July 2017 Running Challenge
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7/1 8 miles - forced early stop
7/2 Forced rest day
7/3 7 easy miles in high humidity
7/4 10 easy miles in high humidity
7/5 7 miles in high humidity
7/6 Thunderstorms forced rest day
7/7 6 miles zone 2/3
Summer Goal: Get my marathon pace below 9 minutes.
Official Marathon PR: 4:11:28
Next Races (more as I find them):
07/28/17 - Liberty Mile - 1 mile race just to see what a short run really is
08/2017 - Cranberry Cup 5k. (hopefully 0 plan for a PR attempt)
10/14/17 - Stop, Drop, and Run - Fireman style obstacle course - 5km
05/06/18 - Pittsburgh Marathon - aiming for sub four hours.
So the weather peeps were calling for severe thunder starting early afternoon, so I headed out to do like 8 miles this morning. I had to skip the hills which are all trails due to them being a mudfest so was almost a flat run (365 foots of elevation). As I rounded back towards the start of the loop and was approaching mile 6 it started to drizzle. I was trying to decide if I should go back out for 2 more miles when the drizzle turned to a down power and thunder started. Decided that 6 miles was my plan after all.
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Question for those of you that do a lot of long runs (like 15 miles and more).
How do you decide how much fuel you need? I know the rule of thumb of around 100 calories per hour, but how do you know when you are tired cause you have reached your physical limits verse you did not fuel properly? I am trying to teach someone training for a marathon and do not really know the answer. I just fuel every 45 mins (if the run is longer than 1/2 Marathon, bellow I do not worry) and assume I need it. Water is easy... but fuel? How do you figure that out for your specific body?
Thanks!
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Ran out to Delaware park and started running the loop. Ahead was a girl running and I felt quite motivated to pass her I had to kick it up a notch so I was quite pleased when I passed her at the base of the hill. I powered up the hill with my fastest pace on that darn hill!
True story... my last PR for a 10k was because I kept looking for the lady farthest ahead of me and setting my mind to pass her. I picked the ladies cause they tend to wear bright colors that are easy to focus on, where guys tend to wear black. Not universally true of course, but sure seemed like it was solidly true for that race at least.
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cburke8909 wrote: »@zdyb23456 there is documented evidence as to the positive effects women have on male exercise. I am guilty often.
Except I'm a girl
It's weird. I probably wouldn't have tried to pass a guy... it's probably my competitive streak or thinking if she can do it so can I.3 -
7/1 = gym day: 1 hour strength training
7/2 = 13 miles with running group (run/walk)
7/3 = 7.5 miles & 30 minutes strength training
7/4 = Vinyasa yoga class & 4 miles hiking with hubby and pups
7/5 = 7.5 miles (6 - 5 minutes speed intervals)
7/6 = 5.5 miles
7/7 = 3 miles (track workout: 2 laps warm up, x8 300m sprints, x8 100m recovery walk, 2 laps cool down) & gym Kettlebell workout
Met the running group for speed training at a high school track at 6am this morning. After, I hit the gym for a kettlebell strength training workout. It was humid, hot, and hard.
I was super tired this morning because I stayed up late to see Neil Gaiman speak at a local university. Any fellow book nerds in this group? He is a fantastic storyteller! I am having a hard time lately balancing work (2 jobs), family, running, and a social life. Ugh.... I think I need to start scheduling more rest days. I think I saw someone on here call them "Life Days"? I definitely need some more of those.
(July miles to date) 40.5/170 (July goal miles)
Upcoming 2017 Races:
8/12 = Verns No Frills 100 Anniversary 5K Race
10/28 = Hill Country Halloween Half Marathon
11/23 = Georgetown Turkey Trot
12/10 = BCS Half Marathon
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cburke8909 wrote: »@zdyb23456 there is documented evidence as to the positive effects women have on male exercise. I am guilty often.
Except I'm a girl
It's weird. I probably wouldn't have tried to pass a guy... it's probably my competitive streak or thinking if she can do it so can I.
