Ketogenic diet

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

brandiecolquitt wrote: »

Ahh the great CiCo debate--

Let me share my experience. I've been tracking for a good long while now. I've tracked on low fat high carb diets, I've tracked on middle of the road diets, I've tracked on Keto.

I lose weight faster when I'm on a ketogenic diet. Even when consuming the same number of calories per day. It really is super dependent on metabolic response and not everyone is the same. CiCo is a thing.. but it isn't as linear as some would like to make it out to be.

It is down to CICO, but there might be some mitigating factors due to being female and your hormones (can you tell that I was listening to Lyle McDonald this morning) that make your response to keto faster. At least at the outset.

Over time, every controlled study has shown that weight loss on keto diets and other methodologies is the same.

It does come down to calories.

Indeed, and I'll add, it's not that CICO is not linear, it's that WEIGHT LOSS is not linear...

brandiecolquitt wrote: »

Ahh the great CiCo debate--

Let me share my experience. I've been tracking for a good long while now. I've tracked on low fat high carb diets, I've tracked on middle of the road diets, I've tracked on Keto.

I lose weight faster when I'm on a ketogenic diet. Even when consuming the same number of calories per day. It really is super dependent on metabolic response and not everyone is the same. CiCo is a thing.. but it isn't as linear as some would like to make it out to be.

Welcome @brandiecolquitt to MFP forums.

The key to success is finding what works for each of one then systematically doing it until it becomes clear our system needs to be modified again.

CICO can not really be debated in a medical sense because no one posting here has the means to even know their own CICO values. While we can not know our own CICO without an expensive lab does make it mythical in a sense yet the best guess still can be helpful.

Personally I only compute my NET CICO by weighing my body each morning as I first step out of bed.

You are medically correct about our own metabolic response and that not everyone's is the same.

Three years ago at the age of 63 I realized my Way Of Eating, moving and thinking were rushing me to a very premature death and that the doctors wanted me to start on a dangerous in my view med for arthritis pain management. Our 16 year old kids were watching me quickly decline wondering if they were watching their future life. I had to do something to give them hope for their own future.

After 40 years of ever increasing yo-yoing weight I knew I had to stop using weight loss methods on the market today in the form of books, etc. I promised myself to use no method that I could not be doing 40 years later.

On a hunch I left all sweeteners including sugar and all forms of all grains cold turkey Oct 2014 hoping for pain management. It was a hellish first two weeks but the carb cravings then started to fade very fast. 30 days later my my pain levels had dropped from 7-8 (where it had been for many years) to 2-3 and I told the doctors I would pass on starting the Enbrel injections. Three years later my subjective pain level normally is <1 on a 1-10 scale.

Reading heavy use of coconut oil helped some people I had added it at the same time I went cold turkey off sugar and grain. I had not heard of the Low Carb High Fat WOE but was doing it by accident. Needlessly to say 3 years later I am still doing a LCHF WOE. While this may not work for others I know it works for this old man because my health and health markers are better than decades ago.

I eat and stay stuffed all of the time but have maintained a 50 pound weight loss for over two years but started losing about one pound a month again several months. For the past three years I have done all of my "counting and measuring" with the bathroom scales.

While I am opposed to putting people on guilt trips by saying weight loss is just CICO I expect that is not going to change.

In my case I have learned when sticking with my current LCHF macro I can eat until I am stuffed because unlike with high carb WOE's I do get full now and do not want another bite.

Oh I forgot to mention six months into nutritional ketosis my 30+ years of IBS left and still is gone.

Best of continued success.

