Culking Bishes!!! Winter2016 / Spring 2017
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@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?0 -
^ BTW, those are awesome results for the both of you.
Interestingly enough, I officially gave up calorie counting. I tried a new round and it's just too mentally exhausting. Right now I am working on food manipulation and training hard as kitten to see how I respond; ironically, I am down 2 lbs. Largely, I focus more on whole foods and limit treats.1 -
piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.1 -
^ BTW, those are awesome results for the both of you.
Interestingly enough, I officially gave up calorie counting. I tried a new round and it's just too mentally exhausting. Right now I am working on food manipulation and training hard as kitten to see how I respond; ironically, I am down 2 lbs. Largely, I focus more on whole foods and limit treats.
I focus on whole foods and track, even when bulking. I'm just too data obsessed to not track everything (I have a weird hyperfocused form if ADHD), and I've noticed that my bulks go better, I perform better, and feel better when it's mostly a whole food diet.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
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piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
Keep in mind though, my numbers are for Cat 1 dieters (people at or below 15% bf when starting the cut). The numbers are all lower and the protocol changes for higher bodyfat levels.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
Keep in mind though, my numbers are for Cat 1 dieters (people at or below 15% bf when starting the cut). The numbers are all lower and the protocol changes for higher bodyfat levels.
I was more curious than anything else. Probably not a protocol I'd run but it is interesting reading about difference strategies.
0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
Keep in mind though, my numbers are for Cat 1 dieters (people at or below 15% bf when starting the cut). The numbers are all lower and the protocol changes for higher bodyfat levels.
I was more curious than anything else. Probably not a protocol I'd run but it is interesting reading about difference strategies.
Understandable. It's definitely not something that's for everyone (or even many), but I wanted to throw that out there. For anyone who does consider it, my default advice is always "read the book twice before committing yourself to it". It's definitely easy to screw yourself and end up feeling like *kitten* if you screw it up.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
Keep in mind though, my numbers are for Cat 1 dieters (people at or below 15% bf when starting the cut). The numbers are all lower and the protocol changes for higher bodyfat levels.
I was more curious than anything else. Probably not a protocol I'd run but it is interesting reading about difference strategies.
Understandable. It's definitely not something that's for everyone (or even many), but I wanted to throw that out there. For anyone who does consider it, my default advice is always "read the book twice before committing yourself to it". It's definitely easy to screw yourself and end up feeling like *kitten* if you screw it up.
I can see that. I think I had to read Wendler's 531 book (the first, don't have Beyond), 2-3 times before it made sense.
0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
Keep in mind though, my numbers are for Cat 1 dieters (people at or below 15% bf when starting the cut). The numbers are all lower and the protocol changes for higher bodyfat levels.
I was more curious than anything else. Probably not a protocol I'd run but it is interesting reading about difference strategies.
Understandable. It's definitely not something that's for everyone (or even many), but I wanted to throw that out there. For anyone who does consider it, my default advice is always "read the book twice before committing yourself to it". It's definitely easy to screw yourself and end up feeling like *kitten* if you screw it up.
I can see that. I think I had to read Wendler's 531 book (the first, don't have Beyond), 2-3 times before it made sense.
His newest book 5/3/1 Forever includes everything from both of those, plus a buttload of updates and new templates that he's been running on the guys that he trains. No fluff, no pictures, all information and programs. He's definitely stepped his game up.
I'm actually going to be running his Coffinworm template starting this Sunday, as I ease back into maintenance and a very modest surplus over the next bit.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »^ BTW, those are awesome results for the both of you.
Interestingly enough, I officially gave up calorie counting. I tried a new round and it's just too mentally exhausting. Right now I am working on food manipulation and training hard as kitten to see how I respond; ironically, I am down 2 lbs. Largely, I focus more on whole foods and limit treats.
I focus on whole foods and track, even when bulking. I'm just too data obsessed to not track everything (I have a weird hyperfocused form if ADHD), and I've noticed that my bulks go better, I perform better, and feel better when it's mostly a whole food diet.
