No sugars and no carbs
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I'm trying to work out why you seem to be doing your best to encourage OP to do something gung-ho and with abandon that is specifically against medical advice.
I don't believe I am. Unless I missed it, OP didn't say that a medical provider/therapist told her to do squats that way. I merely pointed out that what she said was good form - not to parallel and knees not over toes, which is what many people mistakenly think of as good form - actually usually isn't.
If that's the advice she got from a therapist, then she should absolutely do that. If that's just what she thought because she's heard it from people that really don't know what they're talking about, she should have accurate information and make a better-informed decision. Who knows - she may find that doing squats to parallel might help her knees. They certainly helped mine (yes, personal anecdote).1 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »microwoman999 wrote: »Thank you for the pictures that may help. Maybe I misworded my squat. My knees don't pass my toes.
I figured that's what you meant. And it's still fine. In fact, it's expected. I'd be willing to be that if you let them go past your toes, you'd be able to go lower. Below is an image from one of the (if not the single) best training instructional book. Even if you're not using added weight, you can keep your arms in front of you for balance, but your knees will go past your toes.
I'm afraid you may be giving bad advice here. I have a knee injury and have read up on exercising with it, and the key pieces of advice I have come across are, as OP says:
- Don't extend the knees over the toes (creates pressure under the kneecap)
- Don't go too deep.
Here is an example from our own mfp blog: http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/6-ways-to-modify-squats-and-lunges-for-bad-knees/ and one from the National Health Service website written by a physiotherapist http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/c25k/Pages/knee-exercises.aspx . Note the section on "squats" has both these guidelines.
Advice for proper form when uninjured does not apply to exercising with an injury.
To be honest, i would much rather take the advice from Mark Rippetoe over any other person when it comes to lifting. He is one of the most renowed strength coachea out there, which is where @TR0berts posted that picture from.
Although, modificationa may need to occur if injured.
Agreed. I have bad knees, wear knee sleeves and was informed by very knowledgable lifters that above parallel and knees not tracking over my toes would be hell on my knees and hips....and they were right. I barbell squat slightly below parallel and my knees do track over my toes as my femurs are on the long side. No hip or knee issues!
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Not quoting anyone specific here, but commenting on much above without singling anyone out: Knee problem/injury 1 is not knee problem/injury 2 is not knee problem/injury 3.
My (rowing) double partner has a knee problem; so do I. We have the same orthopedist, and different knee problems. We got wildly different physical therapy regimens and medical recommendations/treatments, which makes sense given the difference in knee problems.
If someone has a knee injury or problem, they should get expert medical advice that is specific to their personal knee problem.
It makes sense to talk about what is good squat form for someone with no injuries. It makes sense to talk about what has worked with our own personal knee injuries (and it's possibly more helpful to others if we give some indication what those injuries are).
IMO, it doesn't make any sense to prescribe exercise approaches for people who have knee injuries about which we have limited and insufficient information, especially if we lack any professional expertise.
Just my opinion, though.2 -
cerise_noir wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »microwoman999 wrote: »Thank you for the pictures that may help. Maybe I misworded my squat. My knees don't pass my toes.
I figured that's what you meant. And it's still fine. In fact, it's expected. I'd be willing to be that if you let them go past your toes, you'd be able to go lower. Below is an image from one of the (if not the single) best training instructional book. Even if you're not using added weight, you can keep your arms in front of you for balance, but your knees will go past your toes.
I'm afraid you may be giving bad advice here. I have a knee injury and have read up on exercising with it, and the key pieces of advice I have come across are, as OP says:
- Don't extend the knees over the toes (creates pressure under the kneecap)
- Don't go too deep.
Here is an example from our own mfp blog: http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/6-ways-to-modify-squats-and-lunges-for-bad-knees/ and one from the National Health Service website written by a physiotherapist http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/c25k/Pages/knee-exercises.aspx . Note the section on "squats" has both these guidelines.
Advice for proper form when uninjured does not apply to exercising with an injury.
To be honest, i would much rather take the advice from Mark Rippetoe over any other person when it comes to lifting. He is one of the most renowed strength coachea out there, which is where @TR0berts posted that picture from.
Although, modificationa may need to occur if injured.
Agreed. I have bad knees, wear knee sleeves and was informed by very knowledgable lifters that above parallel and knees not tracking over my toes would be hell on my knees and hips....and they were right. I barbell squat slightly below parallel and my knees do track over my toes as my femurs are on the long side. No hip or knee issues!