I'm with you on that - although I did once insist on passing two older guys just because I couldn't let the old guys beat me.
If it had been @mobycarp though I wouldn't have even bothered trying....5 -
amymoreorless wrote: »7/1 = gym day: 1 hour strength training
7/2 = 13 miles with running group (run/walk)
7/3 = 7.5 miles & 30 minutes strength training
7/4 = Vinyasa yoga class & 4 miles hiking with hubby and pups
7/5 = 7.5 miles (6 - 5 minutes speed intervals)
7/6 = 5.5 miles
7/7 = 3 miles (track workout: 2 laps warm up, x8 300m sprints, x8 100m recovery walk, 2 laps cool down) & gym Kettlebell workout
Met the running group for speed training at a high school track at 6am this morning. After, I hit the gym for a kettlebell strength training workout. It was humid, hot, and hard.
I was super tired this morning because I stayed up late to see Neil Gaiman speak at a local university. Any fellow book nerds in this group? He is a fantastic storyteller! I am having a hard time lately balancing work (2 jobs), family, running, and a social life. Ugh.... I think I need to start scheduling more rest days. I think I saw someone on here call them "Life Days"? I definitely need some more of those.
(July miles to date) 40.5/170 (July goal miles)
Upcoming 2017 Races:
8/12 = Verns No Frills 100 Anniversary 5K Race
10/28 = Hill Country Halloween Half Marathon
11/23 = Georgetown Turkey Trot
12/10 = BCS Half Marathon
Sooooo jealous! I could listen to him read the phone-book.3 -
@PastorVincent For long runs, I basically play it by ear and figure things out as I go along. During the spring when it was a lot cooler, I could do 19 mile runs without fuel, but there's absolutely no way I can do that now with current temps and humidity. At the moment, I figure along the same lines as you...a gel every 45 minutes (I go off every 4.5 miles, which is the same thing at a 10:00 pace) and generally see better results towards the end of the run. If I ever hit a limit, I'll evaluate the run to see if there were any external factors within my control that affected anything (lack of sleep, not enough recovery from a previous hard run, etc) and rectify those first. If the run is still too demanding towards the end, I'll try again but with more fuel thrown in. If after that it's still too demanding (due to heat and humidity), then I'll dial back the pace and see how things go. As I said, I generally play things by ear.1
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cburke8909 wrote: »@zdyb23456 there is documented evidence as to the positive effects women have on male exercise. I am guilty often.
Except I'm a girl
It's weird. I probably wouldn't have tried to pass a guy... it's probably my competitive streak or thinking if she can do it so can I.
@zbyb23456 ha ha well I was thinking that but thought maybe I was wrong. I agree on the competitive streak. If I remotely think you are in my AG in a race I just need to pass you ha ha, or at least try. I ran a 5K a month or so back and this gentleman ran in front of me for 3 miles, he was 82 years old, I could have passed him at the finish but I didn't want to, sure enough some stupid girl in my AG passed me 4 steps from the finish). Skip said teach you for being nice. Yeah from the same girl who let a 10 year old pass her at the finish of a race.3 -
amymoreorless wrote: »
I was super tired this morning because I stayed up late to see Neil Gaiman speak at a local university. Any fellow book nerds in this group? He is a fantastic storyteller!
Well, I am a published Scifi&Fantasy author with over a million words in print... does that count as a book nerd?
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7/1 - 7 miles. Beautiful morning to run!
7/2 - Rest day.
7/3 - 5 miles. Kinda sloggish.
7/4 - 5 miles. Humid.
7/5 - Nothing so far, we'll see. Fireworks hangover, slept in.
7/6 - 5 miles. Crazy humidity level...so sticky.
7/7 - 4 miles.
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PastorVincent wrote: »amymoreorless wrote: »
I was super tired this morning because I stayed up late to see Neil Gaiman speak at a local university. Any fellow book nerds in this group? He is a fantastic storyteller!
Well, I am a published Scifi&Fantasy author with over a million words in print... does that count as a book nerd?
