Done with it!
Replies
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allenpriest wrote: »Hey OP
I get it.
Me too.
trigdon1991 you exemplify the problem
Bye
What about us other middle aged women on the post chiming in agreeing with Trigden? Don't we count?
I've lost 94 pounds agreeing with Trigden.27 -
trigden1991 wrote: »I don't consider myself "super well muscled" but I am a (relatively) young man.
Its all a matter of CICO.....................
@Izzy62
Can't argue with dem bulges. I always enjoy your posts!! *love in*2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm a 54 year old woman with medical conditions who thinks it's all CICO.
50 year old women here ... yep, all CICO.
You do have to figure out how you want to approach CICO ... obviously we're going to eat different things ... personally, I made the decision to eat only foods I like ... but it's all CICO. Or more specifically CI<CO.
50 lbs lost.7 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I totally agree with what you're saying and will recount something I encountered just this week.
A discussion thread was posted by a person who felt they were a sugar addict. I made a comment with just a few sentences about perhaps starting out easy by removing common complex carbs, eating more above ground than low ground veggies and for fruit perhaps berries or rockmelon. Not once did I mention that I myself follow a LCHF way of eating. My view is that people will either take something from the comments or not.. it is their choice.
Well.... ping goes my inbox.
A member PM'd me about my comment and saying 'clueless about loosing weight, huh', my response was that perhaps their opinion should be posted on the thread rather than being sent as a PM. That resulted in name calling.
Couple of things about this,
a) If I were just starting out this type of behaviour would likely have been enough to scare me off... however I've lost 83lbs with only 7lb to go... think I know after nearly 3 years what works for me
b) what gives anyone the right to go on a personal attack because they hold a contrary view?
We're mostly all here for the same reason... to lose weight, get healthy, share ideas and opinions and look for support.
Personal attacks and name calling are wrong, and should be reported and dealt with.
Open forthright debate between adults is perfectly fine and a healthy endeavour.
How do you report PMs?
Email a mod or Alex. There's got to be a way to forward or copy the sender info too, that I'm sure they could help with. That's what I'd do.
This rest is obviously not directed at TavistockToad but at the specific behavior that I am referring to (that I have never seen TT do):
I find it really inappropriate and even shocking that people conflate getting rude and unsolicited emails with being disagreed with on the forums and even bring it up as if people disagreeing with them openly were also harassing them. Seems like an intent to cast false aspersions, to me, and the fact is they know who is emailing them, as you can't send a PM in MFP without having a user name, etc. (and having multiples is not permitted and I believe easily caught once they know). So if someone is PMing you and you don't like it, out them or report them. DON'T imply it's some unnamed person in the discussion in an effort to cast yourself as a victim as everyone else as some kind of mean stalker.15 -
Lol, OP won't respond on this anymore, as she mentioned " I'm done with reading these forums."5
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My fist post I was told my thinking was fanciful and silly to name a few.
BUT if I don't take feedback I'm not growing.
I am grateful for what some call "mean" and "snarky" posts. I've learned more on this forum about a sustainable way of eating then I have in 30 years of yoyo'ing. But perhaps I realized what I was doing to maintain my weight losses failed and I was ready for help!
Thank goodness restrictive diets are a thing of the past for me!!! Thanks to this forum.
No one cares what woe one chooses low fat, high fat, no sugar, vegan, as long as they know other than for medical reasons they don't HAVE to eat that way if they don't WANT to. Sadly so many people don't know that!
I bet if a new poster opened with...im cutting out all bacon, red meat and fats - the same types of things would be said...are you cutting for medical reasons? Why would you do that? You dont have to cut it out to lose weight all you need is a calorie deficit. Cutting fat too much is dangerous.
14 -
Back to the topic/OP's post:Every post which mentions an alternative diet choice is promptly and efficiently, put down with a comment such as "why cut it out?" "It's all a matter of CICO" .
