Ladies - Receiving Unwanted "Attention"
Replies
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
LOL. That's a very "You don't have to swim faster than the shark..." kind of mentality. We've domesticated wolves before. We can do it again.5 -
I don't have any advice on how I handle it personally, because I've never experienced it. I go out walking quite a bit in various areas and have never received that kind of attention. I've been told that I often have a "don't mess with me!" look on my face and I carry myself with very straight posture which makes me look even taller than my 5'10", so maybe that has something to do with it too. Or... maybe I'm just not attractive enough to be worth the trouble, LOL
I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, OP, I'm just going by what I've been told about myself... that I carry myself with an air of authority and "*kitten* face" and that I come across as somewhat intimidating. Maybe that makes a difference? It's a shame if that were the case. Nobody should have to always feel like they have to look "tough" just to go for a run.4 -
Check out this article printed in Runner's World a few months ago: https://www.runnersworld.com/running-while-female It's a good read, and very accurate. A lot of men don't even realize the harassment/abuse women get while running - which amazes me. I've had a few encounters as well. I don't appreciate it. Crazy you have to worry about your personal safety when you just want to get a run in.
Thanks for sharing that article!
“The real center of attention is a man’s relationship with other men,” he says. Men and boys want to look cool, be funny, or find validation and acceptance from other men. Society teaches that to be a man, you must be powerful, aggressive, and dominant, and some men apply that to how they treat women on the street."
^^I've never realized this before. It almost always comes from a guy who has at least one friend with him. I think it'll help me to remember that it has nothing to do with me necessarily, just guys trying to show off to their friends and be dickheads.8 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Rosemary7391 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Sorry, that's terrible. Everyone deserves to not be harassed.
But, since I'm learning here, what is the appropriate way to give a compliment or break the ice? Is there one?
How about not complimenting, how about just talking about neutral subjects? Or at least subjects that don't involve how someone looks or your attraction to them.
I mean, c'mon, we're talking about interrupting someone who is obviously out for a run or something not-related-to-looking-for-company.
Compliments are personal and are appropriate after you've been talking to someone for a while. Not strangers.
So, short answer is that there is no way to break the ice unless you see them regularly. Sounds lonely and boring, but I think I got it.
P.S. - I think we all agree that it's never acceptable to interrupt someone during a workout. Headphones are a clear "Do not disturb" sign. SHAME!
Compliments aren't the same as breaking the ice (especially ones on physical appearance/fitness, which, let's face it, is all you've got to go on for a random stranger out for a run). It's not making a lonely and boring world for it not to be polite to yell "nice <bodypart>" at a randomer as they zoom past. It'd be lonely and boring if it wasn't polite to strike up a brief conversation about the weather/lateness of the bus/current events on public transport and gentle meanders through the park, but that's quite different. Leave the busy folks to it - and be nice to the ones who maybe would appreciate a natter
I don't know what a "natter" is, but I think we're in agreement
Just a random aimless chat might be a UK phrasing!2 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
You missed what I said.
I don't take issue with human psychology, I took issue with you saying that she needs to change the way that she looks in order to stop being harassed. The person who is doing the harassing is the one who needs to make a change.
Would it be nice if the harasser had a lightbulb moment wherein he realized his behavior was wrong and did not repeat it from that point forward? Yes, of course. However, if a person is living in reality and not in fantasy land, she'll realize that she cannot dictate/restrict/change the harasser's behaviors. She can only change her own behavior. To me it makes sense to *try* to develop skills, or a look or whatever you want to call it, that *might* deter harassment rather than insist on all harassers in the world seeing the light, which is never going to happen.9 -
I have had some success in coming flat out with it: "Do you have any idea how creepy you're being right now?" has caused a few to back off. Not all of them, though. Good thing I'm fast.8
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I saw that Runner's World article recently that was referenced above, and this line really stood out to me: "No matter how swift a woman's pace, it's impossible to outrun harassment."
It's disheartening that this is the reality. I think of my runs as my personal time to clear my head and relax. I usually try to just ignore the people who make comments about my body. I find it better to not engage. It is frightening when you're just jogging through your neighborhood and a car with several men slows down to drive next to you and make comments. It's unnerving when you keep crossing paths with someone during your run and each time you run past them they make a new comment at you. I always try to stay aware of my surroundings when I'm out, but it just plain sucks that this is the reality. It's not going to stop me from running, but no one -men or women - should have to deal with this crap.4 -
I saw that Runner's World article recently that was referenced above, and this line really stood out to me: "No matter how swift a woman's pace, it's impossible to outrun harassment."
It's disheartening that this is the reality. I think of my runs as my personal time to clear my head and relax. I usually try to just ignore the people who make comments about my body. I find it better to not engage. It is frightening when you're just jogging through your neighborhood and a car with several men slows down to drive next to you and make comments. It's unnerving when you keep crossing paths with someone during your run and each time you run past them they make a new comment at you. I always try to stay aware of my surroundings when I'm out, but it just plain sucks that this is the reality. It's not going to stop me from running, but no one -men or women - should have to deal with this crap.1 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Besides, I did not say they (as in all) would stop. I said many would.
Argue it all you want. This is what I do.
You will not change the wolves into puppies just because you don't like them.
But you can make them more likely to pick other prey.
You missed what I said.
I don't take issue with human psychology, I took issue with you saying that she needs to change the way that she looks in order to stop being harassed. The person who is doing the harassing is the one who needs to make a change.
