Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Is the 'fat acceptance' movement a good thing?
Replies
-
Shaming and outwardly criticizing people does not motivate them to adjust behaviors, which could potentially help them lose weight. So, like most everyone else, I'm against body shaming. Overweight people know they are overweight (at least adults do) in most cases, and the vast majority (even FA types as far as I can tell) would like to be healthy (they may not admit that this involves losing weight, but the process of adjusting to more healthy behaviors has fairly consistent outcomes).
My opinion is that we should stop shaming/lecturing and instead we should offer accurate information that isn't morality-based. Stop showing people the food pyramid, stop pretending all fat is "bad" (both a moral judgment and incorrect nutritional judgment), stop pushing weight loss pills and other quick fixes. If we change the "weight loss" paradigm so that is about life long adjustments and personal goals and not about moral judgments and the number on the scale, in my opinion that is the best way to offer body positivity and accept everyone right where they are at.
No one should feel bad about themselves because of their weight, but we should all be motivated to enjoy life, which is lost sustainable through an everyday goal of doing "your best" in all areas of life. Some days that means going to the gym or joining a community soccer league, other days that means taking a nap and reading a book. The best way each of us can aspire toward health/weight loss or whatever else our goals may be, is to have accurate information, and I believe much of our obesity issues would be reduced if false and outdated information and education styles (like lecturing w/moral judgments) were revised and replaced.
Parents shouldn't think their kids will be healthy based on a diet of chicken, with two veggie sides when that meals is chicken nuggets, corn and French fries. Mandarin oranges soaked in sugary juice does not constitute a healthy fruit serving. But they are pedaled this information by food corporations, scientific studies that are funded by corporations (conflict of interest abound) and outdated information that is taught throughout school and even on college-level nutrition courses.
As a sidenote and step away from my tangent, obesity can be a serious medical condition or can lead to serious medical conditions which are very costly.... but exercising to the point of needing joint replacements and early-onset arthritis etc are also self-inflicted and quite costly.. so I'm not sure if I can hold anger toward a group for hiking medical expenses... I have epilepsy from a head injury I sustained while playing sports. My medical bills are a burden on society, and I would not likely have this disorder if it weren't for a decision that I made to play sports. Should I feel bad about this? Should I feel guilty?2 -
megdnoorman wrote: »My opinion is that we should stop shaming/lecturing and instead we should offer accurate information that isn't morality-based.
Are we actually shaming/lecturing? I don't think so, as a public policy.Stop showing people the food pyramid, stop pretending all fat is "bad" (both a moral judgment and incorrect nutritional judgment), stop pushing weight loss pills and other quick fixes.
Don't know who "we" is, but the food pyramid is outdated and no longer used, and MyPlate and the current dietary guidelines don't say that all fat is bad (healthwise or otherwise) or promote chicken nuggets or whatever (which have fat, usually). Public policy doesn't push weight loss pills, etc. -- quick fixes of all sorts are the provision of the diet industry and the idea that there's a way to lose that requires no actual work, time, sacrifice, which of course lots of people want to believe.If we change the "weight loss" paradigm so that is about life long adjustments and personal goals and not about moral judgments and the number on the scale, in my opinion that is the best way to offer body positivity and accept everyone right where they are at.
Agree with this.2 -
It might be more productive to simply side-step the issue of whether it is good or bad and just focus on improving ourselves for the time being. Worry about the rest of society some other time.
In the words of Michael Jackson, "If you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make that change."3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Are we actually shaming/lecturing? I don't think so, as a public policy.
I was referring to society in general, and I think many overweight people are shamed or lectured about their weight, and that shame/lecturing occurs from doctors, family/friends, television shows about diet/weight loss etc. I'm not referring to any specific policy but to society in general.lemurcat12 wrote: »Don't know who "we" is, but the food pyramid is outdated and no longer used, and MyPlate and the current dietary guidelines don't say that all fat is bad (healthwise or otherwise) or promote chicken nuggets or whatever (which have fat, usually). Public policy doesn't push weight loss pills, etc. -- quick fixes of all sorts are the provision of the diet industry and the idea that there's a way to lose that requires no actual work, time, sacrifice, which of course lots of people want to believe.
.