As someone who has cut things out for a period of time and tried different dietary choices (and eats somewhat low carb or lowish carb now, as well as being quite focused on nutrition), I don't understand what's wrong with these questions. Weight loss IS about CICO, but of course that's not the only thing you might be concerned about, and that's easy to explain (and personally I don't think those comments come when someone says "I am trying to eat a healthier diet" but "I am doing a juice fast" or the like, or "I am drinking ACV," which really AREN'T about health, IMO). As for why cut it out, when I choose to cut something out I have a reason and am generally happy to explain or just say "I have reasons, I know it's not necessary for weight loss, but none of your business." IME with these threads, most people who react badly to those questions assume it IS necessary for weight loss, that it obviously is, and dislike the idea that it is not. And that so many people think such things are necessary is why -- for the readers generally -- it's valuable to point out that it is not.There is nothing "wrong" with trying a low carb diet, it may or may not be right for you. Try low fat, try just eating less of everything. Just try until you find what works for you.
Totally agree with all this, and have never said otherwise. Nor do I see people in general saying otherwise, so I wonder why you think you are seeing that.
What I see is people making assertions (like "do a low carb diet, it's the best way to lose weight" and others saying "no, it's a fine way to lose if you want to, but NOT the only or best way for all"). Yet sometimes people are so into their current diet that they misinterpret "you don't have to do that to lose" or "you don't have to do that to be healthy" or "I disagree that eating that way is inherently more healthy" for intolerance for them choosing that diet. But that's obviously not the case and complaining that someone is upset with your personal choices because they disagree they are the best ones for everyone is, well, odd and suggests a problem with hearing information that disagrees with your own views, i.e., a problem with discussion in general.Ultimately, yes it boils down to CICO, but they way people get to that is their own business and they are here because they are looking for advice on the choice they have made. It is not inherently unhealthy to eat paleo, nor low carb, nor low fat, it is definitely unhealthy to remain overweight.
Mostly agree, but if someone asks about paleo and I give advice on being paleo and also give my reasons (gently) for not being paleo anymore and for thinking it's claims are bunk, while still thinking it can be a decent choice for some, I don't think that's inappropriate or mean. You seem to want to protect people from any ideas that they don't already hold, which I find puzzling. If I posted a question or started a thread I'd certainly not expect not to have to hear anything I disliked or disagreed with. (If I wanted only to hear that paleo or whatever is the best and only way, there are certainly forums for that and even groups here.)Just give people a bit of a break and try encouraging their decision to help themselves by losing the weight, not always putting down the way they choose to do it.
As someone else said, it's ironic that the people getting slammed in these kinds of threads ARE the people who devote a lot of time to trying to help others. Almost always the people complaining about how others post never post help themselves, or at least not that I've seen. (Or sometimes they are the people who pop into numerous threads to tell the OP to give up sugar or do keto or eat "clean" or stop eating back exercise calories or some such when the OP has not expressed such a desire.)11 -
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It is different for everybody. I have tried CICO alone esting what I want and at some point I feel I also need to control or avoid certain food groups, along with CICO. And the inflammation thingy becomes a problem for many people after 40 but not all. It is a pain in the butt and gets muxh better when avoiding or limiting certain foods. Some ways of eating promotes CICO too at least for me. I know if I eat a lot of starchy carbs specifically breads I get hungrier and want to keep eating whereas if I eat proteins I don't tent to overeat. So, yes. CICO matters, food choices matters, everything matters. But it is different to everybody so3
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Your time is never wasted---lurkers, lurkers.........8 -
AngelinaB_ wrote: »I know if I eat a lot of starchy carbs specifically breads I get hungrier and want to keep eating whereas if I eat proteins I don't tent to overeat. So, yes. CICO matters, food choices matters, everything matters. But it is different to everybody so
No one says food choice doesn't matter for satiety or nutrition.8 -
So to sum up.
Everyone can have an opinion, but no one can have an opinion. All opinions, which we cant have, no matter how terrible, must be welcomed with butterflies and unicorns. No points must be debated or questioned. No advice is to be given that flies in the face of the original opinion, which we can't have in the first place. Everything must be encouraged.
Gotcha.
Anyone tried ACV?
Ha yeah, pretty much this
OP-I'm a 38 year old mom of three kids, who's intelligent with a BA in English and Political Science and is currently homeschooling my kids, and who used to be overweight and a pre-diabetic. I've lost around 50lbs, have improved all my health markers including normalizing my glucose number into the 80s and 90s, and I'm now one of the few people who are successfully maintaining weight loss, as well as being a participant of the NWCR. And I got to where I am today because of CICO.
I wish you the best of luck and hope you find success with your goals.6 -
allenpriest wrote: »Hey OP
I get it.