Ironically, i am very data driven. I love creating excel templates and all that fun jazz, but after 7 years, i just cant do calorie counting any more. I actually find myself eating even if i am not hungry because i have calories.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »^ BTW, those are awesome results for the both of you.
Interestingly enough, I officially gave up calorie counting. I tried a new round and it's just too mentally exhausting. Right now I am working on food manipulation and training hard as kitten to see how I respond; ironically, I am down 2 lbs. Largely, I focus more on whole foods and limit treats.
I focus on whole foods and track, even when bulking. I'm just too data obsessed to not track everything (I have a weird hyperfocused form if ADHD), and I've noticed that my bulks go better, I perform better, and feel better when it's mostly a whole food diet.
Ironically, i am very data driven. I love creating excel templates and all that fun jazz, but after 7 years, i just cant do calorie counting any more. I actually find myself eating even if i am not hungry because i have calories.
As do I, but since my body has finally gotten its hunger signaling in order for the first time in my life (being obese by age ten kinda screwed it up a bit), if I didn't, I'd not gain a damned thing. Great for most people. Not so good for an aspiring powerlifter who weighs 163 at 5'10".0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
Keep in mind though, my numbers are for Cat 1 dieters (people at or below 15% bf when starting the cut). The numbers are all lower and the protocol changes for higher bodyfat levels.
I was more curious than anything else. Probably not a protocol I'd run but it is interesting reading about difference strategies.
Understandable. It's definitely not something that's for everyone (or even many), but I wanted to throw that out there. For anyone who does consider it, my default advice is always "read the book twice before committing yourself to it". It's definitely easy to screw yourself and end up feeling like *kitten* if you screw it up.
I can see that. I think I had to read Wendler's 531 book (the first, don't have Beyond), 2-3 times before it made sense.
His newest book 5/3/1 Forever includes everything from both of those, plus a buttload of updates and new templates that he's been running on the guys that he trains. No fluff, no pictures, all information and programs. He's definitely stepped his game up.
I'm actually going to be running his Coffinworm template starting this Sunday, as I ease back into maintenance and a very modest surplus over the next bit.
Hmmm, I didn't know he had a new book. Tells how much I've been paying attention..lol
0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »@Gallowmere1984
Is that 2gr per lb of the top bulk weight, 2gr per lb goal weight or 2gr per lb LBM?
LBM. Everything about all of Lyle's diets is based on LBM. Essentially, we don't bother with counting fat, because ideally, we want it gone. Well, as much as is reasonably possible, without wrecking hormones anyway.
Thanks.
Keep in mind though, my numbers are for Cat 1 dieters (people at or below 15% bf when starting the cut). The numbers are all lower and the protocol changes for higher bodyfat levels.
I was more curious than anything else. Probably not a protocol I'd run but it is interesting reading about difference strategies.
Understandable. It's definitely not something that's for everyone (or even many), but I wanted to throw that out there. For anyone who does consider it, my default advice is always "read the book twice before committing yourself to it". It's definitely easy to screw yourself and end up feeling like *kitten* if you screw it up.
I can see that. I think I had to read Wendler's 531 book (the first, don't have Beyond), 2-3 times before it made sense.
His newest book 5/3/1 Forever includes everything from both of those, plus a buttload of updates and new templates that he's been running on the guys that he trains. No fluff, no pictures, all information and programs. He's definitely stepped his game up.
I'm actually going to be running his Coffinworm template starting this Sunday, as I ease back into maintenance and a very modest surplus over the next bit.
Hmmm, I didn't know he had a new book. Tells how much I've been paying attention..lol
It just came out a few months ago. I preordered it, but I am pretty sure it's still only available as hard copy. He said when it was released that it would be several months before he even cared to start working on the ebook format.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Looking great @Gallowmere1984
Wow it took me over 12 weeks to lose half of what you did
. I am really dragging this cut out. I only have a few lbs left to go (I hope), and although I am only 5lbs up from my bulk start weight, the difference in my body (especially the booty) is absolutely amazing. Yay for bulking!!
