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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Those kids knew they were out of shape and shaming them didn't necessarily help.
I started overeating when I hit puberty because I was sexually molested when I was a small child and developing sexual characteristics was scary. I didn't want to be attractive.
None of this was a conscious decision on my part, it took me years to sort through all of this, but I have to tell you that my story is not unique. I have to question how the fat shaming and bullying I experienced on the playground in anyway helped me or dealt with the issues underlying the cause of my being fat.
There are many reasons why a person could be fat, and not all of them are simplistic. To assume that relative strangers should pipe up and say something when in fact they could be doing more harm than good is really ignoring how complex obesity is.
On the other end of the spectrum, I gained weight because food and the act of eating were pleasant. I experienced very little to no fat shaming as a child or as an adult, at least none that I can recall. A few random remarks from strangers which did not happen frequently at all, and when they did I shrugged them off and it did not affect my lack of desire to lose weight. When I decided to lose weight, starting was doable and keeping at it was doable because I did not have any emotional issues attached to my weight that I needed to work through. Had I been bullied or hurt, the outcome might have been different. Bullying may lead to self loathing and self punishment, and guess how some people punish themselves? By eating. Eating can be used in self-soothing and self-punishment, sometimes both at the same time. I don't remember where I read it, but there was a study making the rounds a few months ago that people who were fat shamed were less likely to be successful at weight loss.13 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »
I remember a world where everyone wasn't so damned fragile, where people weren't obsessed with political correctness, and (gasp) people communicated honestly. Tactful, honest, constructive criticism has a place in society and redacting honesty from communication to spare feelings can (and has) enable(d) people to comfortably engage in destructive behavior and suffer real damage that is far beyond anything that words can inflict upon them.
I agree.
Fat shaming is neither tactful nor constructive criticism.26 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Yeah, the PE teacher told the kids who couldn't run a mile they were out of shape. Maybe had them run extra to fix the issue instead of letting them sit in the shade or stroll around the track like we do now
Back in my day, our moms dressed us in Toughskins from Sears and locked us outside for the summer. And we ran around in feral packs of children and rode our bikes/ponies/skateboards to the ball diamond and ice cream shop and set up BMX jumps in the woods and threw pine cones and apples at each other and didn't bother running home crying because Mom wouldn't unlock the door unless there was blood involved anyway. And we played Space Invaders on the Atari at our cousin's house, because we were too poor to afford our own, AND WE LIKED IT!
[nods emphatically and raps cane on porch]35 -
French_Peasant wrote: »
Back in my day, our moms dressed us in Toughskins from Sears and locked us outside for the summer. And we ran around in feral packs of children and rode our bikes/ponies/skateboards to the ball diamond and ice cream shop and set up BMX jumps in the woods and threw pine cones and apples at each other and didn't bother running home crying because Mom wouldn't unlock the door unless there was blood involved anyway. And we played Space Invaders on the Atari at our cousin's house, because we were too poor to afford our own, AND WE LIKED IT!
[nods emphatically and raps cane on porch]
Yup, I'm another of the be-home-when-the-streetlights-come-on generation.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »
Same here. Still couldn't outrun my fork back then.6 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Yeah, the PE teacher told the kids who couldn't run a mile they were out of shape. Maybe had them run extra to fix the issue instead of letting them sit in the shade or stroll around the track like we do now
The problem with the snowflaking of America is that this generation has lost their resiliency to mean words. Kids are killing themselves over verbal bullying and shaming that wouldn't have even ruined my day when I was a kid.15 -
You know, there's a happy medium between the glory days of a culture that ignored bullying and what you call "the snowflaking".
Bullying was never right and should not have been ignored and written off as "kids being kids".30 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »
The problem with the snowflaking of America is that this generation has lost their resiliency to mean words. Kids are killing themselves over verbal bullying and shaming that wouldn't have even ruined my day when I was a kid.
[Unpopular opinion]
The crackdown on bullying has made bullying worse. 40 years ago, and even 30 years ago, at some point the bully gets popped in the mouth/face. everyone gets a timeout and maybe a day off from school, and the "victim" gets generally left alone. The next "victim" sees the method succeed and implements it when appropriate.
Today, the bully gets nothing, the "victim" gets a minimum of 2 weeks suspension or worse. The next "victim" sees this and decides to either eat a gun at home, or build a bomb and put it in the Bully's locker.
[/Unpopular opinion]16 -
Exactly this.
Fat shaming is bad, period.
Fat shaming is not many of the things people trying to defend fat shaming seem to think it is. It is NOT acknowledging that being overweight can be unhealthy or promoting physical fitness standards.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Exactly this.
Fat shaming is bad, period.
Fat shaming is not many of the things people trying to defend fat shaming seem to think it is. It is NOT acknowledging that being overweight can be unhealthy or promoting physical fitness standards.
It's also NOT many of the things HAES and FAM say it is.2 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »
The problem with the snowflaking of America is that this generation has lost their resiliency to mean words. Kids are killing themselves over verbal bullying and shaming that wouldn't have even ruined my day when I was a kid.
Hmm. Kids weren't bothered at all by bullying back in the good old days is definitely NOT the world I grew up in. People were less likely to give those kids a recourse and more likely to let them think if they were made fun of daily to an intolerable degree or even physically attacked regularly it was their own fault, and something more to feel shame about, yeah. I recall being regularly made miserable to the point I was basically sick in school for a period of time and hiding it from my parents since I didn't want them to also know I was a loser.
This was not a positive experience for me that made me a better and stronger person later in life. I think I would have been stronger in some ways if my parents had had a clue (or the teachers had, or had cared) and I'd been moved to a different school or class, I dunno. I do know it messed me up to some degree into my adulthood.
I was never fat as a kid, for the record. (Did this play into why I emotionally ate and later got fat? Who knows, I wouldn't say it did or didn't and that's something I can work on and fix.)
But sneering at kids who are victims of bullying is really lame. As is being unaware that it can be a problem.23 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Hmm. Kids weren't bothered at all by bullying back in the good old days is definitely NOT the world I grew up in. People were less likely to give those kids a recourse and more likely to let them think if they were made fun of daily to an intolerable degree or even physically attacked regularly it was their own fault, and something more to feel shame about, yeah. I recall being regularly made miserable to the point I was basically sick in school for a period of time and hiding it from my parents since I didn't want them to also know I was a loser.
This was not a positive experience for me that made me a better and stronger person later in life. I think I would have been stronger in some ways if my parents had had a clue (or the teachers had, or had cared) and I'd been moved to a different school or class, I dunno. I do know it messed me up to some degree into my adulthood.
I was never fat as a kid, for the record. (Did this play into why I emotionally ate and later got fat? Who knows, I wouldn't say it did or didn't and that's something I can work on and fix.)
But sneering at kids who are victims of bullying is really lame. As is being aware that it can be a problem.
Agreed.2 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »
The problem with the snowflaking of America is that this generation has lost their resiliency to mean words. Kids are killing themselves over verbal bullying and shaming that wouldn't have even ruined my day when I was a kid.
Do you truly believe that kids "killing themselves over verbal bullying and shaming" didn't happen when you were young?14 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
It's also NOT many of the things HAES and FAM say it is.
Yes, I agree. If someone tells me that making someone who takes up two seats buy two seats or having rules about who can go on amusement park rides or -- most significantly -- a doctor expressing concern about a patient's weight = "fat shaming," I will argue with that. That's why I'm not a fan of HAES, although I am a fan of helping people take control of what they feel ready to take control of (which often IMO means focusing on eating healthfully and exercising and letting the weight loss come without focusing on dieting if you are someone with certain past experiences with bingeing and dieting and so on).
However, I haven't seen anyone here, or for that matter anyone I know offline, suggesting that fat shaming should be defined in such a ridiculous way EXCEPT FOR those who want to defend fat shaming. If someone does, and says doctors shouldn't comment on weight, then I will say that's ridiculous (as indeed I just did).5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Hmm. Kids weren't bothered at all by bullying back in the good old days is definitely NOT the world I grew up in. People were less likely to give those kids a recourse and more likely to let them think if they were made fun of daily to an intolerable degree or even physically attacked regularly it was their own fault, and something more to feel shame about, yeah. I recall being regularly made miserable to the point I was basically sick in school for a period of time and hiding it from my parents since I didn't want them to also know I was a loser.
This was not a positive experience for me that made me a better and stronger person later in life. I think I would have been stronger in some ways if my parents had had a clue (or the teachers had, or had cared) and I'd been moved to a different school or class, I dunno. I do know it messed me up to some degree into my adulthood.
I was never fat as a kid, for the record. (Did this play into why I emotionally ate and later got fat? Who knows, I wouldn't say it did or didn't and that's something I can work on and fix.)
But sneering at kids who are victims of bullying is really lame. As is being unaware that it can be a problem.
