Somebody lectured me about Splenda today
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NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
But it's actually very difficult to use scientific research to prove that something is bad for you - artificial sweeteners have been linked to diabetes and cancer, but scientists aren't rushing to perform this research on humans because that would be unethical and it would also take many years. The research that I have seen (aspartame linked to leukemia, people who drink diet soda significantly more likely to get diabetes than people who drink regular soda, etc.) is so compelling that I wouldn't want for me or anyone I know to be the guinea pig who takes that kind of risk! Not saying it's right to say something to a stranger (I would never do that), but I would compare it to walking up to a stranger and saying not to smoke cigarettes - it's pretty rude and not something I would say, but I can see how someone would want to speak up.
Please link the studies - the only studies that I have seen that show any evidence of these issues have been weak correlation studies that cannot show actual causal factors between the artificial sweeteners and the cancer/disease.
I am referring to the correlation studies. Last year, one found that new moms who reported consuming artificial sweeteners like Equal and Splenda during their pregnancies were twice as likely to have children who were overweight or obese within a year. Yes, this is a correlation study but that's probably a necessity for ethical reasons. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2521471
Again the type of research you're looking for would take years to conduct and it would also be pretty unethical. I hope no researchers out there are asking people to consume artificial sweeteners consistently for years and years to prove that it causes cancer and diabetes - that would be extraordinarily morally wrong.
Knowing what we do know (there are links between artificial sweeteners and a variety of serious health problems),we can all make decisions about what's important to us and where we want to compromise. I know people who smoke and drink knowing that these aren't good health choices, and that's their decision to make. Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to consume artificial sweeteners knowing that at best, they aren't good for me, and at worst, they can cause serious health problems.
This has been done and is occurring on a daily basis in the REAL world - artificial sweeteners have been around for 50-60 years and outside of an occasional allergic reaction, the is not a single solitary piece of evidence that DIRECTLY shows any harm coming from their use.
Where has it been done? Would love to see this, by all means.
Since you missed the point, people all over the world are consuming artificial sweeteners every day and they are not dropping dead from their consumption. There is your test/proof/study that the artificial sweeteners do not cause problems!
People all over the world drink and smoke and eat fried foods every day without dropping dead from their consumption. Is that proof that those things don't cause problems?11 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
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NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
But it's actually very difficult to use scientific research to prove that something is bad for you - artificial sweeteners have been linked to diabetes and cancer, but scientists aren't rushing to perform this research on humans because that would be unethical and it would also take many years. The research that I have seen (aspartame linked to leukemia, people who drink diet soda significantly more likely to get diabetes than people who drink regular soda, etc.) is so compelling that I wouldn't want for me or anyone I know to be the guinea pig who takes that kind of risk! Not saying it's right to say something to a stranger (I would never do that), but I would compare it to walking up to a stranger and saying not to smoke cigarettes - it's pretty rude and not something I would say, but I can see how someone would want to speak up.
Please link the studies - the only studies that I have seen that show any evidence of these issues have been weak correlation studies that cannot show actual causal factors between the artificial sweeteners and the cancer/disease.
I am referring to the correlation studies. Last year, one found that new moms who reported consuming artificial sweeteners like Equal and Splenda during their pregnancies were twice as likely to have children who were overweight or obese within a year. Yes, this is a correlation study but that's probably a necessity for ethical reasons. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2521471
Again the type of research you're looking for would take years to conduct and it would also be pretty unethical. I hope no researchers out there are asking people to consume artificial sweeteners consistently for years and years to prove that it causes cancer and diabetes - that would be extraordinarily morally wrong.
Knowing what we do know (there are links between artificial sweeteners and a variety of serious health problems),we can all make decisions about what's important to us and where we want to compromise. I know people who smoke and drink knowing that these aren't good health choices, and that's their decision to make. Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to consume artificial sweeteners knowing that at best, they aren't good for me, and at worst, they can cause serious health problems.
This has been done and is occurring on a daily basis in the REAL world - artificial sweeteners have been around for 50-60 years and outside of an occasional allergic reaction, the is not a single solitary piece of evidence that DIRECTLY shows any harm coming from their use.
Where has it been done? Would love to see this, by all means.
Since you missed the point, people all over the world are consuming artificial sweeteners every day and they are not dropping dead from their consumption. There is your test/proof/study that the artificial sweeteners do not cause problems!
People all over the world drink and smoke and eat fried foods every day without dropping dead from their consumption. Is that proof that those things don't cause problems?
Actually, yes.
Subsequent studies have severed the correlation between fried food/fat and arterial disease.