I believe that "knowledge" came from this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14636100
To quote the conclusion of the abstract:
"Although restricting forward movement of the knees may minimize stress on the knees, it is likely that forces are inappropriately transferred to the hips and low-back region. Thus, appropriate joint loading during this exercise may require the knees to move slightly past the toes."
The fact is that there is a wide range of anatomic variability when it comes to squatting. Keeping your center of gravity and keeping knees and hips balanced is more important that trying to force everyone to follow the same dogmatic form rule. The same goes for trying to make everyone squat to parallel.1 -
kaytbugz09 wrote: »I've been doing keto/low carb since Halloween and it's been GREAT! Everyone who is freaking out on @microwoman999 needs to stop. A lot of people are on a similar diet, Low Carb/High Fat, and have had great success. I'm not extremely strict on the diet. If I want to eat a sandwich with real bread, ice cream, etc., I go ahead and have it. Only if I really want it. Otherwise, my sugar/carb cravings have practically disappeared. All symptoms from my bad gall bladder have disappeared. My bloodwork, taken just before Christmas, shows great improvements in cholesterol in the past year. I've also lost 15 pounds and two pant sizes! Sure, it sounds sketchy, but it is sustainable and it does work. Don't just automatically assume that a doctor is crazy for suggesting such a diet!
If anyone is suffering from gallstones or has had their gallbladder removed please, please, please seek medical advice before trying a high fat diet. It's generally recommended to avoid fat if you have gallbladder issues and many of those who have had their gallbladder removed end up unable to cope with anything fatty with quite spectacular results (there is a name for the condition but I can't remember what it is), I can't even drink full fat milk without experiencing similar to the side effects of Alli+too much fat. It's all rather unpleasant and painful.
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cerise_noir wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »microwoman999 wrote: »Thank you for the pictures that may help. Maybe I misworded my squat. My knees don't pass my toes.
I figured that's what you meant. And it's still fine. In fact, it's expected. I'd be willing to be that if you let them go past your toes, you'd be able to go lower. Below is an image from one of the (if not the single) best training instructional book. Even if you're not using added weight, you can keep your arms in front of you for balance, but your knees will go past your toes.
I'm afraid you may be giving bad advice here. I have a knee injury and have read up on exercising with it, and the key pieces of advice I have come across are, as OP says:
- Don't extend the knees over the toes (creates pressure under the kneecap)
- Don't go too deep.
Here is an example from our own mfp blog: http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/6-ways-to-modify-squats-and-lunges-for-bad-knees/ and one from the National Health Service website written by a physiotherapist http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/c25k/Pages/knee-exercises.aspx . Note the section on "squats" has both these guidelines.
Advice for proper form when uninjured does not apply to exercising with an injury.
To be honest, i would much rather take the advice from Mark Rippetoe over any other person when it comes to lifting. He is one of the most renowed strength coachea out there, which is where @TR0berts posted that picture from.
Although, modificationa may need to occur if injured.
Agreed. I have bad knees, wear knee sleeves and was informed by very knowledgeable lifters that above parallel and knees not tracking over my toes would be hell on my knees and hips....and they were right. I barbell squat slightly below parallel and my knees do track over my toes as my femurs are on the long side. No hip or knee issues!
I have two forms of arthritis. I have bad knees and yes, the dreaded long femurs. There is really no way if your femurs are long to not have your knees track over your toes if you're built like that.
I never used to be able to squat comfortably quite to parallel until recently when someone (ahem... hi there!) on my friend list started posting tips on squat form.
My knees feel more comfortable squatting now than they did before.1 -
kaytbugz09 wrote: »I've been doing keto/low carb since Halloween and it's been GREAT! Everyone who is freaking out on @microwoman999 needs to stop. A lot of people are on a similar diet, Low Carb/High Fat, and have had great success. I'm not extremely strict on the diet. If I want to eat a sandwich with real bread, ice cream, etc., I go ahead and have it. Only if I really want it. Otherwise, my sugar/carb cravings have practically disappeared. All symptoms from my bad gall bladder have disappeared. My bloodwork, taken just before Christmas, shows great improvements in cholesterol in the past year. I've also lost 15 pounds and two pant sizes! Sure, it sounds sketchy, but it is sustainable and it does work. Don't just automatically assume that a doctor is crazy for suggesting such a diet!