Who said kids weren't bothered by bullies? As a kid who didn't actually grow to an adult size until I was 18, wore glasses, was unathletic, and had a mouth full of over-sized adult teeth that I didn't grow into until I was 18, I absorbed my share of bullying, both mental and physical. No one is excusing bullying, you are addressing a strawman here.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Hmm. Kids weren't bothered at all by bullying back in the good old days is definitely NOT the world I grew up in. People were less likely to give those kids a recourse and more likely to let them think if they were made fun of daily to an intolerable degree or even physically attacked regularly it was their own fault, and something more to feel shame about, yeah. I recall being regularly made miserable to the point I was basically sick in school for a period of time and hiding it from my parents since I didn't want them to also know I was a loser.
This was not a positive experience for me that made me a better and stronger person later in life. I think I would have been stronger in some ways if my parents had had a clue (or the teachers had, or had cared) and I'd been moved to a different school or class, I dunno. I do know it messed me up to some degree into my adulthood.
I was never fat as a kid, for the record. (Did this play into why I emotionally ate and later got fat? Who knows, I wouldn't say it did or didn't and that's something I can work on and fix.)
But sneering at kids who are victims of bullying is really lame. As is being unaware that it can be a problem.
Strawman alert. This is not the issue at hand, but the process that was put into place handling bullying.
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Strawman alert. This is not the issue at hand, but the process that was put into place handling bullying.
Strongly disagree.
[/quote]Bry_Lander wrote: »
The problem with the snowflaking of America is that this generation has lost their resiliency to mean words. Kids are killing themselves over verbal bullying and shaming that wouldn't have even ruined my day when I was a kid.11 -
Strawman alert. This is not the issue at hand, but the process that was put into place handling bullying.
Calling someone's behavior a symptom of the "snowflaking of America" can legitimately be read as a sneer. It might not have been how it was meant, but "snowflake" is commonly used to demean people.23 -
Hey, we're back to the victim thingy.
Watch out, pretty soon it turns into PSTD/Combat horrors, ya know?2 -
or PTSD.3
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janejellyroll wrote: »
Calling someone's behavior a symptom of the "snowflaking of America" can legitimately be read as a sneer. It might not have been how it was meant, but "snowflake" is commonly used to demean people.
Let's establish the parameters then. If you need a safe space when confronted with an opposing view is the term appropriate?
Anything can legitimately be read as a sneer by a snowflake. It's a race to the bottom with no winners...all losers.13 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »
Huh?
When I walk into a Krispy Kreme and smells the hot donuts, I joke that I gain a pound or two just from that.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Calling someone's behavior a symptom of the "snowflaking of America" can legitimately be read as a sneer. It might not have been how it was meant, but "snowflake" is commonly used to demean people.
Or unfortunately it can be a pretty good description of someone's actions, similar to victim mentality.4 -
Let's establish the parameters then. If you need a safe space when confronted with an opposing view is the term appropriate?
Anything can legitimately be read as a sneer by a snowflake. It's a race to the bottom with no winners...all losers.
Are we talking about people who need a safe space when they're confronted with an opposing point of view? I thought we were talking about children being bullied. These seem like two distinct things to me.
I'd be happy to talk about these hypothetical people who need a safe space when they encounter an opposing point, it just seems like a new turn in the conversation. Or are you just curious to know if I would ever consider the term appropriate?15 -
Bullying is such a strange topic for me. I was bullied mercilessly in school. I was the fat, short, effeminate kid all the way through school, with glasses, braces, and a bad haircut my mom gave me at home once a month. Every day was torture but I still went to school. I maintained a 4.0 and went off to college as soon as I could.
I could have easily shut down but I didn't. I learned to draw a very detailed map of Hell, hand it to my hecklers, and tell them to begin their journey forthwith. And no, I'm not just talking about name calling. I was locked in rooms, thrown in trash cans, physically assaulted, even spit on. I didn't post about it on MySpace. Did I cry about it? Sure, every goddamn night. Did I write *kitten* emo poetry about it? Sure did. But I got through it.
I never thought of offing myself. I never thought about blowing up the school. I just thought about surviving...and I did. So it kind of puzzles me when others can't. Maybe it's because social media makes everything so much more immediate. Maybe it's some other factor. I just tend to agree that there is something making people unable to shrug things off as easily and get on with their lives. We only have one after all.18 -
Let's establish the parameters then. If you need a safe space when confronted with an opposing view is the term appropriate?
That's not what we are talking about. (Seems like the people involved in this debate aren't frightened of hearing opposing views and standing up for what we think, no?)
