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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
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When i could train i really enjoyed lifting heavy. I guess I'm odd in your opinion2
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »If someone says they enjoy working out, one (or more) of the three following situations exists:
1} They're lying
2) They're a masochist
3) They're doing it wrong
This assumes everyone has the exact same goal or reason for working out. They don't.
"working out" does not necessarily mean weight-training to get a competition level physique. If you define working out that way then its just that, your own personal definition. That is great and feel free to talk about your own experience working out and how you feel about it but don't presume to generalize about the entire population you just sound ridiculous if you do that.
My sport of choice is backpacking. My training was designed to largely increase my endurance especially lower body and decrease my weight to allow me to go further. To do this I just did what I liked doing, I went backpacking or hiking. I enjoyed it and pushed my PR in terms of distance per day up each year. I imagine you will no-true-Scotsman me here and just say that isn't working out, but again...that is just because you have something in your own mind when you say "working out" that is not necessarily what others think of it as.
If you are looking for congratulations or adoration or something okay. I assume from your picture you weight lift to improve your physique as a body builder. It looks like you have been very successful you have a very impressive physique. Congratulations, I assume that was your goal and you are meeting your goal. You probably have a lot of useful pointers for achieving that specific goal. That is not my goal, I don't actually want to look like that...I imagine it would be a pain in my *kitten* to maintain. I'm married, I have kids, a technical career and I like to backpack....having big upper body muscles and 8% bodyfat would not help me with any of those things and would take a lot of time I don't really have. It would be a distraction from what I actually care about.
I would distinguish between sports, competitive activities, and hobbies that are rigorous but are generally engaged in for entertainment and activities that are solely intended as exercise and have no general entertainment value. The former tend to be more fun, the latter, not that much fun. Backpacking, fun, 5 miles on the treadmill, not fun.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »This very moment... I'm suffering DOMS from Saturday's back work, and I know I have DOMS from yesterday's squats to look forward to tomorrow before this is completely subsided... and I am going to be hitting chest and shower with my daughter this afternoon, so there's Wednesday's pain to anticipate...
You choose. I might be a masochist? I don't actually enjoy the working out part, but I do like the health and strength. If I could have the benefits without the hard work and pain I would be delighted... but they wouldn't be as valuable would they?
but if you didn't hurt, how would you know that your workout was hard enough to be effective?
Personally, I know that if I don't feel sore, I need to add additional movements or raise the weights more than expected.
By watching your PR go up.
LOL if you can increase your PR without DOMS you are awesome! ... or a noob, or on drugs.
Or doing it right
I'll go with Rippetoe and other pro trainers on this
https://startingstrength.com/article/why-being-sore-doesnt-mean-youre-getting-stronger
And no, he's not alone.
Aha... Not a bidirectional argument. This says DOMS doesn't mean strength increase... that does not translate to pain free equalling strength gains. If it did you could complete in power lifting by driving your couch and playing video games.3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »This very moment... I'm suffering DOMS from Saturday's back work, and I know I have DOMS from yesterday's squats to look forward to tomorrow before this is completely subsided... and I am going to be hitting chest and shower with my daughter this afternoon, so there's Wednesday's pain to anticipate...
You choose. I might be a masochist? I don't actually enjoy the working out part, but I do like the health and strength. If I could have the benefits without the hard work and pain I would be delighted... but they wouldn't be as valuable would they?
but if you didn't hurt, how would you know that your workout was hard enough to be effective?
Personally, I know that if I don't feel sore, I need to add additional movements or raise the weights more than expected.
By watching your PR go up.
LOL if you can increase your PR without DOMS you are awesome! ... or a noob, or on drugs.
Or doing it right
I'll go with Rippetoe and other pro trainers on this
https://startingstrength.com/article/why-being-sore-doesnt-mean-youre-getting-stronger
And no, he's not alone.
Aha... Not a bidirectional argument. This says DOMS doesn't mean strength increase... that does not translate to pain free equalling strength gains. If it did you could complete in power lifting by driving your couch and playing video games.
NO, but it does mean that Most elite/advanced PLers don't experience daily or weekly DOMS.4 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »If someone says they enjoy working out, one (or more) of the three following situations exists:
1} They're lying
2) They're a masochist
3) They're doing it wrong
I tend to agree - I enjoy the results, so I endure the hard work. It is a stretch to say that I "enjoy" pushing heavy things around at 5am when most people are sleeping or running the streets when it is 40 degrees, I can think of thousands of things that would be more enjoyable while I am actually doing it.
If working out was so enjoyable, there wouldn't be so many overweight people, right?
Not if you still can't get your diet under control...
