Pros and cons of a Keto Diet

GlassAngyl wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

wolfruhn wrote: »

Oh I forgot, some other pros of Keto (compared to high carbs) for:

* Epilepsy
* Alzheimers
* Parkinsons

Ketones: Metabolism's Ugly Duckling
Theodore B. Vanitallie, M D Thomas H. Nufert, BA
Nutrition Reviews, Volume 61, Issue 10, 1 October 2003, Pages 327–341, https://doi.org/10.1301/nr.2003.oct.327-341

The only choices are not just keto or high carb. False dilemma. And high carb in a person at a healthy body weight and eating a overall healthy diet had not been proven to have harmful health effects.

Didn't see where she said there is only keto or high carb. Just keto vs high carb. Again, having to use crayons to spell things out for the "in the box" crowds.

There is also low carb and vegetarian and vegan and Atkins and point system and...well, just etc etc! But woops.. silly her posting on a question about keto post and not giving honorable mentions to other woe's.

You can eat high carb and lose.

Most Americans don't eat "high carb" as that is normally defined.

Don't see anyone here arguing that people need to "high carb" (I'd not enjoy it at all).

Don't see anyone here arguing that it doesn't matter what you eat, just that keto vs. not is not the same as "nutritionally adequate" vs. not as has been incorrectly claimed by wolfruhn.

earlnabby wrote: »

GlassAngyl wrote: »

And just so we are clear.. vegetarians and vegans get attacked less than those who want to try keto or low carb.

How about we make this totally clear. Those who eat keto do NOT get attacked. Those who claim that keto is the only way to eat or make false claims about its superior health benefits WILL receive push back and requests for proof (just like anyone else who claims any kind of absolute). It is not the way you choose to eat, it is the way you (general you) present it to the world that triggers how the world will respond. Since keto is the flavor of the moment, there are currently more of the "you must" type of posts regarding it than other types of diets.

Yes, this.

I love low carbing, I think keto works well for some people (and can be done more or less healthfully, although I don't comment on people's individual diets unless they ask me to). I hate the claims that keto is superior for one reason or another or that 50% of humans need to keto or stuff like that. It's not backed up by evidence.

JustRobby1 wrote: »

GlassAngyl wrote: »

cerise_noir wrote: »

wolfruhn wrote: »

Shame about all the people who continue to argue against Keto, while millions more people across the globe continue to be trapped and become part of the obesity epidemic. Arguing that just go ahead and eat whatever you like as long as you stay within calories.

The modern 'fad' for carb centric diets started after WW2 but it clearly hasn't worked, as evidenced by looking around while at the mall.

It's about time people started waking up and getting back to the position of Ketosis being absolutely okay and a natural experience that many people went into and out of regularly over hundreds of thousands of years of man's evolution.

Lol. Because carbs cause obesity, right?

Newsflash: it doesn't work for everyone. For some, LC or Keto can cause disastrous effects (IBS, crohns, Hypercholesterolemia, heart disease, etc).

Keto isn't a magic cure.

Only true statement here is that keto isn't a magic cure and doesn't work for everyone. It's a freaking miracle to those who couldn't lose any other way. To those who could, just a diet choice.

You might want to do your research on IBS and Crohns.. There is no substantial study done on IBS sufferers but the one study that was done on 13 participants, 13 had an improvement over a 2 week study and 10 reported an improvement on their condition for the full 4 weeks. Those that reported worse symptoms were found to have been eating to much protein. Some people are confused and thinks protein is suppose to be high.. it isn't. I have IBS and I haven't had one episode since starting low carb.
https://www.verywell.com/ketogenic-diet-for-ibs-4083084

Works on crohns as well..
http://www.ijcasereportsandimages.com/archive/2016/009-2016-ijcri/CR-10690-09-2016-toth/ijcri-1069009201690-toth-full-text.php

It's good for heart disease if USED CORRECTLY (bad fats vs good)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

And hypocholesterolemia..
https://ketogeniclab.com/how-keto-diet-saved-antyas-life/

And there you have it kids..

Of the two valid sources you listed, I have to ask, did you even read the papers?

Why yes, and understood it. Even the parts that WERE negative.. just not about what you were posting about.. How bout you? Did you catch that? There can be negative side effects in SOME people but the study showed that it is a SAFE diet.. this from the government site. Negatives came from there also. I actually enjoy research.

Sorry, I should clarify first that you did mean the Gov site as one of the legit ones? Or are you concerned about their validity because of FEMA camps and Chem trails and harrp weather? Just making sure.

I thought about taking screen shots when I first posted the links and add the images because I just KNEW you would side step YOUR arguments and look for SOMETHING to work with.. but i figured that you would just do that regardless anyways so why bother?

GlassAngyl wrote: »

Pro.. once the toxins are gone your breath will smell sweet. Varying times for different people.

So this is my only query. What toxins?

wolfruhn wrote: »

Shame about all the people who continue to argue against Keto, while millions more people across the globe continue to be trapped and become part of the obesity epidemic. Arguing that just go ahead and eat whatever you like as long as you stay within calories.