Me too.
trigdon1991 you exemplify the problem
Bye
I'm most offended that you didn't spell my name correctly.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »allenpriest wrote: »Hey OP
I get it.
Me too.
trigdon1991 you exemplify the problem
Bye
What about us other middle aged women on the post chiming in agreeing with Trigden? Don't we count?
I've lost 94 pounds agreeing with Trigden.
I never you knew I was such an inspiration. Glad I could help
All joking aside, this thread is ridiculously stereotypical and a bit pointless. If you don't like people posting their opinions or even science based facts then no one is forcing you to read the forums.10 -
The real truth? Most people here are overweight and have not been successful with weight loss, won't be successful long term and they give bad advice. There are also many, many successful people who give good advice but they won't give you excuses. CICO is how weight loss works no matter what your body us like. It doesn't tackle health issues, but it does help with losing pounds. You're looking for health advice which is just foolish on a free website. There's a reason people make a living giving health advice. Go to a professional if you have health issues. It's honestly your own fault for replacing a real medical professional with people on a forum. Come on now.6
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The real truth? Most people here are overweight and have not been successful with weight loss, won't be successful long term and they give bad advice. There are also many, many successful people who give good advice but they won't give you excuses. CICO is how weight loss works no matter what your body us like. It doesn't tackle health issues, but it does help with losing pounds. You're looking for health advice which is just foolish on a free website. There's a reason people make a living giving health advice. Go to a professional if you have health issues. It's honestly your own fault for replacing a real medical professional with people on a forum. Come on now.
Many people find that by losing the extra weight it does help with health issues though. It normalized high glucose numbers for me and there's others here who have shared their own stories of weight loss improving their health markers and correcting/reducing severity of medical conditions.
eta: https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/weight-control/health_risks_being_overweight/Pages/health-risks-being-overweight.aspx3 -
Not my food choices, I'm happy with what I am doing, I'm done with reading these forums.
I'm done with reading comments from super well muscled young men (looking at the picture - may or may not be you) telling me, a 55 year old, overweight, intelligent, pre-diabetic woman that it is all CICO.
Every post which mentions an alternative diet choice is promptly and efficiently, put down with a comment such as "why cut it out?" "It's all a matter of CICO" .
Choosing an eating plan is sometimes way more than a choice to cut out certain things, it may be the thing that saves people's lives, makes them feel better (physically or psychologically), or may be advice from someone medically trained.
There is nothing "wrong" with trying a low carb diet, it may or may not be right for you. Try low fat, try just eating less of everything. Just try until you find what works for you.
Ultimately, yes it boils down to CICO, but they way people get to that is their own business and they are here because they are looking for advice on the choice they have made. It is not inherently unhealthy to eat paleo, nor low carb, nor low fat, it is definitely unhealthy to remain overweight.
Just give people a bit of a break and try encouraging their decision to help themselves by losing the weight, not always putting down the way they choose to do it.
amen.. i never understand why you can't just answer someone's question without belittling them. we are just pefectly mperfect humans trying to make better choices.5 -
EttaMaeMartin wrote: »Not my food choices, I'm happy with what I am doing, I'm done with reading these forums.
I'm done with reading comments from super well muscled young men (looking at the picture - may or may not be you) telling me, a 55 year old, overweight, intelligent, pre-diabetic woman that it is all CICO.
Every post which mentions an alternative diet choice is promptly and efficiently, put down with a comment such as "why cut it out?" "It's all a matter of CICO" .
Choosing an eating plan is sometimes way more than a choice to cut out certain things, it may be the thing that saves people's lives, makes them feel better (physically or psychologically), or may be advice from someone medically trained.
There is nothing "wrong" with trying a low carb diet, it may or may not be right for you. Try low fat, try just eating less of everything. Just try until you find what works for you.
Ultimately, yes it boils down to CICO, but they way people get to that is their own business and they are here because they are looking for advice on the choice they have made. It is not inherently unhealthy to eat paleo, nor low carb, nor low fat, it is definitely unhealthy to remain overweight.
Just give people a bit of a break and try encouraging their decision to help themselves by losing the weight, not always putting down the way they choose to do it.
amen.. i never understand why you can't just answer someone's question without belittling them. we are just pefectly mperfect humans trying to make better choices.