@PastorVincent Ummm, yes! What have you written? I will check it out. 0 -
BruinsGal_91 wrote: »amymoreorless wrote: »7/1 = gym day: 1 hour strength training
7/2 = 13 miles with running group (run/walk)
7/3 = 7.5 miles & 30 minutes strength training
7/4 = Vinyasa yoga class & 4 miles hiking with hubby and pups
7/5 = 7.5 miles (6 - 5 minutes speed intervals)
7/6 = 5.5 miles
7/7 = 3 miles (track workout: 2 laps warm up, x8 300m sprints, x8 100m recovery walk, 2 laps cool down) & gym Kettlebell workout
Met the running group for speed training at a high school track at 6am this morning. After, I hit the gym for a kettlebell strength training workout. It was humid, hot, and hard.
I was super tired this morning because I stayed up late to see Neil Gaiman speak at a local university. Any fellow book nerds in this group? He is a fantastic storyteller! I am having a hard time lately balancing work (2 jobs), family, running, and a social life. Ugh.... I think I need to start scheduling more rest days. I think I saw someone on here call them "Life Days"? I definitely need some more of those.
(July miles to date) 40.5/170 (July goal miles)
Upcoming 2017 Races:
8/12 = Verns No Frills 100 Anniversary 5K Race
10/28 = Hill Country Halloween Half Marathon
11/23 = Georgetown Turkey Trot
12/10 = BCS Half Marathon
Sooooo jealous! I could listen to him read the phone-book.
@BruinsGal_91 What about the Cheescake Factory menu?http://www.latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-et-jc-gaiman-cheesecake-20170523-story.html
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amymoreorless wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »
Well, I am a published Scifi&Fantasy author with over a million words in print... does that count as a book nerd?
@PastorVincent Ummm, yes! What have you written? I will check it out.
@amymoreorless Umm lots words?
heh, the easiest way is to just link to my Amazon author page (though I am in all major bookstores): http://amzn.to/2tQF8Ch 0 -
PastorVincent wrote: »Question for those of you that do a lot of long runs (like 15 miles and more).
How do you decide how much fuel you need? I know the rule of thumb of around 100 calories per hour, but how do you know when you are tired cause you have reached your physical limits verse you did not fuel properly? I am trying to teach someone training for a marathon and do not really know the answer. I just fuel every 45 mins (if the run is longer than 1/2 Marathon, bellow I do not worry) and assume I need it. Water is easy... but fuel? How do you figure that out for your specific body?
Thanks!
I don't usually worry about fueling for my long runs. The idea during my training is to exhaust your internal stores to create a stimulus that will make your body more efficient at using fat for fuel and to be able to increase glycogen stores.
As far as racing, it goes by experience. You start with some text book advise of X amount of calories per 45 minutes. Then you learn whether that is too little or too much.
Textbook advice is about 120-240 calories per hour.
Now to get on my soapbox for a minute.....
"but how do you know when you are tired cause you have reached your physical limits verse you did not fuel properly"
This is why I research the crap out of what happens to your body during extreme exercise. What do all the different things in your body do and react? What causes fatigue? How many different things cause fatigue? There is no simple answer to your question and there is still a lot of things smart scientists are still researching. That is why I suggested reading the 80/20 book and many others and not just quickly go right to the plans at the end. Learn. And there are plenty of other books I read to learn concepts. Not just following a "plan".
People talk about how to fuel properly and how to refuel. But your body cannot use all that fuel efficiently if you don't have the oxygen to burn it properly. All that fat that is around each of our bodies is enough to fuel 5 marathons or more. That's even if you have a low body fat percentage. The problem isn't fuel, the problem is the ability to burn that fuel efficiently. Run too fast, and you are forcing your body to use carbs instead of fat and you will be relying too much on anaerobic energy which is very inefficient.
2 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis (using anerobic means only)
~32 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis/Krebs Cycle/ETC (the full aerobic effect)
The effect of using Glycolysis alone is dumping too much lactate and H+ ions into your system which acidifies your blood and muscles, which is one form of fatigue.