The modern 'fad' for carb centric diets started after WW2 but it clearly hasn't worked, as evidenced by looking around while at the mall.

It's about time people started w

waking up and getting back to the position of Ketosis being absolutely okay and a natural experience that many people went into and out of regularly over hundreds of thousands of years of man's evolution.

first of all I would like to say I lost weight eating carbs. I became obese eating too much food and moving less. as for keto being best. keto could literally cause me to have a heart attack,stroke or TIA. you may ask why. well I will tell you before you poo poo saying keto is great for everyone. first of all I have nothing against keto or those who do it. BUT,for me I have FH(familial hypercholesterolemia) my body produces too much cholesterol so my liver and other organs cannot properly process fat and cholesterol and filter it,so any excess gets stored. I end up with fat pads around my joints, I have cholesterol deposits under my eyes, and so on. which would mean it would get stored in my arteries.

so for me eating high amounts of fat and cholesterol containing foods is a no go. I tried keto before I found out I had FH and it made me lethargic(did it for about 2 months), I had brain fog,my breath and sweat stunk to high heaven.my blood sugar was low,I was dizzy(and yes I did it properly and made sure to get enough sodium,magnesium and potassium). I couldnt even function,not to mention my cholesterol went even higher and I started having other issues.

once I stopped I started to feel better and get my energy back. I have to eat a low fat/low cholesterol,high fiber diet. My cholesterol has improved to where I now have normal numbers in over 15 years. I feel better, my fat pads are so small now its not too noticeable, my xanthelasmas are going away as well. I have eaten what I liked and kept within my calories and have lost weight. I even have a metabolic disorder and eat sometimes more than 200g of carbs a day.

Just because keto is great for some people out there, doesnt mean that everyone should do it or can do it. In my case and for others like me high amounts of fats could cause death in the long run.thats not something I want to mess with. If it works for you great continue to eat that way but please stop telling everyone its the best way of eating and better for everyone when clearly its not.kudos to those who can eat that way and improve their health issue. But some health issues can be improved with weight loss and change in diet.

Well, this thread's been a journey.

I'm going to ignore a lot of it since I think that's best.

Keto's biggest con for me is that it's a macro mix I don't find satiating AND I have familial hypercholesterolemia. In spite of the dubious n=1 link I saw posted earlier, I'm going to stay with current medical guidelines on the issue and stick with a low fat high carb diet (with plenty of protein). (Especially since I find that way of eating to be satisfying.)

In the end, I don't think dietary choice comes down to a list of objective pros and cons that you sift through and then make a choice, like you do when ... oh, I don't know, maybe say, buying a new car (though sometimes emotion comes into that, so that might not be the best analogy).

I think dietary choice comes down to a list of subjective pros and cons, and you can't ask other people about them. You have to try things out and experience them for yourself.

Satiety is individual, and whether or not the macro balance of keto or any other way off eating suits you and your activity level is only something you can find out for yourself.

Real world experience for me is that just about every person that have purported to have lost their weight on keto that I have encountered, regained it back and now are looking for a better way to do it. Granted I don't see thousands of people a day, but even speaking to lean people in my gym, it's not a common way to eat. Possibly because of the society we live in attributes, but remember that all eating behavior is usually first learned in the first 10 or so years of life.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

aernest825 wrote: »

AlabasterVerve wrote: »

I eat less vegetables now just because I eat less than I did before but a day that looks like this (fruit & vegetables in the morning, salad for lunch and roasted vegetables for dinner) isn't unusual and I imagine it is a lot of vegetables for most (low carb or not):

Summary: 2.5 pounds or 14 servings of vegetables, 37 net carbs

Yes, but for ketosis, you are getting a LOT of carbs ; generally 20g max for those following keto

It's not. That's the current perpetuated nonsense that is floating around. Many people sustain ketosis levels at much higher levels than 20g. If a person's goal is to get into ketosis as fast as possible, than you can go down to 20g and use IF to help accelerate the process. But once you are in, it's much easier to sustain and you can do it after higher levels, especially if you are active. Hell, I have known cyclist that can do it at 200g of carbs a day. So making blanket statements without knowing the person and what they are doing is not helpful and only leads to over generalizations based on inaccuracies.

nvmomketo wrote: »

AlabasterVerve wrote: »

GlassAngyl wrote: »

AlabasterVerve wrote: »

GlassAngyl wrote: »

wolfruhn wrote: »

Shame about all the people who continue to argue against Keto, while millions more people across the globe continue to be trapped and become part of the obesity epidemic. Arguing that just go ahead and eat whatever you like as long as you stay within calories.

The modern 'fad' for carb centric diets started after WW2 but it clearly hasn't worked, as evidenced by looking around while at the mall.

It's about time people started waking up and getting back to the position of Ketosis being absolutely okay and a natural experience that many people went into and out of regularly over hundreds of thousands of years of man's evolution.