Can you provide any examples of people being belittled?
When did it become an offence to offer advice contrary to someone's preconceived beliefs or raise a point for debate if you believe it to be inaccurate?
13 -
There's a few ideas here so bear with me. I think there is a huge knowledge base here BUT I think there's also a lot of people that weigh into medical issues when they don't know what they don't know.
CI<CO is the 'formula' for weight loss, but weight loss and health are linked, yes - but not synonymous.
I work in health care (clinical nurse; irrelevant online) and I cringe at the number of people telling people 'eat whatever you want' so long as the caloric balance is right.
Losing weight alone DOES improve health, but it is not ALL there is to health and I feel that often that message is lost here.
Sure, some people are knowledgeable. Others parrot the same lines without any deeper context and that in itself can be dangerous to a new or uneducated forum user.
This app is after all called 'my fitness pal' not my weight loss pal.
7 -
In my experience, and its something of an internet phenomenon, not just mfp - when people either/and
a) disagree
b) get to the point
The original poster gets butthurt and starts to complain about mean people putting them down.
It is no such thing, but welcome to modern life.
It is very common for newbies to this site to start threads (wanting immediate recognition, rather than just reading around and finding the info) about how they are going paleo/vegan/doing a cleanse/hitting the ACV...
Some sort of extreme, or gimmicky, or frankly ridiculous diet choice - as a starting point to losing weight.
I really believe most of the time its ignorance on their part, they have been sucked in by some advertising/woo/broscience and think its the solution to their weight problems.
Pointing out that ultimately CICO is what works is not being mean, it is doing them a valuable service.
Pointing out that you dont need to drink vinegar, give up carbs, exclude red foodstuffs... to lose weight is essential.
If someone has all the facts, and chooses LCHF (for example) as a means to achieving their goals, fine - good for them - they made an informed decision.
However, just entertaining an ill-informed notion at the outset? Thats not doing anyone any favours.
And, as per my original point, making a factual statement as to the crux of the issue is the opposite of being mean, and actual grown ups really should know this.19 -
I appreciate the people offering help on these forums, whether they are well muscled young guys or middle aged women. It was a great relief to learn I didn't have to follow any particular diet while losing weight. I've learned a lot about food, energy balance and science. I'm so happy diet coke won't kill me and that I didn't need to eat salads and drink apple cider vinegar and quit beer and cheesecake. I just don't see this putting down of how people choose to eat. I see people offering alternatives in case the people posting aren't aware they don't HAVE to eat low carb or paleo or whatever to be successful. I also see people offering those ways of eating as options if it will work best for someone. I love the MFP forums!13
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There's a few ideas here so bear with me. I think there is a huge knowledge base here BUT I think there's also a lot of people that weigh into medical issues when they don't know what they don't know.
CI<CO is the 'formula' for weight loss, but weight loss and health are linked, yes - but not synonymous.
I work in health care (clinical nurse; irrelevant online) and I cringe at the number of people telling people 'eat whatever you want' so long as the caloric balance is right.
Losing weight alone DOES improve health, but it is not ALL there is to health and I feel that often that message is lost here.
Sure, some people are knowledgeable. Others parrot the same lines without any deeper context and that in itself can be dangerous to a new or uneducated forum user.
This app is after all called 'my fitness pal' not my weight loss pal.
To a degree this can be true but I find it's often because someone hasn't disclosed a medical condition/disclosed all facts pertinent to their query that results in largely generic but helpful advice. If someone does disclose then the advice is more measured and people are directed to clear anything with their medical professional. But CICO still applies to everyone, medical condition or not, safety (from a medical perspective) to currently lose weight or not.
I think the insinuation people are reckless with advice is largely unfair and untrue, as usual with threads like these, I'd love to be provided with evidence. I find it's often an issue of personal interpretation of tone and intent rather than factual inaccuracy.15 -
There's a few ideas here so bear with me. I think there is a huge knowledge base here BUT I think there's also a lot of people that weigh into medical issues when they don't know what they don't know.
CI<CO is the 'formula' for weight loss, but weight loss and health are linked, yes - but not synonymous.
I work in health care (clinical nurse; irrelevant online) and I cringe at the number of people telling people 'eat whatever you want' so long as the caloric balance is right.
Losing weight alone DOES improve health, but it is not ALL there is to health and I feel that often that message is lost here.