Again, I am referring to society as a whole. Yes, the food pyramid is outdated, but it still shows up. My sister is studying to be a nutritionist and the pyramid was on the front of one of her text books (a book published within the last 5 years). My niece's school had a "health" day and she came home with a coloring sheet that had the pyramid on it. Fat and fat-dense foods are still often characterized as "bad", and food in general is consistently characterized as "good" "bad" or "cheat-food" "safe-food"... in my opinion, speaking of food in terms of moral values is damaging to the way we think about and relate to food. I agree the diet industry is largely at fault as are shows like the biggest loser and whatever that kardashian sister's new show is. I guess my point was that the way that we, holistically (not as individuals because I know many of us strive not to speak/behave this way. I'm talking about the greater and more visible majority) as a society talk about food, diet, weight, etc. is part of the problem.
0 -
When I had my gall bladder out the surgeon showed me a picture of the fat around the area. I didn't think he was fat-shaming me. He was showing me something that was unhealthy. Too many doctors are afraid to point out weight problems for fear people taking offense. I think both shame and acceptance should be taken out the equation, and we just look at being overweight objectively for what it is- unhealthy. No judgment, but no acceptance either. It health problem that needs to be addressed and supported just like any other health problem.5
-
I started a related thread before I knew this one existed
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10506234/milo-at-lsu-fat-shaming-works
I started it after seeing a video from a controversial speaker on the Univ circuit
He's a bit crass, but he makes some good points that we should be effectively encouraging society to embrace obesity as appropriate. Video is at the above thread link, if you are curious.
1 -
Haven't really kept up with the movement so I'm not sure if it turned into an extreme one since, but I always saw it as trying to get the point across that fat people exist and have the right to regardless of your thoughts on their appearances. Me existing as overweight person isn't saying this is okay by any means, just that I'm deserving of acceptance as a human being, and nothing more.
But with that said, at the end of the day, we all need take measures to ensure our health and longevity.
4 -
Health at every size is crap. Excess weight causes or makes virtually every health conditon worse, adding unnecessary coats to society.
With this said, shaming isn't appropriate.1 -
Haven't really kept up with the movement so I'm not sure if it turned into an extreme one since
Oh boy howdy, did it. Probably the biggest example is a blog called Dances With Fat by a woman named Ragen Chastain who makes some really bonkers claims. It's a shame because:Me existing as overweight person isn't saying this is okay by any means, just that I'm deserving of acceptance as a human being, and nothing more.
...this for real happens, overweight and obese people being treated like they don't exist. And it's shameful.1 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »Oh boy howdy, did it. Probably the biggest example is a blog called Dances With Fat by a woman named Ragen Chastain who makes some really bonkers claims.
Sounds like she's the Food Babe of this particular movement.
0 -
nm, topic hits too close to home1
-
In the same way that each religion should not be looked at as just the extremists same goes here.
Fat acceptance is about being accepted not normalization or skinny shaming.
3 -
Is this a very American thing? I'm over in England and haven't really heard of this 'Fat Acceptance' thing (far from it lol)...or have I just been hiding under a rock?! On the surface, it seemed like it might be a nice thing, but the more I've been reading the thread, the more it seems like a campaign dreamt up to keep high fat/calorie/cheap to make foods in the supermarkets.....2
-
cbminstrel wrote: »Is this a very American thing? I'm over in England and haven't really heard of this 'Fat Acceptance' thing (far from it lol)...or have I just been hiding under a rock?!
I hadn't really heard of it (I'm in Chicago) before MFP. (I also was unaware of Freelee, her bf, or any of the various youtube food personalities.)0 -
Yes, it's a good thing.0
-
Haha, it's definitely an American "kind of" thing. The question is loaded, and thats a bad thing.. If you prescribe to the notion that our nation is headed towards more liberal views with an "everybody's is beautiful" approach, you'll probably say that fat acceptance much like acceptance of LBGT or those with personality disorders is a good thing. The science has more or less validated that those individuals above don't have a choice in the matter, and therefore a society of progressive and well educated thinkers should be able to see that acceptance is both the respectful and just course.
