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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
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Yes, with what they call HIIT, C25K would qualify as HIIT. It's silly to call anything that's interval training HIIT. Why not just call it interval training?7
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Yes, with what they call HIIT, C25K would qualify as HIIT. It's silly to call anything that's interval training HIIT. Why not just call it interval training?
'Cos HIIT is what the cool kids do!
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Yes, with what they call HIIT, C25K would qualify as HIIT. It's silly to call anything that's interval training HIIT. Why not just call it interval training?
'Cos HIIT is what the cool kids do!
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prolly not 'unpopular' exactly, but it seems to be a minority view: i get annoyed every time some poor innocent says the word 'tone' and people rudely and gleefully unfurl the no such thing as tone! banner and jump down their throats.
it seems unnecessarily mean-spirited and pedantic to me. if visual 'toning' really didn't exist then there wouldn't be all this 'forget what the scale says - are your pants two sizes looser than they used to be?' and if physical tonus doesn't exist then every massage therapist and physio who's ever poked me to assess mine was just making stuff up.24 -
Got to agree with you @canadianlbs.
To me 'toned' is when one uses their muscles enough that they are firm to the touch and, if body fat is low enough, visible.
This is not the 'pumped' look of just after a lifting session, where the muscles are engorged, but the daily look of muscles that are used.
This is also not the 'flat' flaccid, soft, look and feel of muscles that are not engaged in any regular stress, exercise or daily living/work.
I think the pushback is because of all the 'toned in 10' articles in magazines.
Ie: it has taken 3 weeks for my muscles to go quite 'flat' as I am taking a break. Usually, though not very visible, my muscles, when lifting regularly, have a solid feel- to me that is they have 'tone', or are 'toned'. I don't know another word for that day to day state as it is different than pumped post workout and unused flat/flaccid.
Cheers, h.20 -
canadianlbs wrote: »prolly not 'unpopular' exactly, but it seems to be a minority view: i get annoyed every time some poor innocent says the word 'tone' and people rudely and gleefully unfurl the no such thing as tone! banner and jump down their throats.
it seems unnecessarily mean-spirited and pedantic to me. if visual 'toning' really didn't exist then there wouldn't be all this 'forget what the scale says - are your pants two sizes looser than they used to be?' and if physical tonus doesn't exist then every massage therapist and physio who's ever poked me to assess mine was just making stuff up.
please show me a post where people have "gleefully" jumped down someone's throat for using the word "tone"
Tone as used in the fitness industry is a catch phrase that really has no real meaning except for what they want it to...
and it's overused "tone up in 10 days", "get toned with these simple exercises"...etc.
and if that word actually meant what they want it to....then the magazines would be full of crap and selling something akin to plastic wrap making you lose weight...just doesn't work that way.7 -
@canadianlbs had a point. All the "serious" lifters do make a point to show just how much srsbznz lifting is and how much cred they have whenever the word tone comes up.
Well, some of them.
Some of them are gracious and explain it all nicely and realize that there's a difference between the person misusing the term and the people who market the term.
I'm with the previous posters. I know what people who say they want to tone up mean.
My mother used to say that it wasn't kind to correct people if you knew what they meant if you were doing it in a jerky way. So I've never piled on that particular turn of phrase.
I think that's pretty good advice to remember.26 -
canadianlbs wrote: »prolly not 'unpopular' exactly, but it seems to be a minority view: i get annoyed every time some poor innocent says the word 'tone' and people rudely and gleefully unfurl the no such thing as tone! banner and jump down their throats.
it seems unnecessarily mean-spirited and pedantic to me. if visual 'toning' really didn't exist then there wouldn't be all this 'forget what the scale says - are your pants two sizes looser than they used to be?' and if physical tonus doesn't exist then every massage therapist and physio who's ever poked me to assess mine was just making stuff up.