The effect of relying too much on glycolysis (run fast, slow down, run fast, slow down.....) is slowly exhausting your glycogen stores prematurely in very long distances, which causes a bonking effect. You will always burn faster than what you can refuel on the run. it's a simple math:
160 lb person running 5 mph will burn 606 calories/ hour.
The body can at best absorb about 1.5 g (or 6 calories) of glucose per minute (360 calories per hour).
You cannot refuel fast enough. So you have to rely on fat storage. Train to your body to not rely on refueling but to burn in the most efficient manner that will yield the most ATP possible. Train your aerobic to be better. Train your metabolic system and respiratory system. If you're running very long distances, stop worrying about speed workouts and make your body an oxygen burning machine before you start thinking about raw speed and VO2 max workouts. Know your paces and what pace is your easy, tempo, and anaerobic zones. That's why I suggested reading the 80/20 book, not to go straight to the plans. learn and read about Arthur Lydiard, Dr Jack Daniels, Phillip Maffetone, Matt Fitzgerald, Scott Jurek, Sage Canaday, Tim Noakes, Greg McMillan, the Hanson brothers, and Jeff Gaudette. Not just their plans but the concepts they teach.
5 -
@PastorVincent, you're now in my Audible wish list. Right after this current zombie novel, and the next one in line. Your other username now makes sense!
7.13 miles this morning for my longest run to date. Then, came home and got in the pool. Man, that cool water felt good!
July totals: 15.06 / 604 -
This is why I research the crap out of what happens to your body during extreme exercise. What do all the different things in your body do and react? What causes fatigue? How many different things cause fatigue? There is no simple answer to your question and there is still a lot of things smart scientists are still researching. That is why I suggested reading the 80/20 book and many others and not just quickly go right to the plans at the end. Learn. And there are plenty of other books I read to learn concepts. Not just following a "plan".
People talk about how to fuel properly and how to refuel. But your body cannot use all that fuel efficiently if you don't have the oxygen to burn it properly. All that fat that is around each of bodies is enough to fuel 5 marathons or more. That's even if you have a low body fat percentage. The problem isn't fuel, the problem is the ability to burn that fuel efficiently. Run too fast, and you are forcing your body to use carbs instead of fat and you will be relying too much on anaerobic energy which is very inefficient.
2 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis (using anerobic means only)
~32 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis/Krebs Cycle/ETC (the full aerobic effect)
The effect of using Glycolysis alone is dumping too much lactate and H+ ions into your system which acidifies your blood and muscles, which is one form of fatigue.
The effect of relying too much on glycolysis (run fast, slow down, run fast, slow down.....) is slowly exhausting your glycogen stores prematurely in very long distances, which causes a bonking effect. You will always burn faster than what you can refuel on the run. it's a simple math:
160 lb person running 5 mph will burn 606 calories/ hour.
The body can at best absorb about 1.5 g (or 6 calories) of glucose per minute (360 calories per hour).
You cannot refuel fast enough. So you have to rely on fat storage. Train to your body to not rely on refueling but to burn in the most efficient manner that will yield the most ATP possible. Train your aerobic to be better. Train your metabolic system and respiratory system. If you're running very long distances, stop worrying about speed workouts and make your body an oxygen burning machine before you start thinking about raw speed and VO2 max. Know your paces and what pace is your easy, tempo, and anaerobic zones. That's why I suggested reading the 80/20 book, not to go straight to the plans. learn and read about Arthur Lydiard, Dr Jack Daniels, Phillip Maffetone, Matt Fitzgerald, Scott Jurek, Sage Canaday, Tim Noakes, Greg McMillan, the Hanson brothers, and Jeff Gaudette. Not just their plans but the concepts they teach.
I have read the book and actually skipped the plans. I figure I will use them when I am 18 weeks out from my next marathon. My last real long run was 19 miles, and I just found a free trail for Strava so I can do the HR zone thing and plugged in the numbers calculated from the 80/20 book. Ran 82% of those 19 miles in Zone 2, which if I understood the book is what I should do.