Obesity is much more complicated. Much of it is bogged down by pure laziness, irrational attitudes on diet and exercise and generations of sedentary individuals - a disease of world views. Perhaps it inhabits the realm of "we understand these people, but we reject them"...much like alcoholism or drug addiction. It does not mean they are worthless or deserve shaming, quite the opposite. They need to be guided in the right directions so that they can rise above their situations. But we as a society should never accept (read: surrender) to those that would aim to marginalize their own short comings so that "fat" becomes the norm, and they can sleep easier knowing their neighbors, children, family, and friends are all in agreement that "this is ok..". It's not. We should be better, always.8 -
Haha, it's definitely an American "kind of" thing. The question is loaded, and thats a bad thing.. If you prescribe to the notion that our nation is headed towards more liberal views with an "everybody's is beautiful" approach, you'll probably say that fat acceptance much like acceptance of LBGT or those with personality disorders is a good thing. The science has more or less validated that those individuals above don't have a choice in the matter, and therefore a society of progressive and well educated thinkers should be able to see that acceptance is both the respectful and just course.
Obesity is much more complicated. Much of it is bogged down by pure laziness, irrational attitudes on diet and exercise and generations of sedentary individuals - a disease of world views. Perhaps it inhabits the realm of "we understand these people, but we reject them"...much like alcoholism or drug addiction. It does not mean they are worthless or deserve shaming, quite the opposite. They need to be guided in the right directions so that they can rise above their situations. But we as a society should never accept (read: surrender) to those that would aim to marginalize their own short comings so that "fat" becomes the norm, and they can sleep easier knowing their neighbors, children, family, and friends are all in agreement that "this is ok..". It's not. We should be better, always.
I like this0 -
Hey
First off, I know this is a bit of a contentious topic, so I hope we can keep things civil!
I'm on the fence about the fat acceptance thing. And, at nearly 300lbs, I don't really want to spend too long on anything, especially a fence!!
Part of me thinks that fat acceptance is a tad bit dangerous in its attempts to normalise what is, essentially (although I am aware that I'm generalising here) , an unhealthy lifestyle. I'd also, although cautiously, argue that, while variation in weight is of course normal, openly stating that being 100lb+ over a 'normal' weight is anything other than a health concern is irresponsible. (Although I'm not saying that being ashamed is appropriate either.)
That said however, i guess it has many benefits... for instance I don't think a person that smokes will get nearly as much crap from people as an obese person. Both have made choices that impact their health... but only one is outwardly visible and is used to bully and mock people who, let's face it, likely use food as a coping mechanism.... pretty crappy given that there coping mechanism only affects themselves (as opposed to someone that acts like an arsehole to relieve stress etc.). Plus, maybe you need to be in a position where you feel like you're worth something before you can allow yourself to hope for better (although I don't know if anyone fully into fat acceptance would agree with the use of the word "better"...)
What do you guys think??
@dija92 the guy below is negative on the subject. Welcome to MFP forums and best of success. I got off the fence in Oct 2014 by killing my cravings and now weight and health markers are better at 65 than at 45 having maintained for two years now.
https://thesun.co.uk/living/2826291/steve-miller/0 -
[Much of it is bogged down by pure laziness
As you can see, I am taking this out of context, but, is it "pure laziness", or is it something simpler, maybe hopelessness, on those of us who are morbidly obese, or even just overweight. There really is not a simple answer to this, but also, there is no excuse for rudeness and intolerance. It is up to each of us how we choose to control the aspects of our physical and emotional selves. How each of us treats others, is a direct reflection upon ourselves. The golden rule applies, "do unto others, as you would have others do unto you". Judging is pointless and uncalled for. Perfection is unobtainable.
1 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »[Much of it is bogged down by pure laziness
As you can see, I am taking this out of context, but, is it "pure laziness", or is it something simpler, maybe hopelessness, on those of us who are morbidly obese, or even just overweight. There really is not a simple answer to this, but also, there is no excuse for rudeness and intolerance. It is up to each of us how we choose to control the aspects of our physical and emotional selves. How each of us treats others, is a direct reflection upon ourselves. The golden rule applies, "do unto others, as you would have others do unto you". Judging is pointless and uncalled for. Perfection is unobtainable.
@3rdof7sisters you make good points. Pure laziness is seldom likely to be the cause of obesity. I have never seen a case that was not triggered at least in part by an underlying health issue and obesity came later.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 901 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions