April 2018 Monthly Running Challenge
Replies
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4/1-14.5 miles
4/2 Rest Day
4/3 5.7 miles (4 on dreadmill, 1.7 with Stella)
4/4-30 minute elliptical and 30 minute strength
4/5-8 miles
4/6-Yoga and rest
4/7-11.6 miles (10+1.6 with Stella)
4/8-16 miles
4/9-Rest day with yoga
4/10-5.8 miles+yoga
4/11-8 miles w/ 6 @ tempo
69.6/180
Yesterday evening was the first warm and dry day we have had in ages. People were flocking to the bike path in full force. It made me kind of miss the solitude I have had running for the past several months. I did 8 miles with 6 at tempo pace of 7:45-8:00. This is slightly slower than half marathon pace, but I was surprised to see that my heart rate stayed pretty comfortably below thresh hold. I feel like maybe I am still making some gains in cardio fitness. If only my hamstrings would get the memo.
This evening will be the first day when temps will be above the comfort range, around 70F. It's probably a good thing because it's likely to get up there on race day in May and it's been quite a while since I have been able to run in those conditions. We are also supposed to have 20-30 mph winds, so tonight's 10 easy miles might not be as easy as I am used to. Looking forward to it nonetheless.
@MNLittleFinn and @7lenny7 - If I don't get a chance to post again, I just wanted to say good luck tomorrow/Saturday. I can't wait to hear your race reports!
@skippygirlsmom - So glad to see you back and hear that you are feeling a lot better, even if you are not following doctor's orders! Take it slow and easy. And go show that speed bump who is boss!5 -
greyparks206 wrote: »Today was a very, very bad running day. My plan was to run a quick-ish 1.5 miles. My hamstrings were still sore from whatever I did to myself on Monday, but I expected to work out of it the way I did yesterday. WRONG. I haven’t hurt this bad during a run since I first started my c25k program back in December. I looked and whimpered my way through 1.5 miles in about 20 minutes. My knees are hurting so badly that I was nearly in tears by the time I finished. Maybe I altered my gait in response to my stiff hamstrings and put too much stress on my knees? I don’t know. I’ll do ice and ibuprofen tonight. Fingers crossed that tomorrow goes better. My very first 5k is in only 10 days.
Have any of you ever experienced something like this before?
Goal: 40 miles
Today: 1.5 miles
Total: 13.5 miles
Very good example of why you need to be very flexible in your training plans. Let your body dictate what you do for the day, not some piece of paper.
Another lesson, learn to run with a good gait and always strive to maintain it. If your body is so weak (illness, injury, soreness, ect) that you cannot maintain a good running gait, then it's better to take a rest day or just walk, than to force your body to do something wrong and cause further injury.
Remember: you don't become a better runner from running. You become a better runner from the rest and recovery after you run.4 -
@PastorVincent great photo! You look like a Ninja runner.
I do have a black belt in American Freestyle Karate, am 2nd Green in Aikido, and ... well, you get the point.
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Hey y'all! I'm back on MFP after a three year "hiatus". I'm not exactly *new* to running, but I got lazy and stopped about three years ago. Not quite sure how much weekly mileage I plan to take on, but I'm ready to do this challenge!
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4/1 = rest day...sort of (moving day)
4/2 = 9.5 miles
4/3 = Vinyasa yoga class and 3.5 miles
4/4 = 3 dreadmill Miles and 20 minutes strength training
4/5 = travel for work
4/6 = travel for work
4/7 = 13 miles (Outlaw 1/2 Race)
4/8 = rest day
4/9 = 7 miles and strength training
4/10 = yoga class
4/11 = 10 miles
4/12 = 3.5 miles
215 posts behind - gesh. Life has just been too crazy to keep up this month.
April mileage goal = 125 miles / April miles complete = 49.5 miles
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April Goal: 110 miles
4/1: 6.2 miles
4/3: 4.6 miles
4/4: 4.0 miles (intervals)
4/5: 4.2 miles
4/8: 11.5 miles
4/10: 4.3 miles (tempo?)