If the general population truly enjoyed exercising and diverted even a small percentage of the time that they invested staring at screens to working out, the ranks of the overweight would be reduced significantly, even without the associated diet restriction. Plus, the associated benefits to their cardiovascular system, the additional muscle development, and improved body composition would be of great benefit to them, even if they remained overweight.
In the gyms I've been a member of, and among people I've known, I've known plenty who seem to enjoy working out (in the sense of lifting heavy things) who would be classed as overweight, likely because their eating is out of control. It's actually quite common, also, for people who exercise a lot (people who aren't high level runners but who train for a marathon, former athletes who are still reasonably active but have less time, so on) to be overweight, because they are used to being able to eat whatever they want.2 -
I guess I met my short term goal of generating some conversation and debate. I agree that I have a personal idea of what "working out" is, and it's fairly specific and obviously not universal.
I too engage in lots of "exercise" like swimming, cross country, downhill, and water skiing, skating, biking, back country hiking etc as recreational activities. I do those things just because they're fun. I "work out" in a gym at the highest intensity I can and then get the hell out... The "work" in workout is (IMHO) an antonym for play...
Lots of things are healthy, fun, exercises... I do many of them too... I work out with goals... part of which is improving my performance and enjoyment of the recreational stuff!1 -
Personally, I've grown to hate the phrase working out, and adopted the term training.
Because, Training has a goal associated other than getting sore.7 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »If someone says they enjoy working out, one (or more) of the three following situations exists:
1} They're lying
2) They're a masochist
3) They're doing it wrong
This assumes everyone has the exact same goal or reason for working out. They don't.
"working out" does not necessarily mean weight-training to get a competition level physique. If you define working out that way then its just that, your own personal definition. That is great and feel free to talk about your own experience working out and how you feel about it but don't presume to generalize about the entire population you just sound ridiculous if you do that.
My sport of choice is backpacking. My training was designed to largely increase my endurance especially lower body and decrease my weight to allow me to go further. To do this I just did what I liked doing, I went backpacking or hiking. I enjoyed it and pushed my PR in terms of distance per day up each year. I imagine you will no-true-Scotsman me here and just say that isn't working out, but again...that is just because you have something in your own mind when you say "working out" that is not necessarily what others think of it as.
If you are looking for congratulations or adoration or something okay. I assume from your picture you weight lift to improve your physique as a body builder. It looks like you have been very successful you have a very impressive physique. Congratulations, I assume that was your goal and you are meeting your goal. You probably have a lot of useful pointers for achieving that specific goal. That is not my goal, I don't actually want to look like that...I imagine it would be a pain in my *kitten* to maintain. I'm married, I have kids, a technical career and I like to backpack....having big upper body muscles and 8% bodyfat would not help me with any of those things and would take a lot of time I don't really have. It would be a distraction from what I actually care about.
I would distinguish between sports, competitive activities, and hobbies that are rigorous but are generally engaged in for entertainment and activities that are solely intended as exercise and have no general entertainment value. The former tend to be more fun, the latter, not that much fun. Backpacking, fun, 5 miles on the treadmill, not fun.
Well arguably if you define "work out" as "any physical activity that is not fun" then yes at that point work outs are not fun. If you then engage in discussion with someone who claims they have fun with their work out then clearly they are not using the same definition.5 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »If someone says they enjoy working out, one (or more) of the three following situations exists:
1} They're lying
2) They're a masochist
3) They're doing it wrong
This assumes everyone has the exact same goal or reason for working out. They don't.
"working out" does not necessarily mean weight-training to get a competition level physique. If you define working out that way then its just that, your own personal definition. That is great and feel free to talk about your own experience working out and how you feel about it but don't presume to generalize about the entire population you just sound ridiculous if you do that.
My sport of choice is backpacking. My training was designed to largely increase my endurance especially lower body and decrease my weight to allow me to go further. To do this I just did what I liked doing, I went backpacking or hiking. I enjoyed it and pushed my PR in terms of distance per day up each year. I imagine you will no-true-Scotsman me here and just say that isn't working out, but again...that is just because you have something in your own mind when you say "working out" that is not necessarily what others think of it as.
If you are looking for congratulations or adoration or something okay. I assume from your picture you weight lift to improve your physique as a body builder. It looks like you have been very successful you have a very impressive physique. Congratulations, I assume that was your goal and you are meeting your goal. You probably have a lot of useful pointers for achieving that specific goal. That is not my goal, I don't actually want to look like that...I imagine it would be a pain in my *kitten* to maintain. I'm married, I have kids, a technical career and I like to backpack....having big upper body muscles and 8% bodyfat would not help me with any of those things and would take a lot of time I don't really have. It would be a distraction from what I actually care about.
