Ladies - Receiving Unwanted "Attention"
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I love this thread because it's got me thinking. (long post, sorry)
Now that I'm in my 50s and 100+ lbs. overweight, men no longer look at me, comment on me, or initiate conversation with me. But back in the day, I was constantly wolf watched, propositioned, whistled at, hooted at, and chatted up.
In real life, I'm very friendly when I'm out and about and interactive with each and all - women and men.
I love men and love talking with men, so I don't deny myself the pleasure of their attention. It's just that now, I have to initiate it and so I do. I'm not really flirting and my desire to smile and chat is not borne of any intention to pursue romance and I think men know that. I chat with all ages. Today, men pretty much always respond to me with courtesy, gentility, kindness and surprising receptivity. We exchange pleasantries, chit chat or joke and go about our merry way - down the street, at work, at the post office, at the health club, whatever.
The dynamic though, between me and men, was drastically and unbelievably different when I was a young size 6 and pretty as a picture. I'm sure you know what I mean. Although today I give every man the benefit of the doubt and am indiscriminately willing to engage in light social interaction with them, I can't help but wonder.
*Were you the guy who, 30 years ago, discussed my asss with your friends at Dunkin Donuts when you stood behind me in line - loudly and descriptively declared what you wanted to do with it for all to hear?
*Were you the guy who, 20 years ago, waited until your wife was using the restroom and then approached me in the restaurant where I worked? And then told me you'd pick me up at 2 a.m. and take me on a "joy ride"? And did so with a straight face and complete earnestness?
*Were you the guy who grabbed my arm when I was 18 as I was walking by minding my own business? And then you wouldn't let go, and tried to grab my bewb for the entertainment of your laughing friends and delighted in my fearful reaction?
*Were you one of the many guys who used to slowly stalk me as I walked along, eyeing me like a wild animal who had gone without food for 48 hours and had a very possessed look in your eye? And scared me until I literally had to run away or duck into a store until you went away?
I don't know who's who anymore is what I'm saying. These wonderful, friendly, nice men who chat with me today could be the same guys I describe above. One never really knows. Oh well, che sera sera.
I think all women can relate to your experience.
I would take it further and say part of the reason I ate so much and got to be overweight is because I was done with men. I just got divorced, I had zero inclination to ever be in another relationship. I was 30, and was tired of years of that (above) treatment from men. So since I knew I didn't want any attention from men I didn't care if I was a little overweight AND food was an enjoyable pastime with friends. I learned to cook and cook well. I went out for meals. I ate ice cream on the couch in front of the TV.
Soon every event was about food.
Does it fill a void, and act as a comforting friend? Absolutely. When I decided to eliminate relationships, I no longer cared about being a particular size - I mean it wasn't even on the radar, and I didn't spend time worrying about how I looked. That was actually quite liberating.
Like alcoholism, it takes some time for the problem to progress. For a few years I was just ten pounds over weight. Then as my habits became entrenched, my weight increased. I didn't care one bit about the lack of attention from men but in hindsight I realize it made my self-pronounced, "single for life" stance a lot easier to maintain. Without that annoyance of events like @newmeadow mentioned my life was so much easier and more pleasant. Except I became uncomfortable with myself and started having health problems related to being overweight.
Fast forward to now and I'm at my 22 BMI. I'm older and wiser and would rather be this weight. I still don't want to be with a man, but now I have learned to deflect the ridiculous things that happen. I mentioned I'm in my sixties, right? Recently I've had a guy in a parking lot say, "Nice t!ts." I had one do that lovely little thing with the V fingers in front of their tongue. I had a twenty-something YO stalk me on a hike and wait for me at the trailhead to ask for my number. I had a young guy pull out his erect unit in front of me while I was at a beach. That is just in the last four months.
So yeah, me sitting on a chair and reading a book is definitely me not using the right RBI or "attitude."10 -
Don't get why cat calling exists. It is so weird to me to talk to strangers, let alone try to give them a complement on how they look. Especially if they are concentrating on doing something. Whenever my wife is out by herself she comes back and tells me something crazy some ninja has said to her. I just don't get it. Well I get that ninja just trying to smash and not looking for a relationship. That's all it is.7
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CapnVillainBLK wrote: »Don't get why cat calling exists. It is so weird to me to talk to strangers, let alone try to give them a complement on how they look. Especially if they are concentrating on doing something. Whenever my wife is out by herself she comes back and tells me something crazy some ninja has said to her. I just don't get it. Well I get that ninja just trying to smash and not looking for a relationship. That's all it is.
For real... I had one dude offer to buy me chicken randomly. I almost said yes... I was hungry.16 -
This happens way more often than it should to me, only when running outside. I must have perpetual resting b-face as I never get hit on or checked out in 'normal' life (that I notice), only ever when running so it has literally nothing to do with how you carry yourself. It's harassment, simple. I once had a lit cigarette thrown at me while I was out running.