4/11: 5.1 miles
4/12: 5.5 miles
45.4/110 miles completed
I ran before work again this morning and got my scheduled 5.5 miles in. Today's run was much better than yesterday's. I did have some coffee and drank a little more water too so I was more awake, better hydrated and not totally fasted (I use cream and sugar so not a ton of calories, but some). I was able to keep the first 4 miles under 12 min/mile so I felt good about that. I was a little frustrated because my watch shows that my overall pace was 11:59, but when it went over to Garmin Connect and Strava it show 12:00. Either way, if I can hold that pace I will be able to easily finish my HM in May under the 3:30 cutoff and I am hoping that I will be able to improve my pace to closer to 11:00 before then. I'm still not a morning person, but it was a nice 66F and the wind wasn't too bad. It is supposed to be 95-97F this afternoon with 22+ mph winds, so I am really glad I ran early. I didn't have time for yoga this morning when I got home, but I am planning on some lunchtime yoga in place of my usual morning yoga.
Good luck this weekend to @MNLittleFinn , @7lenny7 and @garygse and anyone else racing that I may have missed. I can't wait to read the race reports.
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4/01 - REST
4/02 - 5.19 (trail)
4/03 - 3.39
4/04 - 5.38 (trail)
4/05 - 4
4/06 - 3
4/07 - 10.62
4/08 - REST
4/09 - 5.13 (trail)
4/10 - 4.9
4/11 - 4.1 (trail)
Took it easy on the trail last night. I'll probably do a light 3 later today. I might do it again Friday or maybe rest Friday depending on how twitchy I am.
TWO SLEEPS TO RACE DAY.
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Good luck on your race @fitoverfortymom !0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »Total - 27.5miles
Target - 40 miles
To Complete - 12.5 miles
1/4 - Rest
2/4 - Rest
3/4 - Rest
4/4 - 4.1 miles
5/4 - 4.9 miles
6/4 - 4 miles
7/4 - 3.1 miles. First park run with my daughter
7/4 - 5.22 miles. Evening run.
8/4 - 2.01 miles
9/4 - Rest
10/4 - 4.21 miles
Miles nicely ticking along at the moment. The hardest thing is that I am doing low heart rate training, which means my average pace is at least 4 minutes a mile slower than I would normally run! Means even 4 miles is a long run in terms of time!
Keep up the good work all.
Can I ask what the purpose is? I've seen people mentioning staying in certain heartrate zones, but I'm not entirely sure why.
@zdyb23456 I'm not sure if this is what @Wen2Run is doing, but there are some who follow Dr. Phil Maffetone's MAF (Maximal Aerobic Function) training techniques. It's a formula using 180-age and further adjusted for fitness level, medications, and medical conditions (maybe I'm missing something else). I haven't had patience to keep going for more than a couple months at such a slow pace, but I made good progress during that time even. I will probably go back to that at some point because as soon as I started going faster, progress definitely slowed down. The idea is to improve aerobic capacity by running at your MAF heart rate, which will seem slow for awhile (months).
@Midwester I am currently following the Maffetone method of training
. Which means that all of my runs should be at a HR of (180-37) then an extra -10 because I take medication every day and have quite a history of injury.
As @Midwester said, the idea is that you train your aerobic system to be more efficient because that is the system which burns fat as a fuel source. In endurance running you are going to be relying on that for 99% of your fuel.
So currently, I'm running at a slow average pace of 14 minute miles to keep my HR below 133, but as my aerobic system improves, I will have to increase my pace to keep my HR at 133. Which then in turn means that I can go further, in the same time for the same over all energy output.
I'm currently training for back to back 37.5 milers, so speed isn't really my concern, what I want to be able to do is run for 6 or 7 hours non-stop without injury and without hitting the wall.
You will often hear people mention training in zones 1 to 6 for varying intensity but the Maffetone method, just uses two zones aerobic (MAF and below) and anaerobic (MAF+) All training should be done aerobic until you have done some serious base building and then you can work anaerobic training into it.
But it is hard, which sounds really strange but running slow when you know you can run faster is a killer. I have to remove all pace and speed info off my watch for training because seeing the slow paced annoyed me. It's a total ego killer, people will pass you all the time on a run. I clocked up a 2 hour 8 miler at the end of march, that was probably 40 minutes longer than it would normally take me.
A lot of good stuff here. I wanted to address the bolded part tho. There is a little more to it than just pace and heart rate for "fat based running".
