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Do diets work?
Replies
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Geez, you people - I ate over 1000 guilt-free calories at dinner Valentine's day (including half an adorable heart-shaped flourless chocolate cake) but I'm not even in the ballpark!3
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Tacklewasher wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »Valentine’s dinner here as well, probably not super accurate. Samosa was definitely bigger, rice portion was definitely smaller. Doesn’t include the beer or whiskey (logged under my vices category)
Lightweight...
:devil:
hrmph. that's not what my scale told me.
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Doing Valentines dinner tonight, so Prime rib at the Keg.
I'll blow 1000 cals out of the water.
Should be ~1250 for the food and 250-300 for wine.
Challenge accepted. My dinner from Valentine's Day (not exact, used equivalents/approximations since they don't provide calorie info):
Great. Now I have to drink more to keep up with @AnvilHead
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I’m keeping track of my macros, and calcium and iron levels.5
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I’m keeping track of my macros, and calcium and iron levels.
And you are counting your calories hence the thread you created....
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10643362/to-full-to-fit-in-my-calories-before-bedtime/p1
"Any suggestions? Already at 1400 calories with 1300 to go, I stop eating at 6pm so I can get to bed by 9pm! Can only sleep on an empty stomach!! On an extremely high carb low fat diet! Have been having trouble getting in those calories!"8 -
I’m keeping track of my macros, and calcium and iron levels.
I'm guessing thats a response to my post, as I said before, you are at least counting your calories and your protein, or else you wouldn't come to about the same calories every night, or eat edemame beans so frequently in portions that vary by day to bring your protein up to a similar higher level. (I also notice you have now closed your diary so people cant see)
Keeping track of your macros is all well and good, and even if by some "random" chance your calories almost always *happened* to come to approximately the same amount daily, you are still tracking at least your macros, which is whats called a diet.
Here is what a diet is:
Dieting, the deliberate selection of food to control body weight or nutrient intake.
So, the problem comes when you are on a diet, and start saying diets dont work and then tell people you'll have to watch your calories if you don't eat like me, claim you dont have to keep track of your food, etc. etc. Its a collection of strange things to say when you are in fact on a very highly tracked diet too, far more closely tracked than the average person I've seen here, and it completely negates your above claims.
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Diets in the sense of trying to loose weight is different then diets as to how and how much you eat. I can’t separate the fact that I have to get more calories in to achieve how many grams of protein I need to get in to stay healthy according to research! So I need to get a certain amount of calories in to get to 100 grams of protein in a day to get to 1/2 gram of protein per 1 lb of body weight! Just started MFP and never ever kept track of anything I ate before. I find this very interesting and I guess I’m just trying different ways of eating macros to see what makes me have more energy and feel better. So my goal is not to loose or gain weight.7
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Diets in the sense of trying to loose weight is different then diets as to how and how much you eat. I can’t separate the fact that I have to get more calories in to achieve how many grams of protein I need to get in to stay healthy according to research! So I need to get a certain amount of calories in to get to 100 grams of protein in a day to get to 1/2 gram of protein per 1 lb of body weight! Just started MFP and never ever kept track of anything I ate before. I find this very interesting and I guess I’m just trying different ways of eating macros to see what makes me have more energy and feel better. So my goal is not to loose or gain weight.
All protein is 4 calories per gram...
When you're not in a deficit, it's easier to meet minimum protein and fat requirements to maintain good health. You have to work harder to have a nutritionally balanced diet in a deficit. Maintaining your weight requires you to have an energy balance, whether you track or not, your body will let you know what you've been doing.6 -
Also my diary is open, and I say diets don’t work because how do you explain why we have a obesity problem in our country now that so many more people are working out and “dieting “ then let’s say 30 years ago. So dieting to loose weight by cutting calories then going back to how you ate previously is not working.15
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Also my diary is open, and I say diets don’t work because how do you explain why we have a obesity problem in our country now that so many more people are working out and “dieting “ then let’s say 30 years ago. So dieting to loose weight by cutting calories then going back to how you ate previously is not working.
Because eating how you ate previously is how people got fat in the first place.
Eating a restricted diet is something people "do" to lose weight. When they've lost weight they think the diet is over so they go back to what they did before - they put on more weight as their caloric requirements (as a smaller person) are less, but "how they ate before" means eating calories more than sufficient for a bigger person.8 -
Often the diet (to lose weight) works, but when people stop "dieting" for many reasons. (One example)When they reach their goal weight and return to old eating habits, therefore gaining weight, it's these eating habits that don't work, not the diet.2
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So dieting to loose weight by cutting calories then going back to how you ate previously is not working.