Sure, some people are knowledgeable. Others parrot the same lines without any deeper context and that in itself can be dangerous to a new or uneducated forum user.
This app is after all called 'my fitness pal' not my weight loss pal.
If those on here moaning about not losing weight gave a crap about their health they would get educated on weight loss in a healthy manner but most don't care...all they want is the scale to go down period....and they don't care how that gets done.
And why not eat what you want???? Have you read the story of the high school biology teacher who ate Micky Dees for a month lost weight lowered his blood pressure and cholesterol numbers??? his students helped out as part of their mark...
There is nothing wrong with eating what you want...because at some point if you are more interested in health than the scale you get to where eating fast food doesn't appeal to you as much, where sitting down and eating a pound of wings can't be done...not that we don't want to...it can't be done.
After 3 years (almost 4) that is where I am...fast food eh...no thanks...do I want to eat a pound of wings sure...but I can't...I feel too uncomfortable...but I am one of those who came here to get the scale number down...was told to smarten the hell up and listened to "the mean people" and learned.12 -
VintageFeline wrote: »There's a few ideas here so bear with me. I think there is a huge knowledge base here BUT I think there's also a lot of people that weigh into medical issues when they don't know what they don't know.
CI<CO is the 'formula' for weight loss, but weight loss and health are linked, yes - but not synonymous.
I work in health care (clinical nurse; irrelevant online) and I cringe at the number of people telling people 'eat whatever you want' so long as the caloric balance is right.
Losing weight alone DOES improve health, but it is not ALL there is to health and I feel that often that message is lost here.
Sure, some people are knowledgeable. Others parrot the same lines without any deeper context and that in itself can be dangerous to a new or uneducated forum user.
This app is after all called 'my fitness pal' not my weight loss pal.
To a degree this can be true but I find it's often because someone hasn't disclosed a medical condition/disclosed all facts pertinent to their query that results in largely generic but helpful advice. If someone does disclose then the advice is more measured and people are directed to clear anything with their medical professional. But CICO still applies to everyone, medical condition or not, safety (from a medical perspective) to currently lose weight or not.
I think the insinuation people are reckless with advice is largely unfair and untrue, as usual with threads like these, I'd love to be provided with evidence. I find it's often an issue of personal interpretation of tone and intent rather than factual inaccuracy.
Maybe it is personal interpretation of tone, but if that's how people are interpreting it maybe people could consider their phrasing.
I think you're missing the point that CI<CO applies for weight loss, but other factors contribute to health.
I have seen numerous threads where a person asks a medical question and people who clearly from their answers, have no medical knowledge try and give 'advice'.
It's not malicious. As I said, people don't know what they don't know.
Others repeat what educated people have said without the background knowledge.
............
I've only ever been a little overweight and been using this app on and off for different goals since 2012. I've only looked into the forums in the last few months. I've seen lots of great, measured advice but also a lot of people repeating rhetoric and giving 'advice' on subjects that they really probably are not qualified to comment on.
I mean sure - it's the Internet - anything goes, but they're is an overwhelming attack of sorts to anyone that points out short fallings of forum content/advices. It has a distinct bully like nature to the casual observer.
.......
I'm off to bed. It's nearly midnight here.3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »There's a few ideas here so bear with me. I think there is a huge knowledge base here BUT I think there's also a lot of people that weigh into medical issues when they don't know what they don't know.
CI<CO is the 'formula' for weight loss, but weight loss and health are linked, yes - but not synonymous.
I work in health care (clinical nurse; irrelevant online) and I cringe at the number of people telling people 'eat whatever you want' so long as the caloric balance is right.
Losing weight alone DOES improve health, but it is not ALL there is to health and I feel that often that message is lost here.
Sure, some people are knowledgeable. Others parrot the same lines without any deeper context and that in itself can be dangerous to a new or uneducated forum user.
This app is after all called 'my fitness pal' not my weight loss pal.
To a degree this can be true but I find it's often because someone hasn't disclosed a medical condition/disclosed all facts pertinent to their query that results in largely generic but helpful advice. If someone does disclose then the advice is more measured and people are directed to clear anything with their medical professional. But CICO still applies to everyone, medical condition or not, safety (from a medical perspective) to currently lose weight or not.