That's not that bad of a duration, I just prefer going all in on anything. As Lemon has noted, I have an absolutely insane approach to cutting. I've already been through a cut, another bulk, and another cut cycle while most people who hit around the same time are still cutting the first round. Been around 5 months iirc, of which, I spent three months bulking, one month cutting and one month maintenance chasing.
Do you follow the PSMF, UD 2.0 or another protocol?
BTW, i was given permission to be able to discuss these in this section only, but we aren't recommend it. Only discuss what we do. So progress, lol.
Something else I just remembered: did you ever get a verdict on discussion involving EC? Kinda feel like I'm only being half honest if I leave out the supplemental side of the protocol.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Looking great @Gallowmere1984
Wow it took me over 12 weeks to lose half of what you did . I am really dragging this cut out. I only have a few lbs left to go (I hope), and although I am only 5lbs up from my bulk start weight, the difference in my body (especially the booty) is absolutely amazing. Yay for bulking!!
That's not that bad of a duration, I just prefer going all in on anything. As Lemon has noted, I have an absolutely insane approach to cutting. I've already been through a cut, another bulk, and another cut cycle while most people who hit around the same time are still cutting the first round. Been around 5 months iirc, of which, I spent three months bulking, one month cutting and one month maintenance chasing.
Do you follow the PSMF, UD 2.0 or another protocol?
BTW, i was given permission to be able to discuss these in this section only, but we aren't recommend it. Only discuss what we do. So progress, lol.
Something else I just remembered: did you ever get a verdict on discussion involving EC? Kinda feel like I'm only being half honest if I leave out the supplemental side of the protocol.
It should be treated the same as the Lyle's programs. So keep the discussion within the bodybuilding section and no recommendations.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Looking great @Gallowmere1984
Wow it took me over 12 weeks to lose half of what you did . I am really dragging this cut out. I only have a few lbs left to go (I hope), and although I am only 5lbs up from my bulk start weight, the difference in my body (especially the booty) is absolutely amazing. Yay for bulking!!
That's not that bad of a duration, I just prefer going all in on anything. As Lemon has noted, I have an absolutely insane approach to cutting. I've already been through a cut, another bulk, and another cut cycle while most people who hit around the same time are still cutting the first round. Been around 5 months iirc, of which, I spent three months bulking, one month cutting and one month maintenance chasing.
Do you follow the PSMF, UD 2.0 or another protocol?
BTW, i was given permission to be able to discuss these in this section only, but we aren't recommend it. Only discuss what we do. So progress, lol.
Something else I just remembered: did you ever get a verdict on discussion involving EC? Kinda feel like I'm only being half honest if I leave out the supplemental side of the protocol.
It should be treated the same as the Lyle's programs. So keep the discussion within the bodybuilding section and no recommendations.
Fantastic, thanks.
So, to add to my previous diet protocol posts, I run an EC stack of 25mg eph/200mg caffeine 4x/day. The ephedrine is HCL from Primatene or sulphate from Bronkaid, depending upon which is in stock.
In order to keep the hangry monsters at bay, I space everything out in two hour intervals. So essentially, EC upon waking, ~65g protein from chicken boob or tuna two hours later, rotating in this fashion until my last EC dose four hours before bed (avoids sleep screwiness), then protein two hours before bed.
Also included are a full multivitamin, an extra 600mg calcium, 500mg magnesium, 50mg zinc, and 5000/7500mg sodium/potassium from lite salt.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Looking great @Gallowmere1984
Wow it took me over 12 weeks to lose half of what you did . I am really dragging this cut out. I only have a few lbs left to go (I hope), and although I am only 5lbs up from my bulk start weight, the difference in my body (especially the booty) is absolutely amazing. Yay for bulking!!
