Ladies - Receiving Unwanted "Attention"
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As the article from Runner's World said, the public sphere is still a "male space" -_-Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
So basically, men are dirtbags, women should just deal with it? Why is it always on the woman to control men's behavior? In schools, girls are told what and what not to wear based on how boys could react. Woman are told because they were dressed a certain way it was an invitation to be sexually assaulted. How about men control their own behavior. We don't need some strange dude to tell us we're beautiful, we already know.
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I was running in San Francisco down by the Embarcadero. One of a group of men commented about me as I was running by. I didn't acknowledge it, but I felt threatened. As someone earlier said, the other men I passed who were running by themselves just nodded a greeting, but this group of men emboldened one of their own to randomly comment on a random passing woman.
I tried to explain it to my husband, how irritating it was that an otherwise very nice run was essentially ruined because of fear. They didn't look scary, and didn't make any physical move towards me. I didn't really think *those* men were going to do anything to me, but it made me more aware that it was a possibility. My husband just could NOT understand why it was threatening at all. He tried to equate it to running where there were dogs and needing to have ways to deal with that situation. That's a semi-fair comparison, I supposed, but not quite.
When women are exercising, or, you know, basically just existing, the fact that many men feel completely comfortable inserting themselves into a woman's life just seems outrageous. I don't have an answer to this, nor really a hope of it changing. That women have to cope with/deal with/try-but-fail to avoid these situations is just wrong.14 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »
Hide some pocket knives or other self-defence devices in your socks or armband.Strong_Savannah wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.
I always feel like this is a bad idea unless you know how to use them. Creep attacks you, you pull knife, creep grabs knife, creep now has knife and you don't... yeah. Not good.
A properly secluded area should be pretty much free of opportunistic creeps - if you barely see a handful of folks on your day's hike then it isn't a place predators will go looking for trouble. Worst is probably semi secluded areas - busy enough for creeps to get a decent hit rate but not so busy that they have witnesses. Still freaks my mom out when I go camping/hiking on my own, but it's my life and I'm not letting what-ifs and creeps prevent me from doing things I enjoy.6 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »
Hide some pocket knives or other self-defence devices in your socks or armband.Strong_Savannah wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.
I'm not worried about defending myself. If that was the case, I'd carry my pistol.9 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
So basically, men are dirtbags, women should just deal with it? Why is it always on the woman to control men's behavior? In schools, girls are told what and what not to wear based on how boys could react. Woman are told because they were dressed a certain way it was an invitation to be sexually assaulted. How about men control their own behavior. We don't need some strange dude to tell us we're beautiful, we already know.
I think what cutaway was trying to get at is you can't stop this type of behavior.
I find it laughable when people say that resting *kitten* face helps. I have the least approachable face of anyone I know. It does not help.
If some *kitten* is going to be a *kitten* he doesn't care what look you have on your face and the really sad/annoying/frightening thing is you can never tell if this is just a harmless (albeit upsetting and frustrating) interaction or this creep actually means you bodily harm.5 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »
Hide some pocket knives or other self-defence devices in your socks or armband.Strong_Savannah wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.
I always feel like this is a bad idea unless you know how to use them. Creep attacks you, you pull knife, creep grabs knife, creep now has knife and you don't... yeah. Not good.
A properly secluded area should be pretty much free of opportunistic creeps - if you barely see a handful of folks on your day's hike then it isn't a place predators will go looking for trouble. Worst is probably semi secluded areas - busy enough for creeps to get a decent hit rate but not so busy that they have witnesses. Still freaks my mom out when I go camping/hiking on my own, but it's my life and I'm not letting what-ifs and creeps prevent me from doing things I enjoy.
I know what to expect in secluded areas, and know when something "doesn't feel right" or hear noises that are out of the ordinary. But, around town, it's more unpredictable.0 -
Yuck. Very scary. I would either carry Mace/pepper spray or I would use a treadmill, myself. You shouldn't have to do that of course, I would just view it as the lesser of the evils in my own case because some of these scumbags are dangerous.1
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.... and have a loud whistle on a chain around your neck, too. If they see the mace in your hand and the whistle they should at least hesitate to try and grab you. My mom has had to mace several would-be muggers.