I'm specifically talking about the comment I quoted.2 -
SiegfriedXXL wrote: »Bullying is such a strange topic for me. I was bullied mercilessly in school. I was the fat, short, effeminate kid all the way through school, with glasses, braces, and a bad haircut my mom gave me at home once a month. Every day was torture but I still went to school. I maintained a 4.0 and went off to college as soon as I could.
I could have easily shut down but I didn't. I learned to draw a very detailed map of Hell, hand it to my hecklers, and tell them to begin their journey forthwith. And no, I'm not just talking about name calling. I was locked in rooms, thrown in trash cans, physically assaulted, even spit on. I didn't post about it on MySpace. Did I cry about it? Sure, every goddamn night. Did I write *kitten* emo poetry about it? Sure did. But I got through it.
I never thought of offing myself. I never thought about blowing up the school. I just thought about surviving...and I did. So it kind of puzzles me when others can't. Maybe it's because social media makes everything so much more immediate. Maybe it's some other factor. I just tend to agree that there is something making people unable to shrug things off as easily and get on with their lives. We only have one after all.
I didn't kill myself or commit violence either (obviously) -- and it goes without saying, I'd hope, that I consider killing other people inappropriate, period, especially but not only complete innocents.
But to say -- as the other poster was -- that back in the day we just shrugged it off or weren't bothered by it, or it didn't hurt us, so everything was good then and is bad now (that people take it more seriously) seems to me totally inconsistent with what I saw and experienced back in the day and to how I saw people react.
That I ended up a pretty successful person and got past it doesn't mean that people who don't are just weak and we are coddling them. It means that maybe I don't know all they were experiencing and that people are different.
And people did kill themselves back when I was a kid too, so this idea that it's because kids are coddled now is nuts.
I'm not saying I had it worse than anyone else, who could say (and I do think lots of people had it a lot worse than me). But I was not unbothered by it, which is why I brought it up; I don't think it was unimportant or good for me, and that the culture of the time (or my school or my family -- obv the latter had a lot to do with it) was such that I said nothing about it and felt like it must be because there was something wrong with me (and still have a suspicion of that in the back of my head such that I usually would never admit to anyone that it happened) is screwed up and not a sign of a better way, IMO. That was the point I was trying to make.13 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
I didn't kill myself or commit violence either (obviously) -- and it goes without saying, I'd hope, that I consider killing other people inappropriate, period, especially but not only complete innocents.
But to say -- as the other poster was -- that back in the day we just shrugged it off or weren't bothered by it, or it didn't hurt us, so everything was good then and is bad now (that people take it more seriously) seems to me totally inconsistent with what I saw and experienced back in the day and to how I saw people react.
That I ended up a pretty successful person and got past it doesn't mean that people who don't are just weak and we are coddling them. It means that maybe I don't know all they were experiencing and that people are different.
And people did kill themselves back when I was a kid too, so this idea that it's because kids are coddled now is nuts.
I'm not saying I had it worse than anyone else, who could say (and I do think lots of people had it a lot worse than me). But I was not unbothered by it, which is why I brought it up; I don't think it was unimportant or good for me, and that the culture of the time (or my school or my family -- obv the latter had a lot to do with it) was such that I said nothing about it and felt like it must be because there was something wrong with me (and still have a suspicion of that in the back of my head such that I usually would never admit to anyone that it happened) is screwed up and not a sign of a better way, IMO. That was the point I was trying to make.
For context, I'm 38. As a teenager, I had several friends who tried to kill themselves. Only one of them seemed to be related to social issues (that I know of), but the idea that children/teenagers are weaker today or point to some kind of "snowflaking" trend doesn't really resonate with me. And my peers and I didn't even have to worry about social media until we were older. It seems like young people today deal with a peer environment that is, in some ways, much more immersive and 24/7 than the ones I had to deal with when I was younger.12 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
That's not what we are talking about. (Seems like the people involved in this debate aren't frightened of hearing opposing views and standing up for what we think, no?)
I'm specifically talking about the comment I quoted.
The term bully has been used by snowflakes in these circumstances, so the definition and parameters have certainly expanded in a generation.
There is certainly a correlation between the increased ease of life in Western civilization and the increase in snowflakes. Causation could never be proven as the entire concept is subjective and only exists when the individuals allow bullying to occur. In the case of the anti-bullying campaign this made the issue profoundly worse. Expanding the definition of bullying to a completely subjective behavior and offering no corrective measure.7 -
My unpopular fitness theory is the more someone complains about snowflakes the more likely they're a snowflake in their own special way.38
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