You say it so much nicer than I do..
Course I envy those who can carb and lose weight.. but I agree.. it APPARENTLY isn't the easiest way or more obese people wouldn't struggle and give up and restart over and over and over and.. well you get the idea. The only complaint from anti ketoers is from those who continued to over eat on it trying to hit macros .. not sure how that's possible but I think they are saying "do it for me so I don't have to do any work".. and from those who agreed it worked but didn't feel it was varied enough in choices because they listened to the psycho keto cults that restricted everything and didn't tell them about keto breads and noodles and deserts (or they are just lazy and if it isn't prepackaged it's not an option..) Now their minds are permanently poisoned to the idea.

I hate you're doing it wrong posts - no one ever appreciates them and they're usually not true. Some people don't respond well to keto, some people don't like the food, some people experience no tangible benefits, some people don't lose weight, some people do overeat - it doesn't work for them - and that's ok, it doesn't have to.

That it works for you is enough, right?

Exactly what I've been saying literally this ENTIRE TIME! But no.. let's pick and choose what they want to see..

1: "Keto (blurrs out important part) everyone.
2: It worked for me because (blah blah blah I don't want to hear this!)
3:But like I said, if I could do regular cico. I (she hates cico and thinks it's the wrong way! I hate her!)
4: Don't let others discourage you. There is more than one way to do keto. (OMG she just promoted keto!)
5: You may find you don't like it and prefer low carb instead. (Ugh! I hate keto promoters!)
6 and 7: But until you try for yourself, you won't know for sure if it's for you. Some do better on a higher (I refuse to listen to this crap!) diet. (All she did was promote her way of eating!)

So.. let's try this again but fill in the missed blanks. 1:(Isn't for) 2:(Pro's of why it helped me) 3:(Cons of why it may not work for you) 4:(They won't know unless they try for themselves so why bash it?? Unless you are promoting YOUR WOE!) 5:(Maybe they don't want high carbs and only know of two ways.. here is a chance to show them that there are variations to choose from.) 6:(carbs.. yeah.. I promoted something that didn't work for me. Hmmm. That it may or may not work for them is enough, right?) 7:(And back at square one as everything anti-ketoers are against is blanked out as they ignore the part where I promote ALL methods just so long as they TRY it without being biased by others.)

And just so we are clear.. vegetarians and vegans get attacked less than those who want to try keto or low carb. And some of them are keto as well! It isn't easy for vegans though.. Yet, if a VEGAN can attempt to eat high fat and low carb on their TRULY RESTRICTIVE diet, why can't a curious newbie try it for themselves before being attacked and scared away because others found it too hard for them? That's why they add friends who are like minded.. To seek advice when they are confused.

I agree with you 100% - you've nailed the experience most have with the general forums and it's why so few who eat low carb post here. All of the what-about-mah-vegtables, it's not sustainable, your breath, your kidneys, you can't cut out a whole food group, everything in moderation and the number the of woo's on posts for anyone who takes the time to share their positive experience with the diet is wrong. And it's absolutely shameful the ignorant, anti low carb bias is the loudest voice on the forums even when it's recommended by a posters doctor.

I hate all of that but the reverse it true too - a ketogenic diet isn't right for everyone and they should be able to share that.

I only had 3 woo's on my post about my personal experiences with the diet. LOL

The board is getting more accepting of LCHF over time. A couple of years ago a keto thread would get more of the woo science responses than there is now. People know more about it and can approach it from an educated position.

I think a common argument now is against sustainability, but I have not seen anything that shows LCHF is less sustainable than any other diet. Again, I think that comes down to a person's circumstances. I could never maintain moderation in all things but I'm a few years into LCHF and keto.

The other most common seems to be the need to point out that keto is not magic. I have no idea if that is as common in vegetarian, vegan, Mediterranean, SAD, paleo/primal, clean eating, or moderation threads since I do not look into those as much. I doubt it though.... Well, maybe in paleo threads.

aernest825 wrote: »

AlabasterVerve wrote: »

I eat less vegetables now just because I eat less than I did before but a day that looks like this (fruit & vegetables in the morning, salad for lunch and roasted vegetables for dinner) isn't unusual and I imagine it is a lot of vegetables for most (low carb or not):

Summary: 2.5 pounds or 14 servings of vegetables, 37 net carbs

Yes, but for ketosis, you are getting a LOT of carbs ; generally 20g max for those following keto

I agree with the previous poster. Ketogenic diets just has you in ketosis all the time. The carb level needed to maintain that can really vary. Many can do fine with 50g, athletes with timed carbs may go over 200g, inactive people with insulin resistance may need to stay under 20g, and some people find they feel best when their carbs are as close to zero as possible. There is a lot of variation.

Whatever the diet of the month is, generally gets the most attention.. Paleo was big a few years ago, and vegetarian/plant based still get some reactions as well (especially when they demonize dairy/meats). The problems occur when those who are new make the normal outrageous claims. If you need some examples on the claims, I can look through some of my recent threads and point some out, lol. Heck.. in one post, I could probably list the normal nonsense that I have heard from every major style diet.


ETA: I blame blogs, youtube and netflix.