So at rest, your body prefers to use carbohydrates (or sugar) as a fuel source. But as carbohydrate stores are lowered, as long as you are within your aerobic zone, your body is forced to rely more on fat stores than your carbohydrate stores. So the 2 best methods to address this is either running longer or begin your running in a "carbohydrate deficit" (or fasted) state.
Long runs in your aerobic zone that last for 90-150 minutes target your body to train to use more of a fat percentage. You begin your run relying more on sugar as the source of fuel, then as you get past 60 minutes to 90 minutes, your body is relying more on fat.
The other way, is to start in a fasted state. In other words, don't eat anything for 6 or 8 hours, then run. And don't refuel with carbs during the run. This is known as carbohydrate deficit training.
For the benefit of others reading this, let me explain something. So earlier I said that aerobic running is "creating energy with oxygen". You are creating energy from one fuel source into another. The energy you muscles need in order to contract is a chemical called andenosine tri-phosphate (or ATP for short). Your body uses different systems (Glycolysis, Krebs Cycle, Electron Transport Chain) to break down sugar and fat to smaller chemicals that are used to form ATP. Some things like Krebs and ETC requires oxygen to achieve this. Systems like Glycolysis do not require oxygen. So some systems are dubbed "aerobic" cause they require oxygen while others are dubbed "anaerobic" because they do not require oxygen. Some systems are used to break down sugar so ATP are formed. Other systems can do the same ATP production but with fat as the fuel source. However, only sugar can be broken down and converted into ATP without oxygen. Therefore, in order to use fat as a fuel source, you cannot run at a pace faster than what your aerobic fitness can handle.6 -
1/4-3.0
2/3-rest
3/4-20.0
4/4-rest
5/4-rest
6/4-3.8
7/4-2
8/4-rest
9/4-3.1
10/4-4.9
11/4-rest
12/4-2.8
39.8/100 Miles
Running London Marathon on 22nd April - www.justgiving.com/tigercubslindfield7 -
4/1-9 miles
4/2-chest/back/legs
4/3-2.5 miles
4/5-5.5 miles
4/6-2.5 miles
4/8-9 miles
4/9-2.5 miles + shoulders and arms
4/11-4 miles
35/75 miles4 -
@fitoverfortymom and @garygse -Good luck on your races this weekend!1
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Long runs in your aerobic zone that last for 90-150 minutes target your body to train to use more of a fat percentage. You begin your run relying more on sugar as the source of fuel, then as you get past 60 minutes to 90 minutes, your body is relying more on fat.
@Stoshew71, Is this still true if you consume carbs while you run? I know you cannot digest fast enough to make up for the burn, so wondering if you are hurting your usage of fat but drinking Gatorade or eating or whatever.
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PastorVincent wrote: »
Long runs in your aerobic zone that last for 90-150 minutes target your body to train to use more of a fat percentage. You begin your run relying more on sugar as the source of fuel, then as you get past 60 minutes to 90 minutes, your body is relying more on fat.
@Stoshew71, Is this still true if you consume carbs while you run? I know you cannot digest fast enough to make up for the burn, so wondering if you are hurting your usage of fat but drinking Gatorade or eating or whatever.
Because your body prefers to use carbs as the fuel source because the process to break down sugar into pyruvate in the glycolysis pathway which is then used by the Krebs Cycle to oxidize the acetyl-CoA to form ATP is much simpler than the process that breaks down fat lipids into the fatty acids and glycerol which then are further broken down acetyl-CoA in order for the Krebs Cycle to create ATP. So if you are externally (through diet or consumption) supplying more carbohydrates, the body will prefer to use that as the fuel source especially if you are putting your body in a quick demand for energy (such as running).