I agree with your main point, about the (kinda snotty) replies that sometimes happen when some innocent person, new to fitness but willing - even eager - to learn, mentions "toning". It's as if some folks are more eager to prove how cool & insider-y they are, than to help the new person along. (Analogous thing happens on some other hot-button topics, too)
(I'm sure I'm guilty of this myself, sometimes, too - I try to act decently, but I'm fundamentally not a particularly nice person. ).
But I'm really in just to say this:
My current, very good, well-educated/trained massage therapist is also a very science-y, no-woo guy. He firmly contends that many of the things many massage therapists say they can feel, are not actually feelable at all. He insists he cannot feel them. He's talking not just about nebulous "energy fields" or auras, but about physical phenomena like felt "tightness", " knots", etc. But he can, I assure you, capably do All The Thingz.
He says he can assess from range of motion and other observable phenomena, and use his knowledge of anatomy/physiology to locate & treat problem areas, and that with long experience some of that has become almost subconscious and intuitive.
I don't totally believe him ( ) about his "I can't feel anything", but found his view very interesting.
Edited: typo8 -
I've never jumped down anyone's throat to tell them that toning doesn't exist. I have, however, explained the misconception that is so prevalent when it comes to toning.
There's a lot of people who think that their soft arms are a result of their muscles not being tight enough and that if they just workout, their soft muscles will tighten up and make them look lean and firm.
That's just not how it works though. In order to look more toned, one has to lose fat (which is what actually makes your arm feel soft) or gain enough muscle for it become more visible amidst the fat. Or both.3 -
middlehaitch wrote: »I think the pushback is because of all the 'toned in 10' articles in magazines.
i agree about that. some of my irritation probably comes from me having that frustrating sense that i'm watching people argue with the wrong lamppost.please show me a post where people have "gleefully" jumped down someone's throat for using the word "tone"
tell ya what. i don't happen to have a useful list of them in my back pocket right now, but the next time i see an example of it i'll tag you.Tone as used in the fitness industry is a catch phrase that really has no real meaning except for what they want it to...
kind of 'exactly', actually. it has meaning to any individual person who uses it here. so what i find rude is, when someone seems so anxious to put that person in their place, they're not even interested in trying out to find what the word means to them.and it's overused "tone up in 10 days", "get toned with these simple exercises"...etc.
sure. but again i think people are arguing with the poor messenger and imo it sucks. because they're really having a personal argument that's all their own with some industry or some magazine, but they're going through a real live human to score their know-it-all points.
when i first tried to learn how to lift i didn't know the right words for anything, and if i weren't so stubborn i would have been discouraged from it for good by the knee-jerk putdowns and snubs i got while i was trying to work out how to say what i meant.and if that word actually meant what they want it to....then the magazines would be full of crap and selling something akin to plastic wrap making you lose weight...just doesn't work that way.
who says though that anyone who comes to the fitness and exercise section saying they want to 'tone', they're looking for that kind of b.s. and a quick fix? who says you know what someone else 'wants' it to mean?
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"My current, very good, well-educated/trained massage therapist is also a very science-y, no-woo guy. He firmly contends that many of the things many massage therapists say they can feel, are not actually feelable at all. He insists he cannot feel them. He's talking not just about nebulous "energy fields" or auras, but about physical phenomena like felt "tightness", " knots", etc.
this is interesting. i believe that it's true of him too, if he says it is. but i'd love to invite him to my pvc-pipe sessions sometime, when i'm amusing myself by cross-rolling my glute fibres between my sitz bones and the pipe. i can get them to make this gritch-gritch noise you can hear from ten paces away.
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canadianlbs wrote: »My current, very good, well-educated/trained massage therapist is also a very science-y, no-woo guy. He firmly contends that many of the things many massage therapists say they can feel, are not actually feelable at all. He insists he cannot feel them. He's talking not just about nebulous "energy fields" or auras, but about physical phenomena like felt "tightness", " knots", etc.
this is interesting. i believe that it's true of him too, if he says it is. but i'd love to invite him to my pvc-pipe sessions sometime, when i'm amusing myself by cross-rolling my glute fibres between my sitz bones and the pipe. i can get them to make this gritch-gritch noise you can hear from ten paces away.
