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Can you both desire to lose weight and be body positive?

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Replies

  • JillianRumrill
    JillianRumrill Posts: 338 Member
    Body positivity shouldn't just mean "pro fat", take it for what it is...love your body and treat it well.
    In fact, I look at it this way, because I love my body, I work at losing weight so I won't have knee problems or diabetes like my mom. I saw firsthand what obesity does to a body, it's a slow and very painful death.
  • timtam163
    timtam163 Posts: 509 Member
    Body positivity partly means minding your own business, and partly respecting yourself and others regardless of body configuration, and partly unlearning toxic ideas about worthiness and desirability in our culture. None of those necessarily preclude weight loss as a goal, but they do change the "why": and as others pointed out, weight loss is more sustainable with a positive mindset rather than a self-loathing mindset.

    Body positivity also forgives you if you don't achieve your weight loss goals, which I think is really awesome. Some people keep weight off and that's great, but others due to life circumstances and genetics and habits and health, may not be able to lose weight and keep it off. Some may not want to, and find that fat affords them protection that helps them function psychologically. Body positivity will forgive all that, will forgive you for not being psychologically ready.

    In the end we're all humans, and we are more than our fleshbags.
  • whosshe
    whosshe Posts: 597 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,577 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    By your definition no one could be healthy because everyone has at least one risk factor for health problems.
  • whosshe
    whosshe Posts: 597 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    By your definition no one could be healthy because everyone has at least one risk factor for health problems.

    Sure lol no one is 100% in complete health.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,577 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    By your definition no one could be healthy because everyone has at least one risk factor for health problems.

    Sure lol no one is 100% in complete health.

    Got anything to back that one up?
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,270 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    No I heard your point but it is a fallacy due to the fact you are confusing the present state of being healthy with the potential to not be healthy. Overweight people can be healthy but be at risk. Smokers by default are not healthy as they are in the process of damaging themselves each time they smoke...even each time they take a puff (coming from an ex smoker of 20 years.

    by the definition of healthy overweight can be healthy...if they are in a state of physical and mental and social well being they are defined as healthy.



  • whosshe
    whosshe Posts: 597 Member
    edited November 2017
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    No I heard your point but it is a fallacy due to the fact you are confusing the present state of being healthy with the potential to not be healthy. Overweight people can be healthy but be at risk. Smokers by default are not healthy as they are in the process of damaging themselves each time they smoke...even each time they take a puff (coming from an ex smoker of 20 years.

    by the definition of healthy overweight can be healthy...if they are in a state of physical and mental and social well being they are defined as healthy.



    How is being overweight being in a state of physical well being? AND mental?
  • whosshe
    whosshe Posts: 597 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    By your definition no one could be healthy because everyone has at least one risk factor for health problems.

    Sure lol no one is 100% in complete health.

    Got anything to back that one up?

    Have you given me anything to back up ANYTHING you've claimed? Get out of here lol
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,270 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    No I heard your point but it is a fallacy due to the fact you are confusing the present state of being healthy with the potential to not be healthy. Overweight people can be healthy but be at risk. Smokers by default are not healthy as they are in the process of damaging themselves each time they smoke...even each time they take a puff (coming from an ex smoker of 20 years.

    by the definition of healthy overweight can be healthy...if they are in a state of physical and mental and social well being they are defined as healthy.



    How is being overweight being in a state of physical well being? AND mental?

    if the all medical tests come back fine how is it not in a state of physical well being...and mental I had no mental issues when I was overweight...nor do I now.

    You assume that those who are bigger are sad or depressed etc and that's why they are overweight...maybe they just like food....
  • whosshe
    whosshe Posts: 597 Member
    edited November 2017
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    No I heard your point but it is a fallacy due to the fact you are confusing the present state of being healthy with the potential to not be healthy. Overweight people can be healthy but be at risk. Smokers by default are not healthy as they are in the process of damaging themselves each time they smoke...even each time they take a puff (coming from an ex smoker of 20 years.

    by the definition of healthy overweight can be healthy...if they are in a state of physical and mental and social well being they are defined as healthy.



    How is being overweight being in a state of physical well being? AND mental?

    if the all medical tests come back fine how is it not in a state of physical well being...and mental I had no mental issues when I was overweight...nor do I now.

    You assume that those who are bigger are sad or depressed etc and that's why they are overweight...maybe they just like food....

    What medical tests are we talking? Because my medical tests came back fine too. So am I healthy? No. Just by being a smoker I am unhealthy. Just like just by being overweight I am also not healthy.

    Also, I didn't say anything about bigger people being sad or depressed.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,270 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    Oh stop kidding yourselves. Swimming cuts your weight significantly so it's literally less taxing on the body.

    Being overweight is not in and of itself unhealthy. It can raise your risk of disease, but regular activity can decrease it.

