"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
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I have been giving this a lot of thought. Getting newbies to start with CICO is the best place to start with transitioning to the new them. They start with the very basics of weight loss. They realise that there is no food that has to be avoided at all costs. From here people would often transition to paying more attention to macros and IIFYM way of thinking which will make them think more about nutrition. They can still easily fit in treats but realise that care needs to taken to properly fit these into their nutritional needs. This leads to healthier food choices in general and working out which treats are important to them and how often they can be consumed but overall their diet is so much healthier.
Some go to greater extremes by limiting so much and sticking to 'clean food' (whatever that is) which works for them. However some of these same people then avoid social situations involving food because of an inability to stray from their chosen diet. If this works for them and they are achieving their goals then great. However, most of us are social beings. Generally we need these occassions for our mental health. There is no point being physically well if your mental health is out of kilter. Health is a mixer of diet, exercise and mental wellbeing. We need to work out a healthy balance of all 3 to achieve our best health possible. For many, a diet allowing for these types of meals and treats is essential for our overall wellbeing.10 -
By allowing myself to have the treats I love in smaller portions I was able to learn portion control. By slowing down and making the process of eating 1 truffle or 1 cupcake (with ALL the frosting), and making the enjoyment of those few bites a full sensory experience, I realized binging on sweets does nothing to satisfy me. This first couple of bites are the best and all I need to be satisfied. I also learned what treats are worth the calorie cost- Oreos do nothing for me but carrot cake with cream cheese frosting is worth every sacrifice I make to afford it. Working these things into my diet was part of the learning process.
Honestly, I also use my daily treat as motivation to get out of bed and exercise. If I get up and get in a 30-40 minute run/walk before work, by dinner time I bank 13,000-15,000 steps for the day (I also walk to work). This is more than enough exercise to afford a 150 calorie treat and still be under my calorie goal for the day). I run for chocolate. If chocolate is what motivates me to move, then that's just the way it's going to be.12 -
PIZZA FRIDAYS BABY!
down just shy of 60 pounds and still losing. I enjoy a couple slices every Friday without fail and it hasn't stopped me. and for the record I'm not one of those who forgot what its like to be fat cause I still am, but I am one of those that realized that this if for life and not temporary and life has room for pizza, burgers, ice cream etc.
I totally chowed down on some pizza last night. I have learned that eating a plate of salad before my pizza helps me control how much pizza I eat. My pizza place has an AMAZING spinach salad that I seriously crave (their white balsamic dressing is to die for), so I get a 2 for 1 deal on favorite foods on pizza nights
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There are widespread misconceptions out there that healthy food is not fun, that it's bland, boring, tastes terrible, and is expensive. It has taken some trial and error, but I have finally gotten to the point where I'm staying within calorie and financial budgets, losing weight, and loving my food and exercise on a Mediterranean/whole foods plan with lots of moving my body. A tray of really beautiful cupcakes were presented to me. I felt bad that had upset the person who wanted me to eat one, but I did not feel I had missed out. I'm tired of feeling tired and heavy. Chili cheese fries? No thanks. I'm really in the mood for hummus and veggies.0
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Actually, whenever I have eaten "clean" for a decent period of time, I have always fallen off the wagon and binged on foods that I had been restricting myself from having. Since I've been allowing myself treats built into most of my days, I haven't binged as much. It's all about moderation.12
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If I just ate whatever I loved and stopped when I hit my calorie limit, I'd be done eating at noon. I think IFIFYM works great if you can eat at least 2000 calories and lose, but what if you're smallish, maintain on maybe 1700 calories and need to go down to 1400 or so to lose, and you are one of those people who is often HUNGRY? Suddenly a giant salad with grilled chicken and a teaspoon of olive oil with balsalmic is looking great, while that Big Mac is just a recipe for not being able to eat a decently filling dinner.6
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A life without Dairy Queen is not a life I am willing to live. I can lose/maintain weight and still have my fast food DQ once a week. We also always have dessert on Friday night after the end of a long hard week. Depriving yourself will be your undoing at some point. The lesson is to learn how to incorporate these things into your life and not consistently deprive yourself. Deprivation will eventually lead to a binge and derail you hard.4
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It's all about context. Not ONE person on any thread I've been on is an advocate for filling your day with "junk". It's about moderation and not restricting or cutting ANY food group.7
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Agree with this. I was using portion control, but losing nothing. Went low carb, weight came off. But that's just ME. Some benefit from lowering carbs, others don't. Basically got to find what works for your unique situation.4
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Eat whatever you like within your calorie limit has never seemed to me to mean "just eat whatever seems tasty with no plan until you run out of calories." Obviously, for anyone with a weight problem, that's unlikely to work. People insisting it means something like that seem to be creating a strawman.