If anyone is suffering from gallstones or has had their gallbladder removed please, please, please seek medical advice before trying a high fat diet. It's generally recommended to avoid fat if you have gallbladder issues and many of those who have had their gallbladder removed end up unable to cope with anything fatty with quite spectacular results (there is a name for the condition but I can't remember what it is), I can't even drink full fat milk without experiencing similar to the side effects of Alli+too much fat. It's all rather unpleasant and painful.
@firef1y72 Thankfully I just get stabbing pain from too much fat as a warning sign now that my gallbladder is gone, so I can usually control it pretty well and even enjoy cheese on a regular basis. But I have to be pretty diligent about tracking my fat intake to make sure I don't go too high.
I think I would have slipped into a major depression if I had the Alli effects (know all too well how those go...
) 0 -
kaytbugz09 wrote: »I've been doing keto/low carb since Halloween and it's been GREAT! Everyone who is freaking out on @microwoman999 needs to stop. A lot of people are on a similar diet, Low Carb/High Fat, and have had great success. I'm not extremely strict on the diet. If I want to eat a sandwich with real bread, ice cream, etc., I go ahead and have it. Only if I really want it. Otherwise, my sugar/carb cravings have practically disappeared. All symptoms from my bad gall bladder have disappeared. My bloodwork, taken just before Christmas, shows great improvements in cholesterol in the past year. I've also lost 15 pounds and two pant sizes! Sure, it sounds sketchy, but it is sustainable and it does work. Don't just automatically assume that a doctor is crazy for suggesting such a diet!
If anyone is suffering from gallstones or has had their gallbladder removed please, please, please seek medical advice before trying a high fat diet. It's generally recommended to avoid fat if you have gallbladder issues and many of those who have had their gallbladder removed end up unable to cope with anything fatty with quite spectacular results (there is a name for the condition but I can't remember what it is), I can't even drink full fat milk without experiencing similar to the side effects of Alli+too much fat. It's all rather unpleasant and painful.
yes,my sister had hers out and high fat foods,ice cream,etc shes in the bathroom not 20 min later0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »kaytbugz09 wrote: »I've been doing keto/low carb since Halloween and it's been GREAT! Everyone who is freaking out on @microwoman999 needs to stop. A lot of people are on a similar diet, Low Carb/High Fat, and have had great success. I'm not extremely strict on the diet. If I want to eat a sandwich with real bread, ice cream, etc., I go ahead and have it. Only if I really want it. Otherwise, my sugar/carb cravings have practically disappeared. All symptoms from my bad gall bladder have disappeared. My bloodwork, taken just before Christmas, shows great improvements in cholesterol in the past year. I've also lost 15 pounds and two pant sizes! Sure, it sounds sketchy, but it is sustainable and it does work. Don't just automatically assume that a doctor is crazy for suggesting such a diet!
If anyone is suffering from gallstones or has had their gallbladder removed please, please, please seek medical advice before trying a high fat diet. It's generally recommended to avoid fat if you have gallbladder issues and many of those who have had their gallbladder removed end up unable to cope with anything fatty with quite spectacular results (there is a name for the condition but I can't remember what it is), I can't even drink full fat milk without experiencing similar to the side effects of Alli+too much fat. It's all rather unpleasant and painful.
yes,my sister had hers out and high fat foods,ice cream,etc shes in the bathroom not 20 min later
Same with my wife (hers actually ruptured). So if she is ever constipated, we just get wings. Problem solved.2 -
kaytbugz09 wrote: »I've been doing keto/low carb since Halloween and it's been GREAT! Everyone who is freaking out on @microwoman999 needs to stop. A lot of people are on a similar diet, Low Carb/High Fat, and have had great success. I'm not extremely strict on the diet. If I want to eat a sandwich with real bread, ice cream, etc., I go ahead and have it. Only if I really want it. Otherwise, my sugar/carb cravings have practically disappeared. All symptoms from my bad gall bladder have disappeared. My bloodwork, taken just before Christmas, shows great improvements in cholesterol in the past year. I've also lost 15 pounds and two pant sizes! Sure, it sounds sketchy, but it is sustainable and it does work. Don't just automatically assume that a doctor is crazy for suggesting such a diet!
If anyone is suffering from gallstones or has had their gallbladder removed please, please, please seek medical advice before trying a high fat diet. It's generally recommended to avoid fat if you have gallbladder issues and many of those who have had their gallbladder removed end up unable to cope with anything fatty with quite spectacular results (there is a name for the condition but I can't remember what it is), I can't even drink full fat milk without experiencing similar to the side effects of Alli+too much fat. It's all rather unpleasant and painful.
