll. Knowing CICO helped me realize I still get to be me while I lose weight--just a smaller, better version of me. And that has made all the difference.
I can't say whether people's tone is mean or not. I can say holy cow that people don't know how to use the Internet to find the information they are looking for, and it can be hella annoying for those of us who do.
To sum up: Maybe as good stewards of MFP and CICO, we point our detoxing ACV whole 30 friends to the pinned threads in each forum rather then asking them the rhetorical questions and kindly, gently let them know in our favorite infomercial voices that, "There's got to be a better way."
'Cause there is.
It's CICO.
3 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Skyblueyellow wrote: »I try to be very nice but I do get concerned about people who want to try diets that aren't sustainable. I don't want to see anyone fail because they erroneously believe that they "can't" have potatoes, or full fat dairy, or a glass of wine. I also don't want people to put their own health at risk. This whole weight loss thing is a journey and we need to come to terms with taking is slow, enjoying the journey, and learning how to eat in ways that make our bodies feel super great.
I'm diabetic and I accept that people on the forum will always want to know WHY a poster is considering a low carb diet. Personally, I respect that. I don't want a person thinking that they HAVE to eat this way to lose weight. It takes commitment and you really have to pay attention to your day as a whole. I've never had anyone be disrespectful to me about my choice. Maybe it is because I have a medical reason to moderate my carb intake. I have no idea. All I know is that I'm generally treated with respect here.
Some people CAN'T have some of those things. Why do so many people here not understand that some people can and some really can't? People are way too hung up on deciding that everyone can and should have everything any day and at anytime. This is just not the case for everyone. There needs to be more respect for others as no one here knows personally what is the case for an internet stranger. Some people really do have to avoid certain foods altogether. But there is this large crowd with criticism at the ready for anyone who feels they want to eliminate that which has been dragging them down. I don't see where that is ever going to help anyone.
I've never seen anybody here "not understand that some people can and some really can't" have certain foods or make certain dietary choices. I moderate carbs due to my own medical issues and preferences. I've never been told that is wrong to do. I've extremely limited certain foods due to a tendency to them being so tempting that I have a hard time eating them in moderation and I've never been told that is wrong to do either. Where are you seeing this happen?
Some time ago I had this happen from a "veteran" member.
After reading some of the labels on some foods that I was eating I decided to eliminate them instead of moderating them. I was told by this "veteran" that I would fail...I must have an eating disorder...I had no will power if I eliminated instead of moderating. There was no misunderstanding of what he said and what he meant.
The difference between me and the OP...I make my own choices and don't really care what someone else thinks. My decisions on what I eat are based on my own needs and the research that I have done.
This "veteran" went on my "pay no attention to list".
I think that there are several people on this site that have never participated on forums before. Many are much worse that this place...you have to develop tough skin sometimes to survive on the internet. I was a little surprised that a diet site could get so argumentative but at least so far no one has told that I deserved to be beaten, raped and murdered! LOL
Thank you for posting an actual example. I appreciate it as so many times we get told that we are mean or do this or that and then there are no actual examples given. I think that you handled it well and know what you are doing in that you realize that when it comes down to it, you have to make decisions based on what you know about yourself AND you are on top of researching things.
And I completely agree with your last paragraph.2 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Skyblueyellow wrote: »I try to be very nice but I do get concerned about people who want to try diets that aren't sustainable. I don't want to see anyone fail because they erroneously believe that they "can't" have potatoes, or full fat dairy, or a glass of wine. I also don't want people to put their own health at risk. This whole weight loss thing is a journey and we need to come to terms with taking is slow, enjoying the journey, and learning how to eat in ways that make our bodies feel super great.
I'm diabetic and I accept that people on the forum will always want to know WHY a poster is considering a low carb diet. Personally, I respect that. I don't want a person thinking that they HAVE to eat this way to lose weight. It takes commitment and you really have to pay attention to your day as a whole. I've never had anyone be disrespectful to me about my choice. Maybe it is because I have a medical reason to moderate my carb intake. I have no idea. All I know is that I'm generally treated with respect here.
Some people CAN'T have some of those things. Why do so many people here not understand that some people can and some really can't? People are way too hung up on deciding that everyone can and should have everything any day and at anytime. This is just not the case for everyone. There needs to be more respect for others as no one here knows personally what is the case for an internet stranger. Some people really do have to avoid certain foods altogether. But there is this large crowd with criticism at the ready for anyone who feels they want to eliminate that which has been dragging them down. I don't see where that is ever going to help anyone.
Never seen that. I've seen people question why someone wants to eliminate something, but never seen anyone say you have to eat a certain way. Two very different things. I think you are reading into it something not there. But feel free to show me a post where someone is told they must eat everything.