Would it be nice if the harasser had a lightbulb moment wherein he realized his behavior was wrong and did not repeat it from that point forward? Yes, of course. However, if a person is living in reality and not in fantasy land, she'll realize that she cannot dictate/restrict/change the harasser's behaviors. She can only change her own behavior. To me it makes sense to *try* to develop skills, or a look or whatever you want to call it, that *might* deter harassment rather than insist on all harassers in the world seeing the light, which is never going to happen.
I never said that she shouldn't take her own precautions - we're in agreement there.
But I dislike when blame is put on the person being harassed.
It's hard to find the happy place in between letting fear control your actions and not giving a *kitten*. I'm going to wear clothes that are most practical and comfortable for my run, and choose the most convenient route for me, but I also do not run without a phone, or at night.0 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
woman don't have to be pretty to get it...and not all pretty woman get it...
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Strong_Savannah wrote: »On Sunday evening I decided to run up to the gym. There is a bowling alley/bar across the street from the gym, and as I am approaching, I see 3 guys sitting outside smoking.
I wouldn't run through the bowling alley again. The area sounds too remote. Run on the main street even if it's longer. These guys are probably just annoying, but you never know.
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Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.1 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
So basically, men are dirtbags, women should just deal with it? Why is it always on the woman to control men's behavior? In schools, girls are told what and what not to wear based on how boys could react. Woman are told because they were dressed a certain way it was an invitation to be sexually assaulted. How about men control their own behavior. We don't need some strange dude to tell us we're beautiful, we already know.40 -
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I like how this woman handles it: http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/2014/06/cardsagainstharassment/
Also, I'll second that it only happens when I'm either by myself or just with other women. If I'm with a male, whether it's my husband or not, I don't get harassed. And it thoroughly pisses me off that I feel like I must be escorted by a male if out for a walk in order to avoid harassment.6 -
Strong_Savannah wrote: »On Sunday evening I decided to run up to the gym. There is a bowling alley/bar across the street from the gym, and as I am approaching, I see 3 guys sitting outside smoking.
I wouldn't run through the bowling alley again. The area sounds too remote. Run on the main street even if it's longer. These guys are probably just annoying, but you never know.
If she's running to the gym, and the bowling alley is across the road, that's kinda unavoidable. Also, a street with a bar and gym is hardly remote - just sadly sometimes stocked with idiots !
To the person who posted the comedy clip - that is probably the sort of thing that is needed to change this. From guys, to guys, highlighting how daft they're being and how many man points they're not winning. Ditto for similar behaviour from females.3 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
So basically, men are dirtbags, women should just deal with it? Why is it always on the woman to control men's behavior? In schools, girls are told what and what not to wear based on how boys could react. Woman are told because they were dressed a certain way it was an invitation to be sexually assaulted. How about men control their own behavior. We don't need some strange dude to tell us we're beautiful, we already know.
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I was running in San Francisco down by the Embarcadero. One of a group of men commented about me as I was running by. I didn't acknowledge it, but I felt threatened. As someone earlier said, the other men I passed who were running by themselves just nodded a greeting, but this group of men emboldened one of their own to randomly comment on a random passing woman.
I tried to explain it to my husband, how irritating it was that an otherwise very nice run was essentially ruined because of fear. They didn't look scary, and didn't make any physical move towards me. I didn't really think *those* men were going to do anything to me, but it made me more aware that it was a possibility. My husband just could NOT understand why it was threatening at all. He tried to equate it to running where there were dogs and needing to have ways to deal with that situation. That's a semi-fair comparison, I supposed, but not quite.
When women are exercising, or, you know, basically just existing, the fact that many men feel completely comfortable inserting themselves into a woman's life just seems outrageous. I don't have an answer to this, nor really a hope of it changing. That women have to cope with/deal with/try-but-fail to avoid these situations is just wrong.14 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »Strong_Savannah wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.
I always feel like this is a bad idea unless you know how to use them. Creep attacks you, you pull knife, creep grabs knife, creep now has knife and you don't... yeah. Not good.
A properly secluded area should be pretty much free of opportunistic creeps - if you barely see a handful of folks on your day's hike then it isn't a place predators will go looking for trouble. Worst is probably semi secluded areas - busy enough for creeps to get a decent hit rate but not so busy that they have witnesses. Still freaks my mom out when I go camping/hiking on my own, but it's my life and I'm not letting what-ifs and creeps prevent me from doing things I enjoy.6 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »Strong_Savannah wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »OP, I see from your profile picture that you are quite pretty.
So this kind of treatment you are getting is just expected. It is not right but that is how the cookie crumbles. It happens to all pretty women around the world.
My wife deals with it. She says men roll down windows while jammed in traffic and they whistle or just make kissing faces and all kinds of effery. She gets followed in grocery stores. She is hourglass shaped and she gets comments about her butt. When I am with her, she gets stares. That is just how it is.
In NYC, women get followed.... and they need to hide in duane reade pretending to shop and take another door out.
My advice to you... don't run or hike in secluded areas. You never know what happens out there. Be careful.
I actually prefer more secluded areas, because I know I won't have to deal with anyone else! Just me, and peace and quiet. My favorite place to run is the backroad I grew up on.
But that is what's unfortunate - this treatment happens more often than not... yet I always seem surprised by it, smh.
I'm not worried about defending myself. If that was the case, I'd carry my pistol.9
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