I thank my lucky stars for being, well, lucky. I eat a moderate fat diet with no gall bladder and no issues. Though I had it removed almost 30 years ago. Maybe time makes a difference. Though I don't remember being given dietary restrictions.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Sugar twins? ? This could be another word for Artificial sweeteners. I've never heard the term used before.
It's the brand name of an artificial sweetener. I think it's aspartame.
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I really have to laugh. I'm not saying it's funny as I had my gallbladder out several years ago in 2009 and what usually triggers the bathroom issue is spicy food and it doesn't have to be that spicy. Chipotle does it too me. In fact funny as it sounds lettuce is another thing that can cause it. Not always but can. I don't have many things that can cause it but I know some foods trigger it. I noticed this week it has been a little more of an issue but it only was on the days I had salad with my food. Weather it was incorporated in my dinner or a side salad. Needless to say it's not just high fat that causes it. I think everyone's body handles it different. I only know what my body can handle and I have taken a break from salads. So if you have issues with your gallbladder definitely consult your physician but you will learn what bothers you. Even if it means a couple of trips to the restroom. Unfortunately that is an annoying thing that will follow me for the rest of my life but I'm quite ok with it.0
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microwoman999 wrote: »I really have to laugh. I'm not saying it's funny as I had my gallbladder out several years ago in 2009 and what usually triggers the bathroom issue is spicy food and it doesn't have to be that spicy. Chipotle does it too me. In fact funny as it sounds lettuce is another thing that can cause it. Not always but can. I don't have many things that can cause it but I know some foods trigger it. I noticed this week it has been a little more of an issue but it only was on the days I had salad with my food. Weather it was incorporated in my dinner or a side salad. Needless to say it's not just high fat that causes it. I think everyone's body handles it different. I only know what my body can handle and I have taken a break from salads. So if you have issues with your gallbladder definitely consult your physician but you will learn what bothers you. Even if it means a couple of trips to the restroom. Unfortunately that is an annoying thing that will follow me for the rest of my life but I'm quite ok with it.
yeah some people cant digest lettuce gallbladder or not. I used to be one of those people,I dont know whats changed but I dont have to run to the bathroom now after eating salad,but I dont eat it often lol1 -
This website has pretty good low carb recipes!!! http://www.kalynskitchen.com1
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kaytbugz09 wrote: »I've been doing keto/low carb since Halloween and it's been GREAT! Everyone who is freaking out on @microwoman999 needs to stop. A lot of people are on a similar diet, Low Carb/High Fat, and have had great success. I'm not extremely strict on the diet. If I want to eat a sandwich with real bread, ice cream, etc., I go ahead and have it. Only if I really want it. Otherwise, my sugar/carb cravings have practically disappeared. All symptoms from my bad gall bladder have disappeared. My bloodwork, taken just before Christmas, shows great improvements in cholesterol in the past year. I've also lost 15 pounds and two pant sizes! Sure, it sounds sketchy, but it is sustainable and it does work. Don't just automatically assume that a doctor is crazy for suggesting such a diet!
If anyone is suffering from gallstones or has had their gallbladder removed please, please, please seek medical advice before trying a high fat diet. It's generally recommended to avoid fat if you have gallbladder issues and many of those who have had their gallbladder removed end up unable to cope with anything fatty with quite spectacular results (there is a name for the condition but I can't remember what it is), I can't even drink full fat milk without experiencing similar to the side effects of Alli+too much fat. It's all rather unpleasant and painful.
Yet it isn't this way for everyone (I don't know whether it's "many" or "some" - I would've guessed the latter based on multiple people I've discussed it with).
I had my gall bladder out in 2015 while losing weight - not gallstones, but rather adenomyomatosis and cholesterolosis. Same end result, though: No gall bladder.
I was advised to follow a low-fat diet for a month or so afterward (not a problem since I was in calorie deficit
), then allowed to cautiously re-introduce fat if I wished.
I have every confidence I could go out right now and eat an extra-large order of (say) deep-fried beer-battered onion rings with ranch dressing (even though I prefer catsup), and the only price I'd pay would be caloric. I've eaten high fat meals multiple times since the surgery, with no unusual - let alone violent - consequences. I routinely eat full-fat cheese and other fat-rich foods (in reasonable portions) with no problems.