This is not how a diet must work. You are creating a strawman and saying it doesn't work, that's silly.
If someone was eating in a way that caused them to gain weight before, obviously they won't go back to exactly how they were eating (I think people often make bigger changes, but understanding why they were overeating and how to avoid it is important). Different maintenance plans will work for different people, and it's easy to overeat in our society for lots of reasons.
If someone chooses to follow a WFPB diet for weight control/weight loss (as some push), that too is a diet.3 -
So dieting to loose weight by cutting calories then going back to how you ate previously is not working.
Yes, that does not work. And those who do that find themselves right back in the same situation. Part of weight/fat loss is learning new habits and how to eat sustainably. That is where measuring and logging can be a great tool.
One comes to understand diet, nutrition, and how the energy balance equation, CICO, affects weight loss and gain. Those that apply that knowledge can easily keep the weight off. Those that depend on gimmick "diets" to lose weight but don't learn the fundamentals are destined to repeat the process.
But not all loose weight by calorie control and then go back to how they ate previously. For you to state that as absolute is a ridiculous strawman assertion as lemurcat pointed out.
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So dieting to loose weight by cutting calories then going back to how you ate previously is not working.
Yes, that does not work. And those who do that find themselves right back in the same situation. Part of weight/fat loss is learning new habits and how to eat sustainably. That is where measuring and logging can be a great tool.
One comes to understand diet, nutrition, and how the energy balance equation, CICO, affects weight loss and gain. Those that apply that knowledge can easily keep the weight off. Those that depend on gimmick "diets" to lose weight but don't learn the fundamentals are destined to repeat the process.
But not all loose weight by calorie control and then go back to how they ate previously. For you to state that as absolute is a ridiculous strawman assertion as lemurcat pointed out.
So much this. Years ago I went to a dietician to lose 25 lbs. I lost it and looked great, but slowly put it back on. I commented on this to my husband and he said "of course, that's how it works. She wants you to keep coming back for the rest of your life because you can't lose weight without her". On these forums I've learned about weight loss from knowlegable people that are so generous with their time. I now know why I lose weight and how to keep it off. Been here 5 yrs. Thanks guys.12 -
many people also think that when they lose weight they can go back to eating the way they were. many dont know that you have to figure out what your maintenance calories are to maintain that new weight. which is why many people lose and gain over and over again.I gained weight because I ate more than I burned because I became less active. I was a healthy weight and thin all my life until I hit my mid 30s.
I started slowly gaining weight over that time. once I got to a point I couldnt deal with the extra almost 70 lbs I said enough was enough and started being more active and counting calories. The weigh started coming off. for me I have a metabolic disorder so even with counting calories my weight doesnt come off at the rate MFP says it will and Im ok with that. it does come off just slower than probably most people here.even eating less and burning more its slow.But I know if I went back to being sedentary and eating the way I was I would gain it all back again and I now know what I have to do to prevent that from happening. I have to make a change in my lifestyle to be successful.4 -
Diets in the sense of trying to loose weight is different then diets as to how and how much you eat. I can’t separate the fact that I have to get more calories in to achieve how many grams of protein I need to get in to stay healthy according to research! So I need to get a certain amount of calories in to get to 100 grams of protein in a day to get to 1/2 gram of protein per 1 lb of body weight! Just started MFP and never ever kept track of anything I ate before. I find this very interesting and I guess I’m just trying different ways of eating macros to see what makes me have more energy and feel better. So my goal is not to loose or gain weight.
Right when you are eating vegetarian foods only its tougher to get high protein, and what you are doing is great, I'd say very good for health in general when I last looked at your diet, but even though you aren't trying to lose weight its still a diet!Also my diary is open, and I say diets don’t work because how do you explain why we have a obesity problem in our country now that so many more people are working out and “dieting “ then let’s say 30 years ago. So dieting to loose weight by cutting calories then going back to how you ate previously is not working.
Well those are more specific statements, the last one I completely agree with. We can't 100% accurately explain it, but just because there are more people obese does not mean diets don't work, though if someone were to diet then switch back to pre-diet change food levels, yes that wont work and probably is one of the biggest parts of the problem. Easily available calories, especially those with low nutrient density are I'd say the biggest part of the problem, but again, you CAN eat them if you make room in your calories for the day, just maybe not as much.
So if we take a one person sample, me for example. For what I eat, if I cut out all the low nutrient density foods I switch to losing weight, but, I have a tough time doing it due to social pressures and easily available work foods. I think a lot of people may be in a similar boat just like I am, though I am bumped up from "overweight" to "obese" category because of my muscle mass from strength training lifting, which is not the average case.