I would distinguish between sports, competitive activities, and hobbies that are rigorous but are generally engaged in for entertainment and activities that are solely intended as exercise and have no general entertainment value. The former tend to be more fun, the latter, not that much fun. Backpacking, fun, 5 miles on the treadmill, not fun.
Well arguably if you define "work out" as "any physical activity that is not fun" then yes at that point work outs are not fun. If you then engage in discussion with someone who claims they have fun with their work out then clearly they are not using the same definition.
Honestly, from having looked at intermediate and advanced PL training regimens, the part that looks least fun is the 6 minute rests between sets.0 -
Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)10 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Personally, I've grown to hate the phrase working out, and adopted the term training.
Because, Training has a goal associated other than getting sore.
Amen!0 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)
Well to be unpopular a statement has to be both dumb and controversial. Your first one qualified...this one is more just dumb.13 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »If I could have the benefits without the hard work and pain I would be delighted... but they wouldn't be as valuable would they?
They would to me. They might be less rare, but that wouldn't make me value them less.0 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)
You're ignoring the most important actual reasons
1) To train for war
2) To Make war
Perhaps if you'd phrased it
1) to kill
2) to not die
You might have the makings of a meaningful or intelligent argument.14 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)
Well to be unpopular a statement has to be both dumb and controversial. Your first one qualified...this one is more just dumb.
I take this as an uncalled for personal attack and also dispute it thoroughly. I submit to you that contrary to your statement, dumb opinions tend to be the MOST popular. I give you politics, get rich quick schemes, and 6 days to a six pack programs/devices/diets as easily verified examples.7 -
stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)
You're ignoring the most important actual reasons
1) To train for war
2) To Make war
Perhaps if you'd phrased it
1) to kill
2) to not die
You might have the makings of a meaningful or intelligent argument.
I concur (although I suspect that the desire to kill originated with hunger)0 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)
You're ignoring the most important actual reasons
1) To train for war
2) To Make war
Perhaps if you'd phrased it
1) to kill
2) to not die
You might have the makings of a meaningful or intelligent argument.
I concur (although I suspect that the desire to kill originated with hunger)
Only as a secondary motivation.
Reproduction and shiny objects are historically much more interesting and prevalent motivations.4 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »I guess I met my short term goal of generating some conversation and debate. I agree that I have a personal idea of what "working out" is, and it's fairly specific and obviously not universal.
I too engage in lots of "exercise" like swimming, cross country, downhill, and water skiing, skating, biking, back country hiking etc as recreational activities. I do those things just because they're fun. I "work out" in a gym at the highest intensity I can and then get the hell out... The "work" in workout is (IMHO) an antonym for play...
Lots of things are healthy, fun, exercises... I do many of them too... I work out with goals... part of which is improving my performance and enjoyment of the recreational stuff!
If you are doing many training programs (I'm thinking specifically of running, but this would apply to various weight programs too), you are not supposed to be doing every session at the highest intensity.
Also, it's entirely possible to enjoy a high intensity session or hard work out, depending on the kind of person you are.
And for that matter, a swim training session can be done at a very hard intensity (I personally don't find those fun, but some might).1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)
You're ignoring the most important actual reasons
1) To train for war
2) To Make war
Perhaps if you'd phrased it
1) to kill
2) to not die
You might have the makings of a meaningful or intelligent argument.
I concur (although I suspect that the desire to kill originated with hunger)
Only as a secondary motivation.
Reproduction and shiny objects are historically much more interesting and prevalent motivations.
I can't debate that. I don't disagree!
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jamesakrobinson wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Haha If you liked debating that, how's this for stirring the pot.
There are only two valid reasons for a human to run. (from an evolutionary standpoint at least but probably could be extrapolated to today)
1) to catch food
2) not to BE food
And go! (this is bound to be REALLY unpopular!)
Well to be unpopular a statement has to be both dumb and controversial. Your first one qualified...this one is more just dumb.
I take this as an uncalled for personal attack and also dispute it thoroughly. I submit to you that contrary to your statement, dumb opinions tend to be the MOST popular. I give you politics, get rich quick schemes, and 6 days to a six pack programs/devices/diets as easily verified examples.
You are having a spot of fun, I am having a spot of fun. Don't pretend you are in here for something productive when you make posts talking about "stirring the pot". Always fascinated me how people who come in making blustery and arrogant statements and wanting to "stir things up" end up having the thinnest skin. Relax man, I think you know you are saying some pithy and daft things to get a reaction (you are posting under this thread title after all) so don't be all bunched up when you get a few. Me making fun of your stated ideas is not the same thing as a personal attack by the way, it is me laughing at what you are saying.7
This discussion has been closed.
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