I don't think he'd argue that you can't feel things in your own body (well, maybe not the auras & energy fields) - in fact, I know he wouldn't. He asks a lot about what I feel, and does specific "testing" motions to me whike he assks.
And he believes in things that make noises. I predict he'd have an opinion about your "gritch-gritch", some diagnostics, probably some on-the-table interventions, and maybe send you off with some stuff to do yourself at home. He just denies the magic sensitive fingers of other-perception.
Guy's a peach, I swear. 2nd best MT I've ever had (1st best moved out of town
). I shopped a long time to find a new one.
Here's an unpopular (?) opinion: Good bodywork pros - MTs, physical therapists, manipulative osteopaths, etc. - have a technology that's indistinguishable from magic.
Edit:fix quote tags3 -
I don't think he'd argue that you can't feel things in your own body (well, maybe not the auras & energy fields) - in fact, I know he wouldn't.
ah. well, i don't have much time for people who claim to be able to determine what my life was like in third grade by palpating my armpit or elbow either. but i'm intrigued by the idea that he can't tell any difference in objective texture, because tbh i'd defy him not to notice there's parts of me that are like corduroy and other parts that are . . . not. i'd buy the idea that just because something is stringy or lumpy or makes a strange noise when you cross-friction it, that means anything about tenderness or pain, maybe.
i need someone to experiment on now, darn it. i need to go out and accost strangers to see if they're willing to let me hurt them for science reasons.4 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »I've never jumped down anyone's throat to tell them that toning doesn't exist. I have, however, explained the misconception that is so prevalent when it comes to toning.
There's a lot of people who think that their soft arms are a result of their muscles not being tight enough and that if they just workout, their soft muscles will tighten up and make them look lean and firm.
That's just not how it works though. In order to look more toned, one has to lose fat (which is what actually makes your arm feel soft) or gain enough muscle for it become more visible amidst the fat. Or both.
That's, of course, the nice way of explaining it to someone who's read a magazine article. Even though I know the difference, I (remembering my own newbie confusion) appreciate seeing those posts in threads because they're helpful.
There are others that do confuse the message and the messenger and I've seen them.7 -
canadianlbs wrote: »middlehaitch wrote: »I think the pushback is because of all the 'toned in 10' articles in magazines.
i agree about that. some of my irritation probably comes from me having that frustrating sense that i'm watching people argue with the wrong lamppost.please show me a post where people have "gleefully" jumped down someone's throat for using the word "tone"
tell ya what. i don't happen to have a useful list of them in my back pocket right now, but the next time i see an example of it i'll tag you.Tone as used in the fitness industry is a catch phrase that really has no real meaning except for what they want it to...
kind of 'exactly', actually. it has meaning to any individual person who uses it here. so what i find rude is, when someone seems so anxious to put that person in their place, they're not even interested in trying out to find what the word means to them.and it's overused "tone up in 10 days", "get toned with these simple exercises"...etc.
sure. but again i think people are arguing with the poor messenger and imo it sucks. because they're really having a personal argument that's all their own with some industry or some magazine, but they're going through a real live human to score their know-it-all points.
when i first tried to learn how to lift i didn't know the right words for anything, and if i weren't so stubborn i would have been discouraged from it for good by the knee-jerk putdowns and snubs i got while i was trying to work out how to say what i meant.and if that word actually meant what they want it to....then the magazines would be full of crap and selling something akin to plastic wrap making you lose weight...just doesn't work that way.
who says though that anyone who comes to the fitness and exercise section saying they want to 'tone', they're looking for that kind of b.s. and a quick fix? who says you know what someone else 'wants' it to mean?
I didn't say they were looking for a quick fix ...I said the magazine would be selling one if that word meant what they thought it did...
aka tighten up the muscle...
and it's not about what they "want" it to mean it's about what the fitness industry is selling as the meaning....