I'd be 100% fine if I stuck to my normal non supplemented diet (which does contain lots of meats), and I have done this many times and gone through many gain/cut cycles doing it. Its really all these holiday office chocolates, snacks and sweets and beers that paired with my past reliance on my ability to shrug them off due to high activity and muscle mass, they really take their toll when I am not as active and probably partially age. So I have to reduce for a while again...and if I keep switching back to eating them, I will gain again. So yup, it "won't work" in the long run if that's all I do, but that's because I'm making poor choices on additional foods again, not because something is "wrong" with the core foods of my average diet or because changing your diet for the long run doesn't work. The only thing that "doesn't work" is doing it for a little while and then going back to the same habits.
PS. On my profile is an outline of one of my cutting cycles where I demonstrated the common myth here that you cannot increase lifts and gain strength while losing weight was false: -10lbs in one month, gains in all tracked lifts. But also on my myth busting one case "study" loss variation trials that year, for several months I included 4 foods that a few people here and there were insisting one could not eat every day and lose: coffee, chocolate, bacon and beer. I ate them every single day for a solid month, and most days for several surrounding months, I still lost weight each month. I just made sure to fit them in my caloric balance for the day, and it worked. So again, diets DO work...until you go back to ignoring your diet and eating your old habits
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Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
The losses and gains are created by the amount of calories that one consumes relative to how much energy one is using. Yeah, some calorie-dense foods like burgers can make it more difficult to meet a specific calorie goal (assuming one is trying to reduce calories), but this can be adjusted for by planning other meals around the higher calorie meal or choosing a lower calorie option (not every burger has to have 1,000+ calories). There are lots of successful people here who are meeting their health, weight, and fitness goals and still having foods like burgers (or pizza or pasta or whatever food you want to believe is so inherently harmful).
Choosing to have a burger (or a cookie or a slice of pizza or a glass of wine) isn't "crashing and burning," it's just life. And in the context of a diet that is meeting your nutritional needs (which is what everyone here is recommending), there's nothing harmful about it.
If someone is a volume eater and wants to have larger servings of lower calorie food, that's perfectly understandable. But not everyone is like that. Some people like smaller servings of more calorie-dense food (or, like many, they mix different types of food).
I legitimately don't understand why someone would care about the strategies that people use to meet the goals of meeting nutritional needs/calorie goals, having satiating meals, and enjoying their lives.
Your strategy may not be my strategy. Why is that a problem?
Its not a problem - the OP asked about diet I told her better to be fit ---- a diet(in the context she was using it) is something you eventually go off of and untimely most like fail - fitness is a lifestyle a diet in her context is not a lifestyle its temporary fix to get her to a short term unsustainable goal without lifestyle changes
Many members here have lost weight and and are maintaining successfully despite consuming foods you deem to be "crap" and ended up with excellent health markers and feeling satisfied both physically and mentally...now here's the interesting part...some of these same people have achieved this *all without picking up a single barbell or going on a single walk or run*
Fitness enhances a healthy lifestyle but is not the be all and end all; Lack of exercise does not hinder weight loss. Adhering to your calorie allotment is the only key.
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Well the term "diet" is usually used in a sense that is assumed to be temporary, like when someone says "I'm on a diet". But when someone says "I've changed my diet" to me, that has a whole different connotation and is assumed to be more permanent.
And I'm not sure what OP means by "Do diets work". Sure, they can help you lose weight and achieve your goal so therefore they can technically "work". And some people can do the yo-yo thing and be perfectly happy with that, so that would work for them. If OP means do they help you lose weight, keep it off, and be healthy, then no, a lot of times they don't work if they are just a temporary fix.
But as others have said, CICO is not necessarily a diet. Some people use it religiously in the long term to maintain or gain weight. It also can be used as a tool to understand and adopt better eating habits. And really if you are over weight and you don't change any of your habits in the long term, you'll have a hard time keeping weight off.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Looks like we're never going to find out if it was a bot or a real life person.
Exactly the same behavior as last time... as soon as his/it's humanity was questioned... BAM! no more posts
Except they didn't deactivate, they were, uhm, shown the door.
This is going to sound completely stupid, but how do you know it's a bot? Or rather how would a non human even be able to post like that?
You guys can all loudly laugh at me if that question is seriously as stupid as it sounds...
In the previous thread, it was a combination of things,
Holding to mutually exclusive concepts and arguing them(with sourcing)
Presenting ideas in a context apparently devoid of experience
were the two at the forefront that twigged me to make the guess.