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Strong_Savannah wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »
Hide some pocket knives or other self-defence devices in your socks or armband.Strong_Savannah wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.
I'm not worried about defending myself. If that was the case, I'd carry my pistol.
I don't run much anymore, but when I did I used this holster and was able to run just fine with it: https://www.amazon.com/Soft-Armor-Holster-Revolvers-23-29-Inch/dp/B00CI2B1HE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1503432138&sr=8-1&keywords=Belly+Band+Concealment+Holster+23"+-+29"+waist&th=1&psc=11 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
This x 10000000011 -
I have found a somewhat aggressive ( direct, a little louder than normal, neutral in emotion, a more formal address rather than just a "hey" or "what's up" etc...) "HELLO!" or "GOOD MORNING" etc... with direct eye contact is off putting for men. If you can get the jump on them and take away they're predatory drive ( you're not "prey" if you acknowledge them first) it takes away their power. They don't realize this, of course, they are just kind of in shock and say a quiet "Hi" back as you run or bike by at your most powerful speed and perfect form. Puff up, Be aggressive - and you'll beat them at their own game.
This is really interesting.
I suspect it might work......The men who do this kind of thing are bullies, after all.2 -
So glad this is not a big issue here (Japan). There are enough problems with equality between sexes but people do not cat call...ever. There are different things to worry about in mass transit but nothing that someone in NY wouldn't experience on a crowded subway.
Now I do agree that not looking like or being "prey" is important even here. Predators of all makes look for weak in the herd. It's not right or just but it's being safe. It's the main reason I have had my daughter in Aikido since she was 4. She had to throw a male bully at school that kept pushing her. She never should have needed to deal with this but her being able to gave me relief when I heard about it.5 -
So basically, men are dirtbags, women should just deal with it? Why is it always on the woman to control men's behavior? In schools, girls are told what and what not to wear based on how boys could react. Woman are told because they were dressed a certain way it was an invitation to be sexually assaulted. How about men control their own behavior. We don't need some strange dude to tell us we're beautiful, we already know.
I hope that you see it as a moral failure to tar an entire group with the brush of collective suspision and collective guilt. Perhaps I could remind you of the words of the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor: "To be pre-judge an individual based on the presumed characteristics of an entire class or group is the very essence of prejudice."7 -
Ehh... Some guys are just jerks.
The guy mentioned by the OP who started running side by side with her is just a jerk, and you shouldn't have to tolerate that
I think generally speaking, women like to feel admired, but not always, and not by everyone. So does a guy air on the side of caution and just keep his thoughts to himself, mmm that's probably best imo.
As for what you should do in this type of case... I wish I could just say to pepper spray him lol...1 -
I just smile and let them know they're number 1 (:0
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This pisses me off too, why is it a woman's responsibility to monitor her body language? I can't just run without making sure I look unapproachable? That's a load of BSTeacupsAndToning wrote: »You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »what is the appropriate way to give a compliment or break the ice? Is there one?
this is personal-opinion, but to a stranger? no, there is not. i don't mind if another gym regular says something to me from time to time. or even someone i don't know from a hole in the wall. but it's all based in a really important subtlety: provided there's a subtext of fellow-feeling from a fellow lifter to it. in other words, if it's not about me but about a small chunk of shared ground, then i'm fine.
but i wouldn't advise you to try and fake that. you either 'get' what it's like to be doing whatever you're basing your 'compliment' on . . . or you don't. and if you don't, then i don't think you'll fool very many people.
i guess tl;dr: never get the idea that the average woman who's just out in the world doing her thing gives a damn what your opinion is.7 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
He NEVER said she was the issue, nor did he imply it. He's not justifying what they're doing either, he's telling her WHY it's happening, someone close to him who it also happened to, and methods to stop it or minimize it happening.16 -
“I’m not trying to be creepy, but you are really cute." Then being creepy is effortless for you.16
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
He NEVER said she was the issue, nor did he imply it. He's not justifying what they're doing either, he's telling her WHY it's happening, someone close to him who it also happened to, and methods to stop it or minimize it happening.
The attractiveness of the woman isn't the issue, and it's not the reason why women are harassed on the street.10
This discussion has been closed.
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