July 2017 Running Challenge

MNLittleFinn wrote: »

Tomorrow will be different, we're going out for 4 hours and planning on fueling during the run/hike... I'll be trying Tailwind for the first time, and my new Honeystinger waffles.

Stoshew71 wrote: »

PastorVincent wrote: »

Question for those of you that do a lot of long runs (like 15 miles and more).

How do you decide how much fuel you need? I know the rule of thumb of around 100 calories per hour, but how do you know when you are tired cause you have reached your physical limits verse you did not fuel properly? I am trying to teach someone training for a marathon and do not really know the answer. I just fuel every 45 mins (if the run is longer than 1/2 Marathon, bellow I do not worry) and assume I need it. Water is easy... but fuel? How do you figure that out for your specific body?

Thanks!

I don't usually worry about fueling for my long runs. The idea during my training is to exhaust your internal stores to create a stimulus that will make your body more efficient at using fat for fuel and to be able to increase glycogen stores.

As far as racing, it goes by experience. You start with some text book advise of X amount of calories per 45 minutes. Then you learn whether that is too little or too much.

Textbook advice is about 120-240 calories per hour.




Now to get on my soapbox for a minute.....


"but how do you know when you are tired cause you have reached your physical limits verse you did not fuel properly"

This is why I research the crap out of what happens to your body during extreme exercise. What do all the different things in your body do and react? What causes fatigue? How many different things cause fatigue? There is no simple answer to your question and there is still a lot of things smart scientists are still researching. That is why I suggested reading the 80/20 book and many others and not just quickly go right to the plans at the end. Learn. And there are plenty of other books I read to learn concepts. Not just following a "plan".

People talk about how to fuel properly and how to refuel. But your body cannot use all that fuel efficiently if you don't have the oxygen to burn it properly. All that fat that is around each of our bodies is enough to fuel 5 marathons or more. That's even if you have a low body fat percentage. The problem isn't fuel, the problem is the ability to burn that fuel efficiently. Run too fast, and you are forcing your body to use carbs instead of fat and you will be relying too much on anaerobic energy which is very inefficient.

2 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis (using anerobic means only)
~32 net ATP is produced by Glycolysis/Krebs Cycle/ETC (the full aerobic effect)

The effect of using Glycolysis alone is dumping too much lactate and H+ ions into your system which acidifies your blood and muscles, which is one form of fatigue.

The effect of relying too much on glycolysis (run fast, slow down, run fast, slow down.....) is slowly exhausting your glycogen stores prematurely in very long distances, which causes a bonking effect. You will always burn faster than what you can refuel on the run. it's a simple math:

160 lb person running 5 mph will burn 606 calories/ hour.
The body can at best absorb about 1.5 g (or 6 calories) of glucose per minute (360 calories per hour).

You cannot refuel fast enough. So you have to rely on fat storage. Train to your body to not rely on refueling but to burn in the most efficient manner that will yield the most ATP possible. Train your aerobic to be better. Train your metabolic system and respiratory system. If you're running very long distances, stop worrying about speed workouts and make your body an oxygen burning machine before you start thinking about raw speed and VO2 max workouts. Know your paces and what pace is your easy, tempo, and anaerobic zones. That's why I suggested reading the 80/20 book, not to go straight to the plans. learn and read about Arthur Lydiard, Dr Jack Daniels, Phillip Maffetone, Matt Fitzgerald, Scott Jurek, Sage Canaday, Tim Noakes, Greg McMillan, the Hanson brothers, and Jeff Gaudette. Not just their plans but the concepts they teach.

PastorVincent wrote: »

MNLittleFinn wrote: »

PastorVincent wrote: »

MNLittleFinn wrote: »

Tomorrow will be different, we're going out for 4 hours and planning on fueling during the run/hike... I'll be trying Tailwind for the first time, and my new Honeystinger waffles.

Not heard of Tailwind? Glancing at their site seems to be a drink mix?

Yeah. Basically electrolyte and fuel mix. Buddy is bringing it. It's his main fuel on ultra. Still in the learning/experiment phase for fueling and have a steep learning curve before October

I REALLY like the sound of its advertising. If all I ever had to carry with me was hydration.... hmmm... that would be way easier. I am a very heavy sweater. 2 hour a run has me adjusting the drawstring on my shorts so that they do not fall off and tightening hydration belt and easily dropping 7-10 pounds. I could dilute the stuff out to 40oz which is what I drink per hour during the summer (only cause that is near the limit if what I can easily carry right now) which will help with the complaints I see it beeing too salty or too sweet for some.