That's why I don't suggest newer runners to supplement on the run with things like gels and Gu's or even Gatorade especially for shorter runs 30-60 minutes. Your body just doesn't need it. You have plenty of stored energy to get you through a short run. Newer runners need to develop that aerobic base where they get used to running more aerobically efficient. Aerobic efficient means things like: 1) forcing your body to take in more oxygen from the lungs into the blood (through increased hemoglobin production), 2) increasing the rate the blood flows oxygen to your muscles (increased heart strength & capillary production), 3) increasing the capability for the muscle cell to take in more oxygen and use it to produce ATP (increasing the number and size of your mitochondria). All of those things happen by running longer and longer at that Easy pace. And all of those things stop happening when you go beyond that and start relying more on anaerobic energy production. Thus the importance of running easy most of the time. To sum it all up, if you want to increase energy production, get your body used to using oxygen better, not supplementing more sugar that your body can't even really use without oxygen. [because Glycolysis alone produces only 2 ATP while the Krebs Cycle produces 32-38 ATP]
The flip side of this. The process to use fat as a fuel source and break it down into the more simpler chemical acetyl-CoA so ATP can be produced is very complicated. Also, your brain not only prefers carbs, but requires it. When long term carbohydrate deficits occur (i.e. low carbohydrate diets), your brain is forced to turn fatty acids into a chemical compound very similar to glucose called ketones. Thus ketogenesis diets and workouts. When your body is glucose deprived and ketogenesis has not kicked in (it takes a few weeks to do so) your brain goes into a panic and starts slowing down your activity. The feeling of "hitting the wall" occurs. Some people following a low carbohydrate diet and becoming what is called "fat adapted" will call this 2-3 week stage as the Atkins Flu. You become very sluggish, and in extreme conditions even see visions or even pass out. So if you are trying to run a workout at a certain performance pace, then maybe you don't want to fast or be in a carbohydrate deficit state. Or if you don't like that sluggish feeling 70 minutes into your run, then a little swallow of Gatorade (and even spitting it out) is enough to trick your brain that plenty of carbs are on the way and kick that energy level back forward.
But for a simple long run of 90 minutes where the goal is just run easy the whole way, I wouldn't suggest supplementing, unless you're doing some kind of "at pace" workout, OR you're trying to figure out what types of carbs work best for your body on the run.
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I sure do love seeing @Stoshew71 posting regularly again! Sharing so much great (and factual) information for new and experienced runners!5
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To flip it back again for the "fat adapted runners"....
Why even bother to train to use fat as a fuel source if my body prefers sugar and can perform "better"?
1) There's more carbon atoms in a gram of fat than in a gram of glucose (sugar). Therefore, even though the process is more complicated to break it down into ATP, you can wield a lot more energy from fat than you do from sugar.
2) You can store way more fat in your body than sugar (glucose stored as glycogen). For shorter races, it's no big deal. But for something like marathon training and ultra-marathon training, you rather rely on fat more than glucose.
Fat adaption running (and some folks can explain it a lot better than me like @JessicaMcB) means that through diet and training, you have gotten to the point where ketone production is high and you no longer have to rely on carbs. I studied it a little bit, but don't follow it like others do. Many elites especially on the ultra scene have become fat adapted.3 -
4/1 - 4/8 ADK vacation, no running!
4/9 5miles
4/10 7miles
4/11 5miles
4/12 5.6miles
4 miles then 6 strides. My 4 miles were slower than the last few days, but my 30 second strides were around 6:15pace. Going to do my 10 miles tomorrow because Saturday I’ll be sitting around at a swim meet all morning.
3/18/2018 Shamrock half marathon
3/24/2018 Don't Sit on Colon Cancer 5K
10/7/2018 Crawlin Crab half marathon
10/13/2018 Joggin for Frogmen 5K
11/18/2018 Norfolk Harbor half marathon2 -
Interesting.PastorVincent wrote: »
Long runs in your aerobic zone that last for 90-150 minutes target your body to train to use more of a fat percentage. You begin your run relying more on sugar as the source of fuel, then as you get past 60 minutes to 90 minutes, your body is relying more on fat.
@Stoshew71, Is this still true if you consume carbs while you run? I know you cannot digest fast enough to make up for the burn, so wondering if you are hurting your usage of fat but drinking Gatorade or eating or whatever.
Because your body prefers to use carbs as the fuel source because the process to break down sugar into pyruvate in the glycolysis pathway which is then used by the Krebs Cycle to oxidize the acetyl-CoA to form ATP is much simpler than the process that breaks down fat lipids into the fatty acids and glycerol which then are further broken down acetyl-CoA in order for the Krebs Cycle to create ATP. So if you are externally (through diet or consumption) supplying more carbohydrates, the body will prefer to use that as the fuel source especially if you are putting your body in a quick demand for energy (such as running).