That's not that bad of a duration, I just prefer going all in on anything. As Lemon has noted, I have an absolutely insane approach to cutting. I've already been through a cut, another bulk, and another cut cycle while most people who hit around the same time are still cutting the first round. Been around 5 months iirc, of which, I spent three months bulking, one month cutting and one month maintenance chasing.
Do you follow the PSMF, UD 2.0 or another protocol?
BTW, i was given permission to be able to discuss these in this section only, but we aren't recommend it. Only discuss what we do. So progress, lol.
Something else I just remembered: did you ever get a verdict on discussion involving EC? Kinda feel like I'm only being half honest if I leave out the supplemental side of the protocol.
It should be treated the same as the Lyle's programs. So keep the discussion within the bodybuilding section and no recommendations.
Fantastic, thanks.
So, to add to my previous diet protocol posts, I run an EC stack of 25mg eph/200mg caffeine 4x/day. The ephedrine is HCL from Primatene or sulphate from Bronkaid, depending upon which is in stock.
In order to keep the hangry monsters at bay, I space everything out in two hour intervals. So essentially, EC upon waking, ~65g protein from chicken boob or tuna two hours later, rotating in this fashion until my last EC dose four hours before bed (avoids sleep screwiness), then protein two hours before bed.
Also included are a full multivitamin, an extra 600mg calcium, 500mg magnesium, 50mg zinc, and 5000/7500mg sodium/potassium from lite salt.
Disclaimer I am not advocating or recommending this at all. There are serious risks involved and you should speak with a MD before running out and trying this protocol. For some people it can be deadly.
That being said, I run an ECA stack myself during a cut. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.
I DID clear it with one of my MD's. While they were not familiar with the why, they understood the drugs because this is very similar to old school asthma meds, the kind I took when younger. They agreed to look into it for me (couple years ago) and got back with me after a few weeks. While the Dr was not advocating it, they did ask me to following the ramp up procedure to assess my tolerance, and if I could tolerate it to take it slow. Guess the old body recognized the similarity to other asthma meds I used to take and I didn't have any issues. It does raise my blood pressure a few points, from normally 118/72 to around 124/76. BP drops back down within 8hrs of the last dose.
Mine is 3x/day, 4 hours apart, 6am first, 10am second, last dose at 2pm. Only 2 baby aspirin per dose.
0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Looking great @Gallowmere1984
Wow it took me over 12 weeks to lose half of what you did . I am really dragging this cut out. I only have a few lbs left to go (I hope), and although I am only 5lbs up from my bulk start weight, the difference in my body (especially the booty) is absolutely amazing. Yay for bulking!!
That's not that bad of a duration, I just prefer going all in on anything. As Lemon has noted, I have an absolutely insane approach to cutting. I've already been through a cut, another bulk, and another cut cycle while most people who hit around the same time are still cutting the first round. Been around 5 months iirc, of which, I spent three months bulking, one month cutting and one month maintenance chasing.
Do you follow the PSMF, UD 2.0 or another protocol?
BTW, i was given permission to be able to discuss these in this section only, but we aren't recommend it. Only discuss what we do. So progress, lol.
Something else I just remembered: did you ever get a verdict on discussion involving EC? Kinda feel like I'm only being half honest if I leave out the supplemental side of the protocol.
It should be treated the same as the Lyle's programs. So keep the discussion within the bodybuilding section and no recommendations.
Fantastic, thanks.
So, to add to my previous diet protocol posts, I run an EC stack of 25mg eph/200mg caffeine 4x/day. The ephedrine is HCL from Primatene or sulphate from Bronkaid, depending upon which is in stock.
In order to keep the hangry monsters at bay, I space everything out in two hour intervals. So essentially, EC upon waking, ~65g protein from chicken boob or tuna two hours later, rotating in this fashion until my last EC dose four hours before bed (avoids sleep screwiness), then protein two hours before bed.
Also included are a full multivitamin, an extra 600mg calcium, 500mg magnesium, 50mg zinc, and 5000/7500mg sodium/potassium from lite salt.