I don't know what these peoples problem is but its exactly that, their problem and not yours. You keep doing you, run in public places, keep moving and try to ignore them6 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Sorry, that's terrible. Everyone deserves to not be harassed.
But, since I'm learning here, what is the appropriate way to give a compliment or break the ice? Is there one?
How about not complimenting, how about just talking about neutral subjects? Or at least subjects that don't involve how someone looks or your attraction to them.
I mean, c'mon, we're talking about interrupting someone who is obviously out for a run or something not-related-to-looking-for-company.
Compliments are personal and are appropriate after you've been talking to someone for a while. Not strangers.
So, short answer is that there is no way to break the ice unless you see them regularly. Sounds lonely and boring, but I think I got it.
P.S. - I think we all agree that it's never acceptable to interrupt someone during a workout. Headphones are a clear "Do not disturb" sign. SHAME!
Unfortunately headphones make a person even more vulnerable because they can't hear someone coming up behind them.
Just assume that the woman who is running or cycling has a partner and group of friends already, and isn't interested in adding to that group ... and that the woman isn't lonely or bored.
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
THIS.
Just like the rape survivor isn't at fault for what she wore to the party so to speak, this woman is not at fault for how she holds herself. The fault is on the predator. That's it.
We need to teach people how not to be creepy/predatory. We don't need to teach people how to be "less approachable."
Harassment is not ok. Why is that such a difficult concept?18 -
Wow, this thread is eye opening to me. I'm 42 and have NEVER experienced anything remotely like these stories. I don't know if it's because I have resting B face, if it's because I politely smile and nod at everyone I pass if I'm exercising outdoors, if it's because I'm self-confident in my ability to defend myself or if it's just that I'm built like a 12 year old boy, but I never get hit on, cat called or any of the other worse aggressions some of you have faced. I can't imagine it. Especially @cmriverside! That's crazy!!!! You should not have to put up with that.
@Chef_Barbell - the chicken! LOL That's hilarious. Completely strange and inappropriate, but still funny.
But this thread does make me kind of sad that some people still find this type of behavior acceptable.
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I'm mainly pissed when a guy, or anyone, tries to talk to me during my workout. Like last night, I had my head phones in and picked up a 30 lb dumbbell because I was about to do my second set of goblet squats when a guy tried to tell me something. He pointed down at an ab roller so I assume he said something about his workout. Then I put the weight down, took out my headphones, and he then said he liked me hat?? I smiled, said thanks, and put my headphones back in.
I had plenty of "DO NOT BOTHER ME" signs (hat, headphones, the ring on my finger for those interesting in anything other than small convo, and my resting B face). So I just don't get it.0 -
ttippie2000 wrote: »So basically, men are dirtbags, women should just deal with it? Why is it always on the woman to control men's behavior? In schools, girls are told what and what not to wear based on how boys could react. Woman are told because they were dressed a certain way it was an invitation to be sexually assaulted. How about men control their own behavior. We don't need some strange dude to tell us we're beautiful, we already know.
I hope that you see it as a moral failure to tar an entire group with the brush of collective suspision and collective guilt. Perhaps I could remind you of the words of the Honorable Justice Sandra Day O'Connor: "To be pre-judge an individual based on the presumed characteristics of an entire class or group is the very essence of prejudice."
As usual a man trying to "mansplain" something that doesn't need to be. I was responding to another post that basically said that this is the way things are. As someone who has to deal with this regularly, even at my advanced age, I think I have a little more experience than you.13 -
Having a lit cigarette thrown at you is absolutely awful! That is blatant harassment and disrespect, no way around it - one person treating another like trash.This happens way more often than it should to me, only when running outside. I must have perpetual resting b-face as I never get hit on or checked out in 'normal' life (that I notice), only ever when running so it has literally nothing to do with how you carry yourself. It's harassment, simple. I once had a lit cigarette thrown at me while I was out running.
I don't know what these peoples problem is but its exactly that, their problem and not yours. You keep doing you, run in public places, keep moving and try to ignore them
There is only one time that I can recall being yelled at during 'normal' life (not exercising). I was parked downtown on the "main" busy street, alone, and struggling to fit a box of full beer growlers on the floor of my backseat. Naturally, I was bent-over. The entire time I am struggling, I repeatedly hear, "Dat *kitten*, look at dat *kitten*!" I wanted so badly to whip around and yell at him that he clearly was able to lend me a hand with the beer if he had time to yell and stare at me. But, I decided not to give him any satisfaction of my acknowledging him in any way. I guess because I was alone and struggling, I was vulnerable/"prey" in his eyes.0 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »You appear to the casual observer to be one of the "sheep" so the wolves mark you as prey.
It is about body language mostly, especially with women.
