Paleo vs Plant based vs low calorie?

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  • etraynumcameron
    etraynumcameron Posts: 1 Member
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    For JAT74, just wanted to note that maybe you should get your resting metabolic rate tested by a medical facility along with an analysis of your actual lean body mass so that you can know with more clarity how many calories you burn in a resting state and when active to plan out your micro/macro and caloric needs.

    I agree that 900 calories is very low. I would never be able to survive with my mental clarity in tact eating so few calories!

    Years ago I had my RMR tested at a university here in the states for free. A friend of mine went to the university and they were giving free tests out on a new machine that students were performing under the supervision of a medical professional. I also got submersed in water to see how much lean muscle my body actually had. It has helped me to create a more personal calorie deficit goal and I found out I can eat about 100-150 more calories than the average woman since I have more lean muscle. I also know there are RMR tests available now on the market, but I'm not sure of their accuracy. For the test I took, you just have to breathe in a tube for 5-10 minutes to get your RMR. I know they offer this sort of test as well at weight management centers in the US.

  • try2again
    try2again Posts: 3,562 Member
    edited July 2017
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    JAT74 wrote: »

    Unfortuantely I can't change my work/everyday life, so need to think about eating lower calories and maybe also different foods. When I eat even a little more (like I did this weekend), I gain weight again. As an example I've gained about 1.5 lbs over the weekend and I haven't had any alcohol or eaten badly. I've eaten approximately 300-500 calories per day over my usual 900-1000 calories but that's been enough for me to see weight gain.

    I think your basic question has been addressed here- there are a variety of diets that can help a person meet their goals and which one a person chooses is largely dependent on personal preference. If you personally wish to incorporate more fruits & veggies into your diet, that sounds like a fine goal, but I doubt stressing about the other issues are particularly beneficial. Moderation in all things is a great rule for most.

    What I would like to mention is that some of your comments, including the above about having gained 1.5 lbs over the weekend, seem to indicate that, like many, you lack some basic knowledge of how the body works. (I'm not saying this in a judgmental or snarky way- I certainly don't know all there is to know either, but I've learned *a lot* in my 5 year weight loss journey.) The weight you "gained" in 2 days was not body fat, it was water retention likely due to the effects of the higher sodium, carbs, & just generally greater food volume in your system. If you have been reaching conclusions based on very normal fluctuations like this, those conclusions may not be reliable. (Another example is, suddenly eating an increased amount of carbs after a period of relative restriction will result in a sudden spike of water weight... again, not fat.) Also, I don't see where you've mentioned your height anywhere, but it sounds possible that you could be at a fairly normal weight, or have less than 25 lbs to lose, in which case measurable weight loss can be very difficult to achieve and require a very high level of precision & consistency (just not much room for error). I have recently recommitted to extremely precise logging in grams, honestly beyond what seemed necessary to me, and find my weight finally going back down after about a year at maintenance. During that time, I was also pretty convinced my body must be different, or that there must be some specific health or dietary issue preventing me from losing weight, etc. Just sayin' :)

    I genuinely hope you get things worked out with your diet & weight loss to your satisfaction. :)
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    My grandfather and his three siblings all lived into their late eighties, early nineties. One was diagnosed with cancer in her eighties the others were cancer and diabetes free. All of them drank alcohol daily, salted anything that came near their plate, ate lots of pasta and buttered bread and meatballs and a fair amount of desserts and snack foods, and were slightly overweight but never obese.

    After doing a ton of my own research, I'm a firm believer that longevity with decent health comes from genetics, being active, eating a balanced and varied diet, maintaining a reasonably healthy weight, and enjoying the people around you. I just don't see any consistent evidence that eating/drinking specific foods greatly affects your chances - whether we are talking about meat or grains or processed food or alcohol or superfoods or whatever. Your body needs the right amount of fuel, basic nutrition, and to keep moving. Outside of that you can find people who are either blessed with a long, healthy life or developing chronic conditions that cause them to die young eating just about any way you can think of.