For me, what it means is that I decide, based on my calorie goal and other goals (for me, protein, overall nutrition, taste, how I like to eat -- mostly homecooked whole foods, certain convenience, work, and social requirements) how to allot my calories. I don't think I need to follow any rules like "never go out to eat" or "never eat pizza" or "sugar is the devil" or "bread is bad for dieting." (I don't eat much bread because for ME bread is usually not worth the calories, but I know it has no more fattening properties than anything else of the same # of calories.)
Since what I WANT to eat not only involves what tastes good, but what will make me feel good, not be hungry or tempted to overeat, and will meet nutritional goals, of course that's part of it. And since I am not typically satisfied if I graze I don't eat at whim but have plans for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Usually not a really set plan (I like to be flexible and tend to decide on dinner over the course of the day based on what I have on hand), but still a plan that is in my head.
Yes, I could just go to work, see that there are a bunch of donuts someone brought it (like there were yesterday), and eat 5, but I'm not going to, and in no way is that how I WANT to eat -- again, it's a strawman. I don't think most people seriously committed to losing weight and getting healthier want to eat like that either, but they might want to occasionally have a donut (or they might not--they might prefer other things always). The point though is that I don't have to worry about avoiding bad diet food and eating special diet food or any of the other fake rules people make up (or even things like "is oatmeal good for weight loss") -- I can experiment and figure out what I like.
And if I was honestly clueless and thought 1000 calories of donuts would be a good way to use all my pre dinner calories? Heck, maybe for some it would work. For me I'd feel awful and be hungry and tired and low energy in the afternoon, probably, and so I'd learn something.11 -
ladymiseryali wrote: »Agree with this. I was using portion control, but losing nothing. Went low carb, weight came off. But that's just ME. Some benefit from lowering carbs, others don't. Basically got to find what works for your unique situation.
So the low carb choices helped you create a calorie deficit, whereas strictly portion control did not. Many people do find low carb to be a satiating way of eating, even if they don't have medical reasons to restrict carbs. That said, weight loss ultimately comes down to creating a calorie deficit, it's finding the foods that provide nutrition, satiety, and enjoyment within that calorie deficit that determine long term adherence and success.8 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Eat whatever you like within your calorie limit has never seemed to me to mean "just eat whatever seems tasty with no plan until you run out of calories." Obviously, for anyone with a weight problem, that's unlikely to work. People insisting it means something like that seem to be creating a strawman.
For me, what it means is that I decide, based on my calorie goal and other goals (for me, protein, overall nutrition, taste, how I like to eat -- mostly homecooked whole foods, certain convenience, work, and social requirements) how to allot my calories. I don't think I need to follow any rules like "never go out to eat" or "never eat pizza" or "sugar is the devil" or "bread is bad for dieting." (I don't eat much bread because for ME bread is usually not worth the calories, but I know it has no more fattening properties than anything else of the same # of calories.)
Since what I WANT to eat not only involves what tastes good, but what will make me feel good, not be hungry or tempted to overeat, and will meet nutritional goals, of course that's part of it. And since I am not typically satisfied if I graze I don't eat at whim but have plans for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Usually not a really set plan (I like to be flexible and tend to decide on dinner over the course of the day based on what I have on hand), but still a plan that is in my head.
Yes, I could just go to work, see that there are a bunch of donuts someone brought it (like there were yesterday), and eat 5, but I'm not going to, and in no way is that how I WANT to eat -- again, it's a strawman. I don't think most people seriously committed to losing weight and getting healthier want to eat like that either, but they might want to occasionally have a donut (or they might not--they might prefer other things always). The point though is that I don't have to worry about avoiding bad diet food and eating special diet food or any of the other fake rules people make up (or even things like "is oatmeal good for weight loss") -- I can experiment and figure out what I like.