That's why I don't suggest newer runners to supplement on the run with things like gels and Gu's or even Gatorade especially for shorter runs 30-60 minutes. Your body just doesn't need it. You have plenty of stored energy to get you through a short run. Newer runners need to develop that aerobic base where they get used to running more aerobically efficient. Aerobic efficient means things like: 1) forcing your body to take in more oxygen from the lungs into the blood (through increased hemoglobin production), 2) increasing the rate the blood flows oxygen to your muscles (increased heart strength & capillary production), 3) increasing the capability for the muscle cell to take in more oxygen and use it to produce ATP (increasing the number and size of your mitochondria). All of those things happen by running longer and longer at that Easy pace. And all of those things stop happening when you go beyond that and start relying more on anaerobic energy production. Thus the importance of running easy most of the time. To sum it all up, if you want to increase energy production, get your body used to using oxygen better, not supplementing more sugar that your body can't even really use without oxygen. [because Glycolysis alone produces only 2 ATP while the Krebs Cycle produces 32-38 ATP]
The flip side of this. The process to use fat as a fuel source and break it down into the more simpler chemical acetyl-CoA so ATP can be produced is very complicated. Also, your brain not only prefers carbs, but requires it. When long term carbohydrate deficits occur (i.e. low carbohydrate diets), your brain is forced to turn fatty acids into a chemical compound very similar to glucose called ketones. Thus ketogenesis diets and workouts. When your body is glucose deprived and ketogenesis has not kicked in (it takes a few weeks to do so) your brain goes into a panic and starts slowing down your activity. The feeling of "hitting the wall" occurs. Some people following a low carbohydrate diet and becoming what is called "fat adapted" will call this 2-3 week stage as the Atkins Flu. You become very sluggish, and in extreme conditions even see visions or even pass out. So if you are trying to run a workout at a certain performance pace, then maybe you don't want to fast or be in a carbohydrate deficit state. Or if you don't like that sluggish feeling 70 minutes into your run, then a little swallow of Gatorade (and even spitting it out) is enough to trick your brain that plenty of carbs are on the way and kick that energy level back forward.
But for a simple long run of 90 minutes where the goal is just run easy the whole way, I wouldn't suggest supplementing, unless you're doing some kind of "at pace" workout, OR you're trying to figure out what types of carbs work best for your body on the run.
In my case I currently do runs as far as 2 hours I do with no fuel. I can do that at my goal MP without any issues. I have done half marathons at race pace with no fuel. As the weather turns hotter I will have to supplement with water and electrolytes cause I am an extremely heavy sweater.
I have run in the 17-20 mile range without fuel, but I have not done that with any rigorous tracking so not sure on impact yet. My plan for both the upcoming marathon and the ultra to carry Tailwinds and sip that as I go. They are too close now (first week of may) to do much about diet, just wondering if I should have pushed harder into no fuel runs.
I do not run fast though. I do nothing fasted as I use diet to control my glucose levels.
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PastorVincent wrote: »
In my case I currently do runs as far as 2 hours I do with no fuel. I can do that at my goal MP without any issues. I have done half marathons at race pace with no fuel.
I have run in the 17-20 mile range without fuel
And that should be no problem.
MP pace (since it takes you more than an hour to run one) is then way slower than lactate threshold pace, which means that you should be in the aerobic zone. Thus you're able to burn both fat and carbs the entire way through.
I also assume that it takes you more than an hour to do a HM, which then again suggests running slower than LTP. Thus you're still in the aerobic zone and can still burn both fat and carbs.
17-20 miles again, most likely took you more than an hour, so you're going slower than LTP, and are able to use both carbs and fat.
The fact that you're able to run 20 miles without refueling with no perceived problems suggests that you have trained your body very well to use fat for fuel. That or you are running too slow and would benefit from picking up the pace for a little bit on that long run. Which is where the Gatorade or Gu could come in handy. Mixing a mile (or half mile) interval halfway into that long run a few times at a much faster pace. Something a little bit faster than your LTP. If you feel too sluggish to do that, then take in some Gatorade or a Gu packet about 20-30 minutes before you do the intervals.
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