    I agree with this with one important caveat. Smoking.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    My grandfather and his three siblings all lived into their late eighties, early nineties. One was diagnosed with cancer in her eighties the others were cancer and diabetes free. All of them drank alcohol daily, salted anything that came near their plate, ate lots of pasta and buttered bread and meatballs and a fair amount of desserts and snack foods, and were slightly overweight but never obese.

    After doing a ton of my own research, I'm a firm believer that longevity with decent health comes from genetics, being active, eating a balanced and varied diet, maintaining a reasonably healthy weight, and enjoying the people around you. I just don't see any consistent evidence that eating/drinking specific foods greatly affects your chances - whether we are talking about meat or grains or processed food or alcohol or superfoods or whatever. Your body needs the right amount of fuel, basic nutrition, and to keep moving. Outside of that you can find people who are either blessed with a long, healthy life or developing chronic conditions that cause them to die young eating just about any way you can think of.

    I agree with this with one important caveat. Smoking.

    Fair point. Yes ITA!
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,078 Member
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    Wow, I pop out for a while and........never mind, have got some very useful replies here, but think I've been convinced that plant based/vegan isn't the way forward for me?

    etraynumcameron, I'd love to get my RMR tested but I'm in a foreign country where I don't live near a city or speak the language well so it's doubtful I could. I have very little lean muscle, I use body composition scales and while I know they're not 100% accurate they help me keep an eye on progress. Even without those it's clear to see that I'm carrying a huge amount of body fat for my size - over 30% without a doubt. I'm 5 foot 4 and a very small build with tiny bones so my current weight/size might not sound too much to some but I need to lose the fat as it's not healthy.

    Try2again, I'm looking to lose around 27 lbs in total from this point on. I realise of course that a gain of 1.5 lbs isn't a gain in fat over the course of 2-3 days, and also that body weight fluctuates all the time, but my frustration is that since January this year when I was 35% body fat and 151lbs to now at 33-34% body fat and 145.5lbs there has been very little change and barely any progress has been made. 151lbs is the heaviest I've been in about 12 years. I got there from my previous lighter weight of 126 lbs at the end of 2015 just by eating normally (not huge portions, rarely eating desserts and drinking once a week or less). I also exercised less, maybe 2-3 times a week.

    In that timeframe since I started trying to lose the gained weight, I've exercised 5 or 6 days a week, except for 2 months when I had a back injury and could only walk instead of using the gym, and have been pretty careful with my food choices/calorie intake.

  • dopeysmelly
    dopeysmelly Posts: 1,390 Member
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    I switched to plant-based about 2.5 years ago. Did it because my cholesterol was getting high enough that my doc wanted to prescribe statins and I didn't want to go that way. I just tried cutting stuff out for a month and found it actually really easy. My cholesterol went down lower than "normal" within 3-4 weeks. DH then switched and his blood pressure went down as well (it had always been a bit high). I haven't lost weight on it, and I'm not completely rigid, but I do feel much better healthwise and in myself than I did before. I've found that my tastes have changed and I genuinely dislike the texture of meat or dairy. Ultimately what happens is that you crowd out the meat etc, with lots of fruit and veggies and grains and beans/legumes. I have tofu and tempeh but not every day and I have no problem with getting plenty of protein. My weight has been stable with no effort (although honestly, I really want to lose a few more pounds).

    The reason why I went this way was because I read a study which measured cholesterol for a group of volunteers before and after switching to plant-based and then again a few months later. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it, I'm afraid, but I just thought I'd give it a go for a few weeks and see what happened.

    I'm wary of some of the "packaging" of these documentaries, and they seem to paint people not willing to be "pure" as somehow less worthy. Dr Greger I find to be less on the shrill side than most and his book is very insightful. The China study to me is just a whole lot more interesting to read, but the message is the same.