And if I was honestly clueless and thought 1000 calories of donuts would be a good way to use all my pre dinner calories? Heck, maybe for some it would work. For me I'd feel awful and be hungry and tired and low energy in the afternoon, probably, and so I'd learn something.
Great post but especially wanted to comment on the last part. It seems there is this all or nothing mentality amongst some who maybe at one point were trying to just eat nothing but "junk food" in a calorie deficit, found it to be not satiating and not a very good experience. So rather than thinking, "ok maybe 5 donuts isn't a great idea, but maybe I could fit one in with some eggs or oatmeal so that I am more satiated, but still get to enjoy the donut" instead they go the extreme opposite direction and say "must cut out all donuts and only eat healthy foods since donuts don't fill me up". To me, as your post suggests, the sensible thing to do would be to look at the context of your overall diet, figure out where you are sacrificing nutrition and satiety for pure enjoyment, and make small changes until you do a balance that you can live with. That this is not the approach that more people take, that they say "eating nothing but calorie dense foods didn't work so therefore this concept of IIFYM or moderation doesn't work for me at all" when in fact they weren't eating in moderation to begin with... is perplexing.10 -
We can be less bitter, people. Just because the OP is a little frustrated doesn't mean we have to let that make us bitter. Give your two cents, but be the stronger person and keep it respectful (some tones can definitely be detected lol).
The OP was just stating that generalized advice of "its all about CICO, stick to a deficit and you will lose weight" is redundant to most people. Different foods have different effects on different people, and not all people's will power is the same, not everyone's kitchen is the same, and not everyone within the same social circles have the same goals with health (namely, in the family).
It is all about perspective. Give your perspective, and be kind and you won't feel as negative as you do when you write a bitter post. Every person on here that is asking for advice is looking for one thing: perspective. So, share yours. How do you not limit yourself and still stay under? Just saying you do doesn't help anyone.
Cheers, mates. Have a good day.10 -
We can be less bitter, people. Just because the OP is a little frustrated doesn't mean we have to let that make us bitter. Give your two cents, but be the stronger person and keep it respectful (some tones can definitely be detected lol).
The OP was just stating that generalized advice of "its all about CICO, stick to a deficit and you will lose weight" is redundant to most people. Different foods have different effects on different people, and not all people's will power is the same, not everyone's kitchen is the same, and not everyone within the same social circles have the same goals with health (namely, in the family).
It is all about perspective. Give your perspective, and be kind and you won't feel as negative as you do when you write a bitter post. Every person on here that is asking for advice is looking for one thing: perspective. So, share yours. How do you not limit yourself and still stay under? Just saying you do doesn't help anyone.
Cheers, mates. Have a good day.
The OP called the advice that is given by countless successful veterans on these boards time and again, in attempts to help new members be successful as well, "garbage advice".
But thanks for the chastising reminder that we all need to be nicer.19 -
I see what you did there.Just follow it with apple cider vinegar or green tea to reset your metabolism. Then you can eat whatever you like.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Not everyone wants to be like the biggest and baddest body builders. Not to mention the plethora of drugs they take daily help with their physiques immensely. Oh and as of late they are dying off at 50.Absoultely agree, hate this if it fits your macro crap... carbs are not all the same, proteins are not all the same, fats/sugars/oils etc are not all the same.... yes a cheat meal is fine after a solid effort week but dont throw cheat meals in everyday cause it fits the basic macros some overpaid PT has told you to follow, they make money from your slow progress
The biggest and baddest bodybuilders will count every calorie and macro, because it counts and matters
Lollies = Carbs
Rice = Carbs
But theyre not the same carbs and the hidden macros behind it all will bite you in the *kitten* too
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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storyjorie wrote: »If I just ate whatever I loved and stopped when I hit my calorie limit, I'd be done eating at noon. I think IFIFYM works great if you can eat at least 2000 calories and lose, but what if you're smallish, maintain on maybe 1700 calories and need to go down to 1400 or so to lose, and you are one of those people who is often HUNGRY? Suddenly a giant salad with grilled chicken and a teaspoon of olive oil with balsalmic is looking great, while that Big Mac is just a recipe for not being able to eat a decently filling dinner.