The kicker was that as soon as I made the guess(in a manner that would be entirely ignored by a person who was as confused as the poster appeared)... I asked "Are you turing complete" which is an industry phrase. The poster stopped and deactivated immediately.8 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.13 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.13 -
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
Do we need "optimal nutrition" in order to reduce our risk for disease and maintain a healthy weight?
It's not like there are just two choices -- constantly strive for optimal nutrition *or* eat a poor diet. There's a whole range of ways to eat between those two choices.14 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
Why must it be one or the other?
https://bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html/11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
Do we need "optimal nutrition" in order to reduce our risk for disease and maintain a healthy weight?
It's not like there are just two choices -- constantly strive for optimal nutrition *or* eat a poor diet. There's a whole range of ways to eat between those two choices.
Because moderation just isn't sexy :ohwell:13 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
If you figure out what optimal nutrition is please let the rest of us in on your secret. There really isn't such a thing but a range of acceptable. Attempting this idea of optimal nutrition has caused a lot of people to develop EDs.14 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
I don't strive for optimal nutrition and health, AND I don't eat a poor diet AND I'm not inactive. I think that was kind of the point of @WinoGelato post. Your diet and exercise don't have to be perfect. Once you get what you need, you don't get bonus points or some kind of "great health guarantee" for eating nothing but nutritious food or perfectly hitting your macros. It's that "either/or" "sinner/saint" "healthy/junk" false dichotomy that gets so many people in trouble.
If I were to strive for optimal health and everything that seems to include, I would end up lying on the floor in my workout clothes, surrounded by empty pints of ice cream and bags of chips, covered in ice packs and heating pads, marathon watching The Bachelor.
So I just try to do better, not perfect. An extra serving of veggies, an extra 5 minutes added to my walk. Many people have lived long and healthy lives by doing just that
15 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
If it's primarily for nutrition, why is it called "MyFITNESSPal? I thought fitness was a big part of it all---my bad.6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
what prevents someone from getting cancer? I would like to know. reversing it? sure if chemo or radiation or other types of treatments put it into remission sure but it can still come back at any time.Ive know healthy people who ate healthy all their lives,were active and still got cancer,ive known many who had throat cancer and never smoked a day in their life. the other things yes its very possible to prevent, but some heart diseases cannot be reversed,some are genetic.6 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!
"So step away from the equipment people" you go ahead and do that - I will keep training 2 a days
Only 2 a days? Why not 3? Why not 4? Wouldn’t working out more be better?
You mentioned going out with friends, why? Shouldn’t you be working out? Optimizing your lean mean fuel burning machine?
Do you have a financial budget? Save, spend on essentials, spend on discretionary items? Why the discretionary items? Why not just save everything that isn’t needed for your basic life requirements? Wouldn’t that be better? More financially “fit”?
And yes I realize I still have about 10 pages to go and this thread has likely taken many turns since this post but this always strikes me when posters say we should always be striving for optimal nutrition... but doesn’t that apply to other parts of our lives? I could work more, make more money, save more money, but then I would have less time to hang out with my kids. I could volunteer more, but then I would have less time to visit a friend going through a rough patch with her husband. Life isn’t about striving for optimal or perfection with every decision we make - it’s about balance.
MyFitness Pal is primarily for nutrition, which is why many people will talk optimizing nutrition.
I am not sure where you live, but in my country, we have an epidemic of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, among other chronic diseases. Many of these diseases could be prevented and possibly reversed if people began striving for optimal nutrition.
Improvements in diet have a "step wise" improvement in health. The more you put it into it, the more you get out of it.
Personally, striving for optimal nutrition and health gives me far more joy then eating a poor diet or being inactive.
what prevents someone from getting cancer? I would like to know. reversing it? sure if chemo or radiation or other types of treatments put it into remission sure but it can still come back at any time.Ive know healthy people who ate healthy all their lives,were active and still got cancer,ive known many who had throat cancer and never smoked a day in their life. the other things yes its very possible to prevent, but some heart diseases cannot be reversed,some are genetic.
Yeah, I was diagnosed with (thank G-d, highly-treatable, highly-survivable, caught-it-early, non-aggressive) bladder cancer. I was going down the checklist of risk factors and don't have a single one on that list. The lesions have been removed and I just finished BCG treatment to (hopefully!) keep it from coming back, but I don't know a thing I should have done differently to prevent it.
Note: I also don't fall into any of the non-preventable risk categories like being male, over 55, of a certain racial/ethnic background, etc.11
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