I have my 6-8 mile runs and trying to pick one of them a week to stay in zone 3 for, but I have a tendency to bleed into zone 4. Still working out a way to focus on a zone and stay in it. I am not good at running by feel.
Anyways I say all that so that you know I did listen, and you did not preach to deaf ears.
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@PastorVincent, you're now in my Audible wish list. Right after this current zombie novel, and the next one in line. Your other username now makes sense!
7.13 miles this morning for my longest run to date. Then, came home and got in the pool. Man, that cool water felt good!
July totals: 15.06 / 60
Hey, thanks! I hope you enjoy them. I feel my current work is better than my older work, which I guess makes sense. 0 -
July 7: 3.6 km
I was having a good run with less walk breaks than usual, but then my left achilles started paining. I decided to cut my workout short and walk the rest of the way home. Felt fine once I was walking, so hopefully it was nothing.
MTD: 22.97 / 75 km5 -
PastorVincent wrote: »This is why I research the crap out of what happens to your body during extreme exercise. What do all the different things in your body do and react? What causes fatigue? How many different things cause fatigue? There is no simple answer to your question and there is still a lot of things smart scientists are still researching. That is why I suggested reading the 80/20 book and many others and not just quickly go right to the plans at the end. Learn. And there are plenty of other books I read to learn concepts. Not just following a "plan".
People talk about how to fuel properly and how to refuel. But your body cannot use all that fuel efficiently if you don't have the oxygen to burn it properly. All that fat that is around each of bodies is enough to fuel 5 marathons or more. That's even if you have a low body fat percentage. The problem isn't fuel, the problem is the ability to burn that fuel efficiently. Run too fast, and you are forcing your body to use carbs instead of fat and you will be relying too much on anaerobic energy which is very inefficient.
2 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis (using anerobic means only)
~32 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis/Krebs Cycle/ETC (the full aerobic effect)
The effect of using Glycolysis alone is dumping too much lactate and H+ ions into your system which acidifies your blood and muscles, which is one form of fatigue.
The effect of relying too much on glycolysis (run fast, slow down, run fast, slow down.....) is slowly exhausting your glycogen stores prematurely in very long distances, which causes a bonking effect. You will always burn faster than what you can refuel on the run. it's a simple math:
160 lb person running 5 mph will burn 606 calories/ hour.
The body can at best absorb about 1.5 g (or 6 calories) of glucose per minute (360 calories per hour).
You cannot refuel fast enough. So you have to rely on fat storage. Train to your body to not rely on refueling but to burn in the most efficient manner that will yield the most ATP possible. Train your aerobic to be better. Train your metabolic system and respiratory system. If you're running very long distances, stop worrying about speed workouts and make your body an oxygen burning machine before you start thinking about raw speed and VO2 max. Know your paces and what pace is your easy, tempo, and anaerobic zones. That's why I suggested reading the 80/20 book, not to go straight to the plans. learn and read about Arthur Lydiard, Dr Jack Daniels, Phillip Maffetone, Matt Fitzgerald, Scott Jurek, Sage Canaday, Tim Noakes, Greg McMillan, the Hanson brothers, and Jeff Gaudette. Not just their plans but the concepts they teach.
I have read the book and actually skipped the plans. I figure I will use them when I am 18 weeks out from my next marathon. My last real long run was 19 miles, and I just found a free trail for Strava so I can do the HR zone thing and plugged in the numbers calculated from the 80/20 book. Ran 82% of those 19 miles in Zone 2, which if I understood the book is what I should do.
I have my 6-8 mile runs and trying to pick one of them a week to stay in zone 3 for, but I have a tendency to bleed into zone 4. Still working out a way to focus on a zone and stay in it. I am not good at running by feel.
Anyways I say all that so that you know I did listen, and you did not preach to deaf ears.
@PastorVincent I wasn't trying to pick on you (or more accurately just you). I was making that a blanket statement for everyone. You just happened to be the one to ask the question. LOL0
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