As well I am not arguing anything..I asked for examples of people jumping down throats...you don't have any...and I fully don't expect to see any...mainly because a lot of time people claim "nastiness" based on "tone" of writing or assumed toned when in fact the post is matter of fact with no Woo in it...and that is seen as "jumping"
anyway tag me all you want in the Mean posts...I would be interested to see them, report them and have the person being nasty taken to task.12 -
canadianlbs wrote: »middlehaitch wrote: »I think the pushback is because of all the 'toned in 10' articles in magazines.
i agree about that. some of my irritation probably comes from me having that frustrating sense that i'm watching people argue with the wrong lamppost.please show me a post where people have "gleefully" jumped down someone's throat for using the word "tone"
tell ya what. i don't happen to have a useful list of them in my back pocket right now, but the next time i see an example of it i'll tag you.Tone as used in the fitness industry is a catch phrase that really has no real meaning except for what they want it to...
kind of 'exactly', actually. it has meaning to any individual person who uses it here. so what i find rude is, when someone seems so anxious to put that person in their place, they're not even interested in trying out to find what the word means to them.and it's overused "tone up in 10 days", "get toned with these simple exercises"...etc.
sure. but again i think people are arguing with the poor messenger and imo it sucks. because they're really having a personal argument that's all their own with some industry or some magazine, but they're going through a real live human to score their know-it-all points.
when i first tried to learn how to lift i didn't know the right words for anything, and if i weren't so stubborn i would have been discouraged from it for good by the knee-jerk putdowns and snubs i got while i was trying to work out how to say what i meant.and if that word actually meant what they want it to....then the magazines would be full of crap and selling something akin to plastic wrap making you lose weight...just doesn't work that way.
who says though that anyone who comes to the fitness and exercise section saying they want to 'tone', they're looking for that kind of b.s. and a quick fix? who says you know what someone else 'wants' it to mean?
I didn't say they were looking for a quick fix ...I said the magazine would be selling one if that word meant what they thought it did...
aka tighten up the muscle...
and it's not about what they "want" it to mean it's about what the fitness industry is selling as the meaning....
As well I am not arguing anything..I asked for examples of people jumping down throats...you don't have any...and I fully don't expect to see any...mainly because a lot of time people claim "nastiness" based on "tone" of writing or assumed toned when in fact the post is matter of fact with no Woo in it...and that is seen as "jumping"
anyway tag me all you want in the Mean posts...I would be interested to see them, report them and have the person being nasty taken to task.
Three thoughts, at least one of which is an opinion (possibly unpopular):- Most of us don't compile a running cross-indexed database of tone in threads, and one can't readily use search tools to find them. Expecting someone to produce one on demand is unrealistic. It's not equivalent to failing to produce cites to support a scientific "fact". Several people have agreed with the opinion in question here, most of them not "frail sensitive flower" types.
- IMO, snarky tone is not necessarily a reportable offence under MFP TOS, even if uncalled for or socially inappropriate. We're adults, not 3rd-graders, so we can do some self-policing rather than dragging in busy mods.
- Tone in writing is a thing, and effective communicators strive to manage it. If one is called out as snarky, dismissive, judgemental, etc., by multiple people on a thread, that person would do better to give some thought to whether they're communicating effectively, rather than hiding behind variations of "didn't mean it that way - you're reading it wrong".
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I'd just like to weigh in to say that I have seen people posting on newbies' threads asking for advice on toning up merely to snarkily say "there's no such thing as toning". Repeatedly. I didn't bookmark the threads or post on them, but I did note it down as a subject I needed to look into later.
I think it was actually @Carlos_421 in this very thread, who explained to me many pages ago the point these snappish people were trying to get across, and why.6 -
My unpopular for the day is that people just like to hear themselves type. They'll argue just to be contrarians.
*tap*tap*tap*tappity*tap20 -
cmriverside wrote: »My unpopular for the day is that people just like to hear themselves type. They'll argue just to be contrarians.
*tap*tap*tap*tappity*tap
This and the passive aggressive humble bragging that runs rampant. "Hey everyone, look how totally wonderful and nonjudgmental I am, why can't you all be just like me?"
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