    No. Having more fat on your body raises your risk of disease, yes, which makes it unhealthy. Regular activity, unless you're burning fat, does not decrease it. Regular activity with no change in how much fat is on your body does not change how much fat is on your body. So it wouldn't change your risk of diseases.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/health/fat-but-fit-myth-heart-disease-study/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/obesity-health-no-such-thing-as-fat-but-fit-major-study

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fat-but-fit-myth-diet-fitness-obesity-complications-inclusive-a7741126.html (this one might give you "fat but fit" but definitely not fat and healthy)

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/fat-but-fit-still-at-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/


    All 3 of those reference the same study... which didn't actually review anything about "fat but fit"

    They literally all reviewed "fat but fit". Why would you need to do more than one study if one study proves "fat but fit" wrong?

    The thing with science is that once it's proved with evidence you don't really need to look at it again.

    Well I guess the sun is the center of the universe, atoms are the smallest thing, and eating dietary fat makes you fat.

    If you thought one study was all you needed, why did you post it three times with different links?

    Oh. My gahd. I already said I misspoke. Right now there is more evidence than none saying you cannot be healthy and overweight. Until that is proven wrong then that's all we have. There is no evidence at all saying you can be healthy and overweight. Being overweight is inherently unhealthy.

    The problem with your statements is that you talk in absolutes when the evidence only supports probability.

    You can be overweight and healthy. You will never disprove that to me since I was overweight and healthy for about 8 years. But the reason I lost the weight is that remaining overweight increased the probability of developing a health problem.

    I am obese and healthy.

    I will still be obese when I hit my goal weight.

    I will not be particularly more healthy.

    By having less fat on your body you will be more healthy then you were. Where are your tens of thousands of examples falsifying this claim?

    NO, I won't. I may have a reduced risk for future health impacts. But I won't be "more healthy".

    If someone is underweight can they be healthy?

    Yes, of course.

    But if they were in a normal weight range would they be more healthy?

    Unknown. Let's turn this around to see if it makes more sense to you. Is everyone in the healthy weight range healthy?

    No not everyone in the healthy weight range is healthy. But if they are unhealthy it has nothing to do with how much they weigh. Same as obese people, they can be unhealthy and it could have nothing to do with their weight. But there are increased health risks that come with just having too much fat on your body. So obesity=unhealthy. And if you smoke cigarettes, you have increased health risks that come with smoking cigarettes. So smoking=unhealthy.

    No, smoking=unhealthy, because it causes immediate, measureable damage to the lungs, heart, etc. Some of that damage is reversible, some is not.

    Carrying extra body fat does not cause immediate, measurable damage to the body. It increases certain risk factors and may lead to damage. but it doesn't cause it.

    I smoke cigarettes and I am metabolically healthy. I have absolutely no health conditions associated with smoking cigarettes. I am also overweight and metabolically healthy.

    Smoking cigarettes increases health risks and so does extra body fat. Both unhealthy.

    Incorrect. A scan of your lungs would show measurable damage.

    That's a health condition. You have a measurably lower VO2Max than you would as a nonsmoker.

    Have you had your whole body scanned? I've had my chest X rayed at least and no problems there.

    That wouldn't show anything about metabolic health. That just means you don't have any unusual masses.

    That was a reply to the man who said a scan of my lungs would should measurable damage. I am metabolically healthy. I have no health problems.

    you are here trying to tell us that you are a smoker and that it's not causing you health issues at this very moment...

    but have a bit of extra fat does....

    wow...just wow.

    No I said just because I'm metabolically healthy doesn't mean I'm healthy LOL. Smoking isn't healthy that's not what I'm saying at all. Just because I smoke that makes me unhealthy. Just because it's not causing me health issues at this very moment doesn't mean it's healthy. You have it so twisted.

    no...I am not mixed up...I think you might be.

    1. In one post you said Xrayed...now it's scanned
    2. You said you have no health conditions associated with smoking...which you do you just don't see them...come run a couple miles with me or Stan and let's see how healthy you are
    3. you say you are healthy metabolically but are still overweight but have said repeatedly you can't be health and overweight...ps 30lbs left to lose usually means you are still overweight unless you are an outlier...which based on your pics you are not.

    1. I said I had an x ray at least. I know he said scan. I haven't had any scans of my body and neither has he so how does he know he has absolutely no health problems associated with being overweight.
    2. I was talking about metabolic health. Which is what you were talking about. Not endurance or lung capacity.
    3. I am metabolically healthy yes. Which means no high blood pressure, and my blood work is perfectly normal. I am still overweight. I said this. I've lost 70lbs. I'm not sure what my pictures have to do with anything? Also, I'm 160lbs, my healthy weight starts at 140. Just because I have 30lbs to goal doesn't mean I have 30lbs to be in a healthy weight. Give me a couple months ;)

    and again you are confused...

    you said healthy...you did not specify which type of healthy until you got backed into a corner.

    Xray vs scan was about smoking not overweight...


    and just so you are clear

    healthy is defined as

    a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

    so you can't be "healthy"...your numbers are fine but you are not healthy due to your smoking...your weight is irrelevant in the equation for me but you are insisting that overweight people can't be healthy when in fact they can.

    they can have perfect blood work and bp etc. They can have no diseases and no issues at all...ergo overweight people can be healthy...

    smokers cannot be period...at no point is a smoker healthy...