Like you, I'd encourage caution by others, because problems with fat digestion can be an after-effect. But I don't want those facing the surgery to believe it's universal.0 -
Are you going to do this forever? Because if not, once you add sugar or any type back to your diet, your glycogen reduced cells will replenish and weight could easily go up 5-10lbs. Glycogen is stored from the break down of any sugars and is NEEDED for physical activity.
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You can run off of butyrate pretty well and also the body can produce glucose from fats and proteins. You don't have to eat carbs but I wouldn't do this, unless there was a medical reason, because I love carbs (fruits, veg, whole grains, legumes, etc - and some refined sugar) and also don't want to miss out on micro-nutrients. I don't understand doing this if a person doesn't have a medical condition. A lot of people say it makes them feel better and reduces inflamation and also is good for diabetics so those can be good reasons. Also, although not required to lose weight, it does seem to take it off quick which can be motivation also.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »kaytbugz09 wrote: »I've been doing keto/low carb since Halloween and it's been GREAT! Everyone who is freaking out on @microwoman999 needs to stop. A lot of people are on a similar diet, Low Carb/High Fat, and have had great success. I'm not extremely strict on the diet. If I want to eat a sandwich with real bread, ice cream, etc., I go ahead and have it. Only if I really want it. Otherwise, my sugar/carb cravings have practically disappeared. All symptoms from my bad gall bladder have disappeared. My bloodwork, taken just before Christmas, shows great improvements in cholesterol in the past year. I've also lost 15 pounds and two pant sizes! Sure, it sounds sketchy, but it is sustainable and it does work. Don't just automatically assume that a doctor is crazy for suggesting such a diet!
If anyone is suffering from gallstones or has had their gallbladder removed please, please, please seek medical advice before trying a high fat diet. It's generally recommended to avoid fat if you have gallbladder issues and many of those who have had their gallbladder removed end up unable to cope with anything fatty with quite spectacular results (there is a name for the condition but I can't remember what it is), I can't even drink full fat milk without experiencing similar to the side effects of Alli+too much fat. It's all rather unpleasant and painful.
yes,my sister had hers out and high fat foods,ice cream,etc shes in the bathroom not 20 min later
Same with my wife (hers actually ruptured). So if she is ever constipated, we just get wings. Problem solved.
Yep must admit that when I'm constipated I'll eat something high fat and make sure I'm within running distance of the toilet for the rest of the day/night.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »microwoman999 wrote: »I really have to laugh. I'm not saying it's funny as I had my gallbladder out several years ago in 2009 and what usually triggers the bathroom issue is spicy food and it doesn't have to be that spicy. Chipotle does it too me. In fact funny as it sounds lettuce is another thing that can cause it. Not always but can. I don't have many things that can cause it but I know some foods trigger it. I noticed this week it has been a little more of an issue but it only was on the days I had salad with my food. Weather it was incorporated in my dinner or a side salad. Needless to say it's not just high fat that causes it. I think everyone's body handles it different. I only know what my body can handle and I have taken a break from salads. So if you have issues with your gallbladder definitely consult your physician but you will learn what bothers you. Even if it means a couple of trips to the restroom. Unfortunately that is an annoying thing that will follow me for the rest of my life but I'm quite ok with it.
yeah some people cant digest lettuce gallbladder or not. I used to be one of those people,I dont know whats changed but I dont have to run to the bathroom now after eating salad,but I dont eat it often lol
Interesting you say this. My wife can't eat salads either.0 -
I follow the same diet. Research Ketogenic Diets. Although many refer to these sort of diets as "no carb" or "no sugar" usually what is actually meant is EXTREMELY low carb. I keep my carbs below 20g/day. Planning meals takes research but after a few weeks you are able to put together healthy meals that will give you all your nutrients with out any thought at all. Logging all my food for the day in the morning helps me a lot. As far as fruits, try grapefruit or berries. I don't believe that diets like this are harmful if you take the time to research. A little knowledge goes along way. With any diet, only blindly following the masses or only half committing will lead to failure. Good Luck!1
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No thanks. I wouldn't discourage you from trying it but I've tried this in the past. I was miserable because it was unsustainable for me. It was so bad I shunned dieting altogether to a while. Went off the deep end really. I am better now and have been successful with simply watching my calories and exercise, exercise, exercise (I can say it enough). Best of luck. If you want to see what is working for me, I have a blog here describing it. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/rcrough
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