It revolves around how you are carrying yourself and the attitude you are projecting.
If you want the wolves to leave you alone, look like one of the sheepdogs instead of a sheep.
Those clowns will not stop because they feel safe, empowered and in control.
Some of them may even think they are flattering you to get a date.
You on the other hand come across as a victim, even in this post.
My wife (who has fought several grown men full-contact and been in more than one altercation while out drinking in bars) calls it a "perpetual b1tch-face". Move and look like you don't want people messing with you and many won't.
Of course, being able to back that up helps with your self-confidence.
My wife may be a little too eager to start stuff sometimes...
Full Disclosure: I have taught Personal Protection, Combatives and Defensive Tactics for about 30 years.
I take issue with your language used here because this is coming off as, "if you just didn't look so approachable they'd stop."
No. She's not the issue. It's them.
Thank you for saying this.6 -
It's harassment, plain and simple, and it's not your fault. Ever. Ignoring it is probably the best thing to do, unfortunately, because if you respond with aggression, they might, too. You never know. Women have been killed for less, unfortunately.
I really wish the men reading this post would just read, maybe learn a thing or two about what it's like to walk through this world as a woman, and move on. All the "Hey, this is the solution!" (which is usually just telling a woman how to change her behavior because those men, you know they just can't help themselves.) or "Gosh, I didn't realize men did that! I'm one of the good guys, I swear!" (A thousand shades of #notallmen.) is not helpful. At all.18 -
Sake of conversation aside, given that the original poster said this:
men keeping quiet would be the respectful thing to do. She clearly asked for women's opinions."Strong_Savannah wrote: »"I would like to get some opinions from women who get unwanted attention like this while exercising in public, how you tend to respond, and how it makes you feel.5 -
I wish I got cat called and hit on..
I guess I'm too ugly.3 -
I got this a lot in college when I was running 5 mi/day. I think it is part of why I struggle with my weight now and why I have a mental block in losing weight. If I lose weight, I will be more attractive to the opposite sex and essentially bring this type of reaction upon myself. I know it is never my fault when someone else behaves inappropriately to me, but it does psychologically scar.5
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This happens way more often than it should to me, only when running outside. I must have perpetual resting b-face as I never get hit on or checked out in 'normal' life (that I notice), only ever when running so it has literally nothing to do with how you carry yourself. It's harassment, simple. I once had a lit cigarette thrown at me while I was out running.
I don't know what these peoples problem is but its exactly that, their problem and not yours. You keep doing you, run in public places, keep moving and try to ignore them
Last year I ran two 5ks, so I did a lot of running in my neighborhood building up to them. Men in passing cars yelled at me almost every single run, no matter what day of the week or time of day.
This year, I am walking in my neighborhood because I hate running and running hates my body (crummy knees & shin splints). Only one person so far has yelled out their car window to date.
I weigh the same and I'm wearing the same clothes & earbuds...I'm building the hypothesis that running is somehow viewed as 'sexy' (let me be clear: I am a terrible, slow, slow runner) whereas walking is boring and not attractive.
Whatever the reason, I'm glad to be less "visible" this year, because it was scary and stressful to have people yell at me out of the blue.
Partially related: the second 5k the shin splints were ludicrously bad and I hobbled most of the race. Passing women cheered me on, passing men explained to me that I could stop to stretch my calves, and had I considered tape (yes, I'm already taped), or shoes (yes, these were professionally fitted shoes), or compression socks (HELLO I AM WEARING HOT PINK KNEE HIGH COMPRESSION SOCKS RIGHT NOW, GUY), or just taking a break to rest????? By the time the THIRD guy slowed to "help" me, I was beyond over it.6 -
This has happened to me since I was 12 years old. I don't have to be exercising, just have to exist as female in public. It has picked up a little more since I lost weight but even at my fattest it still happened.6
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If it makes you all feel any better my 23 yo 6 ft 3 BJJ training son was running in town and a group of men yelled at him to...nothing nice mind you...I think the direct quote was "hey look at that f*****"
so it's not just women who get it.4 -
How I tend to respond depends on how I feel at the time, how safe I feel the situation is, etc. I did live on the streets for a while so I'm a pretty tough chick. A few times I have physically assaulted men for groping or harassing me. But if I am busy or it's a group of men in a bad area I usually just act like I didn't hear them and continue on my way. It's very situation dependent.0
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If it makes you all feel any better my 23 yo 6 ft 3 BJJ training son was running in town and a group of men yelled at him to...nothing nice mind you...I think the direct quote was "hey look at that f*****"
so it's not just women who get it.
No one claimed it was only women.
Also, to those saying to just put on a bish face, it doesn't work like that. I have terrible RBF and have been told that I am pretty unapproachable because of it. But that hasn't stopped people from yelling, honking, grabbing and otherwise harassing me in public. It isn't a me problem; it's a them problem.12
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