    Whatever you say girl. You're completely missing the point. By your definition of healthy an overweight person can't be healthy either but you do you.

    No I heard your point but it is a fallacy due to the fact you are confusing the present state of being healthy with the potential to not be healthy. Overweight people can be healthy but be at risk. Smokers by default are not healthy as they are in the process of damaging themselves each time they smoke...even each time they take a puff (coming from an ex smoker of 20 years.

    by the definition of healthy overweight can be healthy...if they are in a state of physical and mental and social well being they are defined as healthy.



    How is being overweight being in a state of physical well being? AND mental?

    Are you for real or just being funny? Overweight is not a health diagnosis.

    Riding in a car increases your chance of death. You aren't dead just because you ride in a car.

    not sure about you @Need2Exerc1se but I do believe that I am done here...

    not gonna say we have a *cough troll cough* but after all of this...I am leaning that way and not gonna feed it any longer.
  • lauracups
    lauracups Posts: 536 Member
    There was nothing positive about high blood pressure, joint pain, chaffing, chronic heartburn. All related to the extra weight. I will never be a swimsuit model but I'm positive about my body not killing me now.
  • Jancandoit7
    Jancandoit7 Posts: 350 Member
    lauracups wrote: »
    There was nothing positive about high blood pressure, joint pain, chaffing, chronic heartburn. All related to the extra weight. I will never be a swimsuit model but I'm positive about my body not killing me now.

    I totally agree- being fat is not healthy, and although I don't think one's self-esteem should be completely tied to one's body weight, I also don't think that positively embracing one's fat body is acceptable or healthy either. My goal isn't to be thin, but simply to be healthy- average to a bit chunky is fine with me- but fat? No-not healthy. I feel much better having lost only 15 pounds! (goal is 40 pounds). I'm 60 now, and can honestly say that when I was younger, I was not affected by some excessive weight the way I am now- my joints don't like it one bit.
  • GOT_Obsessed
    GOT_Obsessed Posts: 817 Member
    I am fat.
    I am 85% okay with the way my body looks. I rarely ever think "Yuck, I look ugly."
    I am 0% okay with my pre hypertension blood pressure readings.
    I am 0% okay with the extra pressure on my knee.
  • distinctlybeautiful
    distinctlybeautiful Posts: 1,041 Member
    edited November 2017
    These articles are worth reading in their entirety. I’ve put an excerpt of each below each link.


    https://everydayfeminism.com/2017/05/body-pos-definition-undebatable/

    Body Positivity Actually Has a Specific Definition

    Once upon a time, the phrase “body positive” had a specific meaning – one that signaled to the reader that the content with which they were about to engage was (at least going to attempt) to not be oppressive, harmful, or triggering.

    The term “body positivity” was borne out of treatment for anorexia recovery in 1996, when a psychotherapist and a woman who had personal experience with an eating disorder founded thebodypositive.org.

    The methodology and messaging behind their lectures, workshops, and other resources all centered on messaging about reducing focus on changing body weight through disordered eating and exercise.

    In fact, the first of the core competencies of body positivity is to learn how to “ncover the messages that have influenced your relationships with your body, food, and exercise [and d]evelop a weight-neutral, health-centered approach to self-care [to b]ecome the authority of your own body by sorting out facts from distorted societal myths about health, weight, and identity.”


    https://daretonotdiet.wordpress.com/2017/01/30/is-weight-loss-body-positive/

    Is actively trying to lose weight a body positive act?

    This is where it gets complicated.

    Diet and weight loss culture is not body positive because it is rooted in the belief that fat bodies, bodies that do not conform to the very narrow beauty standards (thin, white, able-bodied, cis-gendered), are wrong, unattractive and/or unhealthy. Diet and weight loss culture simply does not respect the broad diversity of body weights and sizes that exist.


    http://www.bodyposipanda.com/2016/04/stop-showing-me-your-beforeafter-weight.html?m=1

    So I'm asking people, please, think twice before you bring your weight loss talk or your before/after pictures into the body positive community. Not only for those of us who've come through EDs and can be seriously triggered by diet culture, but for everyone who's finally found a safe place away from all that crap. There are millions of communities, pages, and places online where your weight loss will be celebrated beyond measure, where you'll be hailed as a fitspo queen and dubbed a loyal disciple to the deity of dieting. Let those of us who've been damaged from our belief in that deity have this safe space. Stop watering it down to fit your weight loss agenda. Body positivity was started as an underground punk movement, with fat acceptance and radical self love as its main aim (people actually stormed into diet meetings and demanded the group leaders defend their cult-like techniques in the face of all the research that says dieting doesn't work and is harmful, pretty badass huh?). So please, do whatever you want with your body, but understand the culture that you're buying into, and the people who never want to be a part of it again.


    (I don’t know why some of this came out underlined. None of it was underlined in the articles or in my response before I posted.)