Not picking on you, but a couple of points, the first part of your post, no one has said that.....no one. That is a strawman argument. Over and over on these boards and in this thread it has been about moderation, not waking up eating donuts and not stopping till you hit your limit. second part, You're wrong, you absolutely can work a big mac in, not every day (but no one said every day), but occasionally assuming that is something you love. Many people, especially people who are new, think of calories as a number that magically resets at midnight, it doesn't, it is an ongoing/over time thing. A big mac is 563 calories. If I am on 1400 cals per day I can cut 50 calories a day for 12 and haven't missed anything, not even the big mac, or I can add just a little more exercise in. Lastly, if you are small, a 500 calorie deficit "might" be too aggressive in the first place. Perhaps 250 would be easier to sustain over time. Call me mean or whatever you like (the collective you), but people who are 3 months in and start preaching restriction will get no love from me, it very, very rarely works and I am 3 years in and maintaining a 60 pound loss, am in the best shape of my life and I eat ice cream every damn day.
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Maybe for YOU, but I've had lots of clients who over ate up to 3000+ calories a day start by just cutting down by eat LESS. Taught them how to eat slower. And while some complained of some hunger (who doesn't if they have to eat less than they used to), it wasn't as bad at they thought it would be.You guys just take every single word someone writes literally, to the t. I don't mean that you have to spend the rest of your life not eating things you enjoy. I also don't mean that you can NEVER have things you enjoy, or that are calorie dense. What I do mean, and was obvious in the original post, that is if you aren't just looking for something to complain about, is that dieting under the idea that "you can have whatever, so long as it fits in your calorie count" is not an effective long term solution because MOST people, especially larger people, run out of calories waaaaay before they become satiated. If you are a 135lb woman that's 5'9 which I think was an example somewhere in this thread, and you're only eating at a 500 calorie deficit, no *kitten* you are gonna be full before you run out of calories. You're small, even if you aren't at your "goal" you are going to feel satiated. If you are the kind of person who is accustomed to eating 3500-4000 calories a day and your prescribed amount is 2500, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can eat the calorie dense foods you enjoy, but at a lower quantity, and not be absolutely starving to death. Which will lead to a derailment in most people. Contrary to popular belief, will power is not a dominant trait. So there you go, here's another post for you guys to pick apart to for *kitten* that is obviously not what I meant.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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storyjorie wrote: »If I just ate whatever I loved and stopped when I hit my calorie limit, I'd be done eating at noon. I think IFIFYM works great if you can eat at least 2000 calories and lose, but what if you're smallish, maintain on maybe 1700 calories and need to go down to 1400 or so to lose, and you are one of those people who is often HUNGRY? Suddenly a giant salad with grilled chicken and a teaspoon of olive oil with balsalmic is looking great, while that Big Mac is just a recipe for not being able to eat a decently filling dinner.
My calorie goal has been 1200-1400 calories (before exercise) for about 2 years. I do eat some of my exercise calories.
I get hungry if I do not eat enough protein or fat so when I prelog my day I look at protein. I do not eat a super low fat diet. I fill out my meals with vegetables when I want more food.
My advice for people is to plan and prelog your food. Planning helps you include the foods you love in more appropriate portion sizes. Don't try to have all the high calorie foods at once. You will have to make some alterations to how you consume foods.
I eat pretty much the same foods as I did but differently. At the burger place I often get the smaller burger and a side salad with vinaigrette dressing. It does not leave me super hungry. Today I am going to have fries with my burger for lunch and a lower calorie dinner.
On other occasions I would have 2 slices of a thin crust pizza and a salad and feel satisfied instead of 3-4 slices of pizza and breadsticks.
I sometimes skip things like rice, bread or crackers with my meal but sometimes have them if they fit my day.
I cook with less oil. I'm not having fried foods every day.
I put less dressing, condiments, cheese, or butter on my food than I used to.
I eat a couple of small pieces of dark chocolate.
I have looked at 5 crackers vs a sleeve of crackers that I used to consume and decided 5 crackers are not worth the calories. I very rarely eat crackers. I'd rather use those calories on something more worth it.
The advice to eat what you want and fit it in your calorie goal usually assumes people will be doing some adaptations and making some priority choices like these to make things fit.
If you can't be satisfied with these kind of adaptations then do what you need to do. Learn to like different foods for life.13
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