    In the Blue Zones, it's worth noting that, yes, quite a few of them do eat meat and fish etc, but as an occasion treat, like a birthday or religious festival, not daily and not in the quantities we eat today in many countries.
  • OliveGirl128
    OliveGirl128 Posts: 801 Member
    edited July 2017
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    dopeysmelly wrote: »
    I switched to plant-based about 2.5 years ago. Did it because my cholesterol was getting high enough that my doc wanted to prescribe statins and I didn't want to go that way. I just tried cutting stuff out for a month and found it actually really easy. My cholesterol went down lower than "normal" within 3-4 weeks. DH then switched and his blood pressure went down as well (it had always been a bit high). I haven't lost weight on it, and I'm not completely rigid, but I do feel much better healthwise and in myself than I did before. I've found that my tastes have changed and I genuinely dislike the texture of meat or dairy. Ultimately what happens is that you crowd out the meat etc, with lots of fruit and veggies and grains and beans/legumes. I have tofu and tempeh but not every day and I have no problem with getting plenty of protein. My weight has been stable with no effort (although honestly, I really want to lose a few more pounds).

    The reason why I went this way was because I read a study which measured cholesterol for a group of volunteers before and after switching to plant-based and then again a few months later. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it, I'm afraid, but I just thought I'd give it a go for a few weeks and see what happened.

    I'm wary of some of the "packaging" of these documentaries, and they seem to paint people not willing to be "pure" as somehow less worthy. Dr Greger I find to be less on the shrill side than most and his book is very insightful. The China study to me is just a whole lot more interesting to read, but the message is the same.

    In the Blue Zones, it's worth noting that, yes, quite a few of them do eat meat and fish etc, but as an occasion treat, like a birthday or religious festival, not daily and not in the quantities we eat today in many countries.

    During my Nutritarian experiment I had blood work done and my cholesterol numbers actually got worse-I was shocked, to say the least! I'm now off of the plan due to that reason, as well as a few others, and I'm curious to see what my next blood work panel will show. Because of my medical history I get a full panel drawn twice a year, so I'll have it done again in October.
  • dopeysmelly
    dopeysmelly Posts: 1,390 Member
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    OliveGirl128 wrote: »
    dopeysmelly wrote: »
    I switched to plant-based about 2.5 years ago. Did it because my cholesterol was getting high enough that my doc wanted to prescribe statins and I didn't want to go that way. I just tried cutting stuff out for a month and found it actually really easy. My cholesterol went down lower than "normal" within 3-4 weeks. DH then switched and his blood pressure went down as well (it had always been a bit high). I haven't lost weight on it, and I'm not completely rigid, but I do feel much better healthwise and in myself than I did before. I've found that my tastes have changed and I genuinely dislike the texture of meat or dairy. Ultimately what happens is that you crowd out the meat etc, with lots of fruit and veggies and grains and beans/legumes. I have tofu and tempeh but not every day and I have no problem with getting plenty of protein. My weight has been stable with no effort (although honestly, I really want to lose a few more pounds).

    The reason why I went this way was because I read a study which measured cholesterol for a group of volunteers before and after switching to plant-based and then again a few months later. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it, I'm afraid, but I just thought I'd give it a go for a few weeks and see what happened.

    I'm wary of some of the "packaging" of these documentaries, and they seem to paint people not willing to be "pure" as somehow less worthy. Dr Greger I find to be less on the shrill side than most and his book is very insightful. The China study to me is just a whole lot more interesting to read, but the message is the same.

    In the Blue Zones, it's worth noting that, yes, quite a few of them do eat meat and fish etc, but as an occasion treat, like a birthday or religious festival, not daily and not in the quantities we eat today in many countries.

    During my Nutritarian experiment I had blood work done and my cholesterol numbers actually got worse-I was shocked, to say the least! I'm now off of the plan due to that reason, as well as a few others, and I'm curious to see what my next blood work panel will show. Because of my medical history I get a full panel drawn twice a year, so I'll have it done again in October.

    There is only one way of knowing how changing your diet is going to affect something like blood cholesterol and that's to give it a go for a few weeks and see how your body responds. I'm all for experimenting until you find what works!
  • OliveGirl128
    OliveGirl128 Posts: 801 Member
    edited July 2017
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    dopeysmelly wrote: »
    OliveGirl128 wrote: »
    dopeysmelly wrote: »
    I switched to plant-based about 2.5 years ago. Did it because my cholesterol was getting high enough that my doc wanted to prescribe statins and I didn't want to go that way. I just tried cutting stuff out for a month and found it actually really easy. My cholesterol went down lower than "normal" within 3-4 weeks. DH then switched and his blood pressure went down as well (it had always been a bit high). I haven't lost weight on it, and I'm not completely rigid, but I do feel much better healthwise and in myself than I did before. I've found that my tastes have changed and I genuinely dislike the texture of meat or dairy. Ultimately what happens is that you crowd out the meat etc, with lots of fruit and veggies and grains and beans/legumes. I have tofu and tempeh but not every day and I have no problem with getting plenty of protein. My weight has been stable with no effort (although honestly, I really want to lose a few more pounds).