Keto is not a diet, it is a healthy way of eating and if done right it is very sustainable. I know people who have been on Keto for years and their health has improved dramatically. What is not to like? Eat real food, meat, fish, cheese butter, eggs, loads of veg, berries, avocado, omega 3's..Steak and eggs, bacon and eggs, meat with lots of good vegetables, soups, stews etc. There is no end of food out there for keto..We cut all the processed foods and carbs which are high in sugar. Carbs convert into sugar even the whole wheat. Pre-diabetics and people with diabetes have done so well on this change ways of eating. Many have reversed their diabetes and lose weight, with BP, Cholesterol and Blood Glucose levels going down. We have been told to buy diet foods, which contain loads of sugar and people are just getting more obese. When you buy diet foods such as yogurts, check the sugar content, then check the sugar content of full-fat cream. The only yogurt I will eat now is plain Greek yogurt full fat as the diet yogurts are full of sugar. I won't buy anything diet. The food industry has been conning us into thinking that the diet products are good for us, but instead, people are gaining more weight because of hidden sugars. It is the same with me. My BG levels have gone down, Cholesterol, BP also. I always used to eat low-fat and diet food, even in the right portions. I could never lose weight. I loved couscous, potatoes, brown bread, brown pasta all the so-called healthy carbs. What happened my sugars went up. I could not understand why as I was doing exactly what my doctor told me to do. Carbs, even healthy ones convert into sugar, no wonder I was not losing weight or my BG levels were going down. My arthritis has also got easier. I cannot champion Keto enough to be honest.

derry1 wrote: »

Meant to say "Cut out all processed foods and carbs which are high in sugar

Processed foods also are high in fats.... like muffins, cake, etc....

GaleHawkins wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

Except on sub 50 grams of carbs you can't really have "loads of veg".
And sugar doesn't make you gain weight.

Sure glad you now now support a calorie is not a calorie is why sugar does not make you gain weight.

I dont think you understand what he wrote.

derry1 wrote: »

Keto is not a diet, it is a healthy way of eating and if done right it is very sustainable.

It's a way of eating that is often done as a diet.

Like most ways of eating, it can be done in a healthful and non healthful manner.

I personally think the most healthful way of eating involves a lot of vegetables which is not possible on 20 g of carbs or less. It can be on 50 g of carbs (although I found even that quite challenging) IF one pretty much only uses vegetables to satisfy the carb goal, and still you will have to limit many foods that can be healthful like fruit, legumes, maybe nuts, whole grains, tubers.

I think it could still have benefits that make that worthwhile, but suggesting that it's inherently healthier than non keto is absurd.

What is not to like?

You get a lot of calories from fat that has some benefits but generally is not high in micronutrients.

Many who do keto, due to personal preferences or the need to keep fat high (in their view) end up with probably much more sat fat than in a good idea, getting lots of fat from foods that don't offer a lot of micros (again), and eating a lot of animal products (especially foods like cheese and meat) that can be good in moderation but probably are not the wisest things to eat huge amounts of. Things like "fat bombs" also don't offer much over other forms of "junk food."

That said, one can do keto very healthfully too.

Many who do keto seem NOT to eat loads of veg, and one really can't eat loads of veg (again) at 20 g carbs and it's challenging even at 50 g carbs.

Ideally one would also focus on eating lots of fish, some organ meats, so on.

It's no easier to eat a nutrient-dense diet on keto than non keto, obviously.

And many processed foods aren't high carb, so eating keto has nothing to do with processed or not.

The idea that high carb foods (whatever "diet foods" are supposed to be) must contain lots of added sugar or that low fat means high added sugar shows that you have a very narrow idea about what foods exist and nutrition in general, IMO. I don't recommend low fat, but if I were thinking about a low fat diet (which also can easily held with all sorts of health issues, including T2D, in part -- like keto -- simply because of weight loss, and in part from having a more healthful diet with more fiber and more protein), I'd think of lean proteins (low fat cuts of meat, most seafood, legumes), lots and lots of vegetables, some fruit, some tubers and whole grains. Low fat dairy (which does not have added sugar any more than full fat -- it's there if you seek out the flavored stuff). I would avoid junk food because it has lots of fat too (and because presumably in this scenario I care about eating nutrient dense foods).

If one has to keto to avoid added sugar, one knows nothing about food or nutrition or cooking, IMO.