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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
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Some interesting reading about games vs. sports
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game#Definitions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport#Etymology
Personally, I think if a person believes their activity is a sport, it probably is. I respect that thought less when they get personally offended when others don't believe it is. Of course, me explaining this is apparently equivalent to me getting offended.
Also, we're dealing with the definition of sports, we're not debating something strictly scientific. Definitions evolve and change all the time. Definitions of sport are absolutely up for debate and discussion.
Personally, I consider arguing on MFP message boards a sport.8 -
byustrongman wrote: »Some interesting reading about games vs. sports
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game#Definitions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport#Etymology
Personally, I think if a person believes their activity is a sport, it probably is. I respect that thought less when they get personally offended when others don't believe it is. Of course, me explaining this is apparently equivalent to me getting offended.
Also, we're dealing with the definition of sports, we're not debating something strictly scientific. Definitions evolve and change all the time. Definitions of sport are absolutely up for debate and discussion.
Personally, I consider arguing on MFP message boards a sport.
I think it's funny you keep referring to this as people getting offended.
I don't play most sports on a regular basis but I have engaged in a lot of different ones frequently and I personally am not offended that you don't think golf is a sport...I think it's funny as hell and shows you probably haven't played it. did you know that the average round of golf requires you to walk 6 miles?
As well as people not considering individual pursuits sports such as scuba diving....that to me is funny because the only reason for that is that is isn't in competition with another person...
to each their own but perhaps using less drastic language such as "offended" would help your cause more.7 -
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not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.6 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated5 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.7 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »
the bolded is not in any definition of "sport" that I Have seen.Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »There is a difference between a sport and a competition. All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Fishing doesn’t become a sport merely because a lot of fishermen get together and compete against each other for a prize, it is a competition. The same with synchronized swimming, dogsledding, powerlifting, competitive eating, ice sculpturing, and lumberjacking; the mere fact that people gather and engage in these activities in competition with each other does not make them sports. That doesn’t mean that many competitive activities don’t require just as much talent, dexterity, strength, and resilience as sports do.
you might want to revamp this list...
synchronized swimming is hard and requires a lot of physical endurance and strength.
as does powerlifting
lumber jacking aka highland games
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
The defining characteristic isn’t whether an activity is “hard” or not. I scuba dive, it is very physically demanding, but it isn’t anything close to a sport.
One of the characteristics that define a sport is whether participants actually play against another individual or team, with that opposing individual or team able to exert some sort of defense or otherwise impede their efforts. Otherwise, it is just an activity.
A group of synchronized swimmers can gather in a pool in an empty building and put on a very physically demanding performance – the presence of others isn’t required to participate in the activity. In the Summer Olympics, the best groups of swimmers gather together and compete, but at no time do any of the groups ever physically interact with each other or otherwise influence their performances. Therefore it isn’t a sport, it is a competition.
The same with powerlifting. I lifted weights this morning, engaging in an individual activity, not a sport, even though it required strength. If I show up at a powerlifting event this weekend, I’m performing similar activities before judges, and if I happen to lift the most weight, I win the competition. That doesn’t make it a sport. Only if an opposing powerlifter was able to affect my performance in some way would it become a sport.
scuba diving depending on how it's done could be considered a sport...
tell me running isn't a sport...but it is mostly done as an individual, can be done in competition and the others competing will not affect the performance of the runner unless by accident.
so again...
sports again are defined as an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
where as game is defined as a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
and competitions are what are a result of games/sports...
btw I have a brother who is a master diver and I have done some myself...is it a sport...Yes...based on the definiton of it being done by an individual for entertainment....and if you require the competition aspect..fine they are competing against themselves
Focusing on this part of your definition:
…in which an individual or team competes against another or others...
I interpret “against” as literal. With powerlifting, synchronized swimming, golf, etc., you are not competing directly against other competitors (they may not even be in the venue with you at the time you are competing), you are performing an activity as an individual or team and that performance is then compared to other individuals or teams, whether it is the amount of weight lifted, the judge’s scores, the number of golf strokes, etc.
In tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, etc., you are literally competing against an opponent, and the requirement of the simultaneous presence of an opponent defines the activity as a sport. In basketball you don’t have a single team come out and shoot as many baskets as possible in 48 minutes and then another team come out afterwards and do the same thing, later comparing the point totals and then declaring a winner. The interaction between the 2 teams in exerting their will upon the other is integral and is one of the major factors that defines it as a sport.
It is fairly common in competitive powerlifting for attempts to be based off of what other competitors are lifting/totaling though. What one lifter does can change the outcome of what another may decide to attempt... So it's not entirely "we'll each do our own thing and then compare after." There is a certain aspect of interaction which can affect the outcome.
I'm not contending that being in close proximity or being aware of what your competitors are doing won't change the nature of the competition, it does all the time. Reacting based upon the actions of your competitor (becoming less aggressive when you know you have a big stroke lead in golf, easing back when you know you are 1,000 meters ahead of the 2nd place runner in a 10,000 meter run, not going for a PR on a lift because you know you can win without it based on your competitor's lift) is very different than a direct defense like a pitcher throwing a fastball past you, a goalie blocking your slapshot, a cornerback covering a pass thrown to you in football, etc.
Both are competitive, thus both qualify as sports
You seem to be trying very hard to define what IS NOT a sport. I’m not sure why.
Not complicated
A spelling bee is competitive, is that a sport?
You seem to be averse to critical thinking and analysis, which doesn't entail snarky comments like "Not complicated", lol. I have clearly defined my definition of sports and provided numerous examples to back up my analysis, you just don't like my answer.
you keep giving examples of things you consider sports or not sports. You haven't given a single example of any other person or authoritative body that agrees with your narrow definition of "sport"6 -
Obviously cake culture has destroyed any objective definition of sports. All arguments are irrelevant.25
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I think anything other than using grams in the food diary is silly. I think getting a close to accurate daily accounting of ones food intake in MFP is very hard, and nearly all the diaries I read are off by hundreds of calories.4
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I think anything other than using grams in the food diary is silly. I think getting a close to accurate daily accounting of ones food intake in MFP is very hard, and nearly all the diaries I read are off by hundreds of calories.
I mostly agree with the grams unless it's liquids.
I think getting accurate on MFP is in direct correlation to how much work/effort you are willing to put in...aka adding your own entries from USDA.
and yes most are off a lot...mine is lately but when I was actively losing it was not....it was as close as I could get it.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »
If it's competitive and your competitor influences the way you eat cake, it's a sport. If not, no!!7 -
I think anything other than using grams in the food diary is silly. I think getting a close to accurate daily accounting of ones food intake in MFP is very hard, and nearly all the diaries I read are off by hundreds of calories.
I mostly agree with the grams unless it's liquids.
I think getting accurate on MFP is in direct correlation to how much work/effort you are willing to put in...aka adding your own entries from USDA.
and yes most are off a lot...mine is lately but when I was actively losing it was not....it was as close as I could get it.
this. I've been able to increase my target calories by 500 per day, without slowing my weight loss at all, just by cracking down on my entries.1 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »
competitive so sport obviously...but since it's work cake sport culture?2 -
You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.8
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KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
But it sure helps, i.e. BMI in normal range or close to it.1 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.10 -
KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
Sorry, but obesity is, itself, an illness. The very state of being obese it unhealthy. You can be overweight and have good blood work, be able to deadlift 500 pounds and run a marathon, but you’re still unhealthy and at a greater risk of a number of diseases than you would be if you were a healthy weight.
As a person whose been obese my entire adult life, coming to terms with this hard fact was not easy.
That's funny because I weigh..a lot.. and have perfect blood pressure, cholesterol, the works. My doctors say that I'm healthy. Fat, but healthy. I trust someone with a medical degree a lot more than a trust someone with a personal opinion.19 -
Packerjohn wrote: »KiskaVedma wrote: »You don't have to be thin or "fit" to be healthy.
But it sure helps, i.e. BMI in normal range or close to it.
BMI has been proven time and time again to be BS.22
This discussion has been closed.
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