I have seen quite a few times sentences such as "No one who cares about their health should ever put X in their mouth" though. Funny innit?6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
One bowl of ice cream is nowhere near enough to "starve the rest of the day". And the only way you don't eat ice cream for breakfast is by telling yourself you can't have any ice cream at all ever?8 -
late...but in...for the MFP forum tone debate....2
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stevencloser wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
One bowl of ice cream is nowhere near enough to "starve the rest of the day". And the only way you don't eat ice cream for breakfast is by telling yourself you can't have any ice cream at all ever?
To be fair, that depends on the size of the bowl. This is where we have to separate eating what we want to from eating how much we want to. There are some foods that I don't eat more than once or twice a year because I only like to eat them in large enough quantities that they really limit what I eat the rest of the day.
I just had a conversation with my husband about this over lunch today. I don't eat tomato soup with saltines anymore because I only like that combo when I can use an entire sleeve (or more) of saltines in one bowl of soup. That's something like 550 calories of just crackers, which would be a splurge for me because that kind of cracker intake wouldn't do much to get me to my protein and fat goals for the day.
None of that overrides the truth of CICO, of course.0 -
MelanieCN77 wrote: »I actually agree in the sense that people should think about their tone - just because a veteran user of the forums has heard xyz a hundred times before doesn't give them the right to talk to people like they are idiots. I like to eat fresh prepared food from fresh ingredients and I think it's healthier for me to snack on an apple instead of cheetos but that opinion just gets scorned and patronized. It's so reductionist it's almost comical. I'd like to see newcomers with questions about cleanses or sugar or whatever treated gently and with respect, not this sneering three word answer rudeness that comes so often now.
who is advocating cheetos over apples?1 -
AngelinaB_ wrote: »It is different for everybody. I have tried CICO alone esting what I want and at some point I feel I also need to control or avoid certain food groups, along with CICO. And the inflammation thingy becomes a problem for many people after 40 but not all. It is a pain in the butt and gets muxh better when avoiding or limiting certain foods. Some ways of eating promotes CICO too at least for me. I know if I eat a lot of starchy carbs specifically breads I get hungrier and want to keep eating whereas if I eat proteins I don't tent to overeat. So, yes. CICO matters, food choices matters, everything matters. But it is different to everybody so
CICO is a math formula, it has nothing to do with food choice.4 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »I could NOT agree more. This is not a one size fits all thing at all. Some people do have medical snags that keep it from being as easy as it is for others. When the calories in vs calories out gets complicated is when someones calories are not as easy to get out as others. When a person's BMR is very low even with plenty of exercise it is much more difficult because the calories in that person's allowance are also very low. And that's not always easy to maintain.
When I was in my 20's it seemed like the weight would just fall right off if I gained any. Now twice as old it is definitely not just that easy. I am glad to see this post because there are a LOT of people here who need to learn to understand this very thing.
even with a medical condition, it is still CICO ...
2 -
stevencloser wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
One bowl of ice cream is nowhere near enough to "starve the rest of the day". And the only way you don't eat ice cream for breakfast is by telling yourself you can't have any ice cream at all ever?
To be fair, that depends on the size of the bowl. This is where we have to separate eating what we want to from eating how much we want to. There are some foods that I don't eat more than once or twice a year because I only like to eat them in large enough quantities that they really limit what I eat the rest of the day.
I just had a conversation with my husband about this over lunch today. I don't eat tomato soup with saltines anymore because I only like that combo when I can use an entire sleeve (or more) of saltines in one bowl of soup. That's something like 550 calories of just crackers, which would be a splurge for me because that kind of cracker intake wouldn't do much to get me to my protein and fat goals for the day.
None of that overrides the truth of CICO, of course.
YES! Another person that eats a whole sleeve of saltines with tomato soup! My husband thinks I am nuts. A couple of weeks ago, I skipped breakfast and lunch just so I could have my tomato soup, saltines (whole sleeve) and grilled cheese. I had been craving it, so I planned it and went for it!4 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Silliness about my eating habits aside, @ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken where has someone insisted people eat junk. I've never seen it, just that you do not have to cut it out completely if you don't want to.
That is the point I try to make, you don't have to cut out a food group if you don't want to. When people post and say I know I have to stop eating x,y,z to lose weight people will tell them that is not true.
OP
The post that really bother a lot of people I Think are the ones saying I was told I can eat as much of A,B, and C but can't have X,Y, and Z if I want to lose weight. People will respond by explaining CICO because it seems the person is confused. People are not trying to be mean but are trying to explain in a straight forward way.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »For the record I just think that sayingeat whatever you want/the only thing that matters is cico is simply over-simplified to the point of being untrue.