I think the insinuation people are reckless with advice is largely unfair and untrue, as usual with threads like these, I'd love to be provided with evidence. I find it's often an issue of personal interpretation of tone and intent rather than factual inaccuracy.
Maybe it is personal interpretation of tone, but if that's how people are interpreting it maybe people could consider their phrasing.
I think you're missing the point that CI<CO applies for weight loss, but other factors contribute to health.
I have seen numerous threads where a person asks a medical question and people who clearly from their answers, have no medical knowledge try and give 'advice'.
It's not malicious. As I said, people don't know what they don't know.
Others repeat what educated people have said without the background knowledge.
............
I've only ever been a little overweight and been using this app on and off for different goals since 2012. I've only looked into the forums in the last few months. I've seen lots of great, measured advice but also a lot of people repeating rhetoric and giving 'advice' on subjects that they really probably are not qualified to comment on.
I mean sure - it's the Internet - anything goes, but they're is an overwhelming attack of sorts to anyone that points out short fallings of forum content/advices. It has a distinct bully like nature to the casual observer.
.......
I'm off to bed. It's nearly midnight here. [/q
Well then, don't be a "casual observer" get in there and help out with the newcomers--sounds like you've got some qualifications. There is an avalanche of newbies right now. HELP OUT.2 -
trigden1991 wrote: »allenpriest wrote: »Hey OP
I get it.
Me too.
trigdon1991 you exemplify the problem
Bye
I'm most offended that you didn't spell my name correctly.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »allenpriest wrote: »Hey OP
I get it.
Me too.
trigdon1991 you exemplify the problem
Bye
What about us other middle aged women on the post chiming in agreeing with Trigden? Don't we count?
I've lost 94 pounds agreeing with Trigden.
I never you knew I was such an inspiration. Glad I could help
All joking aside, this thread is ridiculously stereotypical and a bit pointless. If you don't like people posting their opinions or even science based facts then no one is forcing you to read the forums.
I'm yet to see Trigden1991 post something bad.
This is an online forum where people will tell you crazy theories based on nothing and call it fact, some will link research and some might tell you how it is. I personally like being told the truth. If i post a diet and ask a forum about it, it's open for debate and I'll read all the comments and it will help and hopefully educate me... I might also have a good laugh..
If you want to post beliefs and don't want to agree with facts and science that's great but don't get angry about it and blame them for commenting on your post with facts. If anything it's a good read. Yes some things work better for others. Some people like low carb, some people like expensive meal replacements and some people believe it's fine to eat 600calories a day.. But guess what? Some people don't and they're going to say why on a forum and they may even back it up with research.
You don't have to like it and you don't have to agree with it. You don't even have to read it and lastly, you don't have to use the forums if you don't want. That's another great thing about MFP.
If people abuse you or call you names, that's a completely different matter and that needs to be reported. There's a wonderful list of rules many users may want to read but not agreeing with you... is not against the rules. Sorry.
I hope you have a great journey and I hope what ever your doing works for you and you reach your goals OP.
4 -
51 year old menopausal woman in maintenance here.
It IS about CICO.
And I believe the variables that influence CI and CO differ for different people.
And different ways of eating affect different folks' success with keeping CO higher than CI.
And, people have different goals when they visit the forums. Most want the number on the scale to go down (some want it to go up). But beyond that, different folks have different goals here.
And, finally, folks are at different points along their life journeys, both in terms of their knowledge about weight loss, and their readiness to lose and MAINTAIN weight loss.
How I approach all of this differs from how many others approach it. That's just reality.11 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »51 year old menopausal woman in maintenance here.
It IS about CICO.
And I believe the variables that influence CI and CO differ for different people.
And different ways of eating affect different folks' success with keeping CO higher than CI.
And, people have different goals when they visit the forums. Most want the number on the scale to go down (some want it to go up). But beyond that, different folks have different goals here.
And, finally, folks are at different points along their life journeys, both in terms of their knowledge about weight loss, and their readiness to lose and MAINTAIN weight loss.
How I approach all of this differs from how many others approach it. That's just reality.
Great post 0 -
What about us decently muscled older men?
mfp's forums are actually very civil compared to some out there on the web, as in VERY civil.
OP, if you decide to come back to browse - just choose who to interact with, use the ignore function and/or report to mods as necessary.7
This discussion has been closed.
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