    The reason why I went this way was because I read a study which measured cholesterol for a group of volunteers before and after switching to plant-based and then again a few months later. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it, I'm afraid, but I just thought I'd give it a go for a few weeks and see what happened.

    I'm wary of some of the "packaging" of these documentaries, and they seem to paint people not willing to be "pure" as somehow less worthy. Dr Greger I find to be less on the shrill side than most and his book is very insightful. The China study to me is just a whole lot more interesting to read, but the message is the same.

    In the Blue Zones, it's worth noting that, yes, quite a few of them do eat meat and fish etc, but as an occasion treat, like a birthday or religious festival, not daily and not in the quantities we eat today in many countries.

    During my Nutritarian experiment I had blood work done and my cholesterol numbers actually got worse-I was shocked, to say the least! I'm now off of the plan due to that reason, as well as a few others, and I'm curious to see what my next blood work panel will show. Because of my medical history I get a full panel drawn twice a year, so I'll have it done again in October.

    There is only one way of knowing how changing your diet is going to affect something like blood cholesterol and that's to give it a go for a few weeks and see how your body responds. I'm all for experimenting until you find what works!

    When I got my results back I was like WTH?! lol :p My other numbers stayed almost exactly the same, but for some reason the cholesterol numbers took a hit. It could have been a fluke, but I had such high expectations for my results that it really messed with my head and I lost enthusiasm for the plan. I have 5ish years of blood work data and this past one was the first time where something went the wrong direction-so curious to see how the next one goes! Since then I've switched gears a bit and now follow the DASH diet-still heavily plant based, but it includes dairy and then small amounts of fish/meat daily.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,897 Member
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    JAT74 wrote: »
    Maxematics, I do use a food scale to weigh my food and therefore know how much I'm eating.

    OliveGirl128 that's really interesting, I haven't read the other threads but will have a look. I'll also look into the other diet you've recommended, though I keep an eye on my food groups already via mfp so think my diet is pretty fairly balanced. The reason I stick to approx 900 calories most days is I start gaining if I eat over 1000 on a daily basis. I've discovered this is due to trial and error, so if I have any chance of losing weight I have to aim for under 1000. I've been to see doctors about this but they've not been able to find a medical reason why this is the case for me. My mum has exactly the same issue and always has done.

    It's funny you mention Blue Zones, I wasn't aware of that term, but I was looking at this exact topic yesterday to try and work out what the longest living/healthiest nations eat primarily! In my experience of people who've suffered health issues which have lead them to have to change their diets, I know people who have had to cut out fat (due to problems with gall bladder) and eat mainly plain food without added sauces or fats. They mainly ate grains and lean meat/fish but lost loads of weight by doing so. They were able to eat fruit and vegetables too, but maybe the lack of fat in the diet lead to the extreme weight loss or perhaps it was the inability to eat a lot of those types of foods. On the SCD diet which doesn't allow grains, starchy carbs or dairy except special yoghurt both myself and my partner lost a lot of weight. We were eating plenty and didn't watch our fat intake (though we only ate olive oil and coconut oil).

    The mediterranean diet is very healthy anyway, though I find a lot of bread is eaten in addition to a lot of cheese and high fat desserts. Portion sizes are also quite large and alcohol is consumed daily by most people in Spain. They do seem to consume more protein and fruit/vegetables/eggs/cheese than carbs though, so maybe that's why obesity isn't a very big problem yet and they tend to eat a fairly balanced diet.

    How tall are you? Unless you are a Little Person, if you are gaining on 1,000 calories, you're not actually eating 1,000 calories.

    There are mistakes that people commonly make that cause them to not lose weight that we might be able to spot if you change your Diary Sharing settings to Public: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings

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