Of course technically if you stay under your calorie goal you'll lose weight BUT what you eat (your level of satiety, your energy level, etc) has an immense contribution to how difficult/ easy/sustainable it is.
It's on the same level as saying there's no such thing as a plateau/stall...you know perfectly well that all they mean os that their scale has stopped moving and they don't know why...or that muscle doesn't weigh more than fat...don't be ridiculous, its perfectly obvious that people assume you are comparing like volumes.
I think it's difficult to remember after seeing so many of the exact.same.ridiculous.question we forget that it's still new to the person asking it. They truly don't know and if the goal really is to help them than be welcoming and kind not snarky and sarcastic to amuse your friends.
I disagree very much...that was exactly what got me going. I had tried a few different diet plans over the years and always lasted about two weeks because all of them had me going from eating like X to eating like Y overnight or they were super restrictive, etc...I crashed and burned every single time.
When I figured out that I could eat what I was eating, just less, that was a big time start for me...it wasn't the end, just a start and something I was able to work with and evolve my diet from there. It made things very easy and made the transition to eating better much easier.
Well...I guess we agree to disagree...some of us can't eat whatever we want because we'd eat one bowl of ice cream for breakfast and starve the rest of the day. You need to be clearer about what you mean...that's what I mean by over simplified.
Eta: god the typos.
One bowl of ice cream is nowhere near enough to "starve the rest of the day". And the only way you don't eat ice cream for breakfast is by telling yourself you can't have any ice cream at all ever?
To be fair, that depends on the size of the bowl. This is where we have to separate eating what we want to from eating how much we want to. There are some foods that I don't eat more than once or twice a year because I only like to eat them in large enough quantities that they really limit what I eat the rest of the day.
I just had a conversation with my husband about this over lunch today. I don't eat tomato soup with saltines anymore because I only like that combo when I can use an entire sleeve (or more) of saltines in one bowl of soup. That's something like 550 calories of just crackers, which would be a splurge for me because that kind of cracker intake wouldn't do much to get me to my protein and fat goals for the day.
None of that overrides the truth of CICO, of course.
YES! Another person that eats a whole sleeve of saltines with tomato soup! My husband thinks I am nuts. A couple of weeks ago, I skipped breakfast and lunch just so I could have my tomato soup, saltines (whole sleeve) and grilled cheese. I had been craving it, so I planned it and went for it!
You guys are eating your tomato soup wrong-Fritos goes in the soup, not puny crackers
1 -
This is a public forum, anyone can join, anyone can post a question, anyone can reply with an answer. It's like if you stood on a busy street in front of a restaurant, stopped every person who walked by, and said "Is this the best restaurant in the city? From what I've read, if you want a good meal, you HAVE to eat here!". And then decided this was an awful street because you got some answers you didn't like, either in info or in tone.
I have seen a few replies, even from peeps I normally agree with and admire, that can be a little harsh or short. Life happens. no one is perfect. And even if there is a vaguely rude reply, there is usually also several helpful and polite replies. Disagreeing with someone, correcting bad info, and refusing to say "I'm okay, you're okay" to everyone no matter how wrong-headed their plan or advice is, is not mean, it's not bullying, it's not attacking. It's adults having an honest discussion. It can be uncomfortable and frustrating to find out not everyone agrees with you, but sometimes you need to put on your big-girl pants, decide if it's worth arguing about it or not, and either learn from it or ignore it.
I'm a polite, quiet, and introverted person. I often find people to be rude and inconsiderate IRL. And after several years, I am constantly impressed by the level of information and discussion happening here, and often disheartened at the many knowledgeable posters who wander off because they get tired of being criticized because they don't include three pages of fine print exclusions and supplementary info with the advice they give, or aren't supportive enough when relaying info.
You over-simplified, you sounded impatient, you didn't ask enough questions, you asked too many questions, you didn't consider this, it was rude to consider that, you were condescending to think I wouldn't understand that, you shouldn't have assumed people would understand that. It's free advice people, take it or leave it. To criticize a place where you can get free opinions from people of all different ages, fitness levels, countries, and viewpoints to help you find the way that's right for you because not everyone answers the way you think they should seems short-sighted to me. Take the good, leave the bad. <shrug>16 -
OP - I've noticed that we here rarely just answer a question. If you ask how to sew on a button, we'll tell you that zippers are better, hook&loop more fun, snaps scientifically proven to improve your closure experience...
You're absolutely right. Sometimes this turns out to be a good thing, like when someone asks about easy to digest foods, we'll suggest she get a pregnancy test, and turn out to be wiser than the MD, emergency room, and naturopath
6
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