Disclaimer I am not advocating or recommending this at all. There are serious risks involved and you should speak with a MD before running out and trying this protocol. For some people it can be deadly.
That being said, I run an ECA stack myself during a cut. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.
I DID clear it with one of my MD's. While they were not familiar with the why, they understood the drugs because this is very similar to old school asthma meds, the kind I took when younger. They agreed to look into it for me (couple years ago) and got back with me after a few weeks. While the Dr was not advocating it, they did ask me to following the ramp up procedure to assess my tolerance, and if I could tolerate it to take it slow. Guess the old body recognized the similarity to other asthma meds I used to take and I didn't have any issues. It does raise my blood pressure a few points, from normally 118/72 to around 124/76. BP drops back down within 8hrs of the last dose.
Mine is 3x/day, 4 hours apart, 6am first, 10am second, last dose at 2pm. Only 2 baby aspirin per dose.
Up to you, but literally everything that I have seen shows that the aspirin does precisely nothing for anyone but the morbidly obese. Well, I guess it does add extra liver work, but I never really saw the benefit in that.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Looking great @Gallowmere1984
Wow it took me over 12 weeks to lose half of what you did . I am really dragging this cut out. I only have a few lbs left to go (I hope), and although I am only 5lbs up from my bulk start weight, the difference in my body (especially the booty) is absolutely amazing. Yay for bulking!!
That's not that bad of a duration, I just prefer going all in on anything. As Lemon has noted, I have an absolutely insane approach to cutting. I've already been through a cut, another bulk, and another cut cycle while most people who hit around the same time are still cutting the first round. Been around 5 months iirc, of which, I spent three months bulking, one month cutting and one month maintenance chasing.
Do you follow the PSMF, UD 2.0 or another protocol?
BTW, i was given permission to be able to discuss these in this section only, but we aren't recommend it. Only discuss what we do. So progress, lol.
Something else I just remembered: did you ever get a verdict on discussion involving EC? Kinda feel like I'm only being half honest if I leave out the supplemental side of the protocol.
It should be treated the same as the Lyle's programs. So keep the discussion within the bodybuilding section and no recommendations.
Fantastic, thanks.
So, to add to my previous diet protocol posts, I run an EC stack of 25mg eph/200mg caffeine 4x/day. The ephedrine is HCL from Primatene or sulphate from Bronkaid, depending upon which is in stock.
In order to keep the hangry monsters at bay, I space everything out in two hour intervals. So essentially, EC upon waking, ~65g protein from chicken boob or tuna two hours later, rotating in this fashion until my last EC dose four hours before bed (avoids sleep screwiness), then protein two hours before bed.
Also included are a full multivitamin, an extra 600mg calcium, 500mg magnesium, 50mg zinc, and 5000/7500mg sodium/potassium from lite salt.
Disclaimer I am not advocating or recommending this at all. There are serious risks involved and you should speak with a MD before running out and trying this protocol. For some people it can be deadly.
That being said, I run an ECA stack myself during a cut. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.
I DID clear it with one of my MD's. While they were not familiar with the why, they understood the drugs because this is very similar to old school asthma meds, the kind I took when younger. They agreed to look into it for me (couple years ago) and got back with me after a few weeks. While the Dr was not advocating it, they did ask me to following the ramp up procedure to assess my tolerance, and if I could tolerate it to take it slow. Guess the old body recognized the similarity to other asthma meds I used to take and I didn't have any issues. It does raise my blood pressure a few points, from normally 118/72 to around 124/76. BP drops back down within 8hrs of the last dose.
Mine is 3x/day, 4 hours apart, 6am first, 10am second, last dose at 2pm. Only 2 baby aspirin per dose.
Up to you, but literally everything that I have seen shows that the aspirin does precisely nothing for anyone but the morbidly obese. Well, I guess it does add extra liver work, but I never really saw the benefit in that.
Haven't looked at any studies for a while. I do recall the ones I read as "the jury is undecided". Guess I'll have to look again.
Year round I take 1 baby aspirin per a different Drs recommendation.
0
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