You ought to try to keep up with the science.14 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
But it's actually very difficult to use scientific research to prove that something is bad for you - artificial sweeteners have been linked to diabetes and cancer, but scientists aren't rushing to perform this research on humans because that would be unethical and it would also take many years. The research that I have seen (aspartame linked to leukemia, people who drink diet soda significantly more likely to get diabetes than people who drink regular soda, etc.) is so compelling that I wouldn't want for me or anyone I know to be the guinea pig who takes that kind of risk! Not saying it's right to say something to a stranger (I would never do that), but I would compare it to walking up to a stranger and saying not to smoke cigarettes - it's pretty rude and not something I would say, but I can see how someone would want to speak up.
Please link the studies - the only studies that I have seen that show any evidence of these issues have been weak correlation studies that cannot show actual causal factors between the artificial sweeteners and the cancer/disease.
I am referring to the correlation studies. Last year, one found that new moms who reported consuming artificial sweeteners like Equal and Splenda during their pregnancies were twice as likely to have children who were overweight or obese within a year. Yes, this is a correlation study but that's probably a necessity for ethical reasons. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2521471
Again the type of research you're looking for would take years to conduct and it would also be pretty unethical. I hope no researchers out there are asking people to consume artificial sweeteners consistently for years and years to prove that it causes cancer and diabetes - that would be extraordinarily morally wrong.
Knowing what we do know (there are links between artificial sweeteners and a variety of serious health problems),we can all make decisions about what's important to us and where we want to compromise. I know people who smoke and drink knowing that these aren't good health choices, and that's their decision to make. Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to consume artificial sweeteners knowing that at best, they aren't good for me, and at worst, they can cause serious health problems.
This has been done and is occurring on a daily basis in the REAL world - artificial sweeteners have been around for 50-60 years and outside of an occasional allergic reaction, the is not a single solitary piece of evidence that DIRECTLY shows any harm coming from their use.
Where has it been done? Would love to see this, by all means.
Since you missed the point, people all over the world are consuming artificial sweeteners every day and they are not dropping dead from their consumption. There is your test/proof/study that the artificial sweeteners do not cause problems!
People all over the world drink and smoke and eat fried foods every day without dropping dead from their consumption. Is that proof that those things don't cause problems?
Fried foods? Context and dosage, moderate consumption doesn't seem to be a problem.
Smoking? Clearly proven harmful. (People do drop dead every day, but there's solid proof that's less extreme than the death stats.)
Alcohol? Somewhere in between. Moderate consumption can be both helpful and harmful, in different ways. So, context and dosage again.7 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »To the OP's original question, I think I would look Nosy Nancy straight in the eye, with my RBF on, and say "I can deadlift you."
This is an interesting take on the situation. I'm older, and look somewhat frail (I'm not). I wonder if she would have felt as comfortable lecturing someone younger and fitter.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
But it's actually very difficult to use scientific research to prove that something is bad for you - artificial sweeteners have been linked to diabetes and cancer, but scientists aren't rushing to perform this research on humans because that would be unethical and it would also take many years. The research that I have seen (aspartame linked to leukemia, people who drink diet soda significantly more likely to get diabetes than people who drink regular soda, etc.) is so compelling that I wouldn't want for me or anyone I know to be the guinea pig who takes that kind of risk! Not saying it's right to say something to a stranger (I would never do that), but I would compare it to walking up to a stranger and saying not to smoke cigarettes - it's pretty rude and not something I would say, but I can see how someone would want to speak up.
Please link the studies - the only studies that I have seen that show any evidence of these issues have been weak correlation studies that cannot show actual causal factors between the artificial sweeteners and the cancer/disease.
I am referring to the correlation studies. Last year, one found that new moms who reported consuming artificial sweeteners like Equal and Splenda during their pregnancies were twice as likely to have children who were overweight or obese within a year. Yes, this is a correlation study but that's probably a necessity for ethical reasons. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2521471
Again the type of research you're looking for would take years to conduct and it would also be pretty unethical. I hope no researchers out there are asking people to consume artificial sweeteners consistently for years and years to prove that it causes cancer and diabetes - that would be extraordinarily morally wrong.
Knowing what we do know (there are links between artificial sweeteners and a variety of serious health problems),we can all make decisions about what's important to us and where we want to compromise. I know people who smoke and drink knowing that these aren't good health choices, and that's their decision to make. Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to consume artificial sweeteners knowing that at best, they aren't good for me, and at worst, they can cause serious health problems.
This has been done and is occurring on a daily basis in the REAL world - artificial sweeteners have been around for 50-60 years and outside of an occasional allergic reaction, the is not a single solitary piece of evidence that DIRECTLY shows any harm coming from their use.
Where has it been done? Would love to see this, by all means.
Since you missed the point, people all over the world are consuming artificial sweeteners every day and they are not dropping dead from their consumption. There is your test/proof/study that the artificial sweeteners do not cause problems!
People all over the world drink and smoke and eat fried foods every day without dropping dead from their consumption. Is that proof that those things don't cause problems?
Actually, yes.
Subsequent studies have severed the correlation between fried food/fat and arterial disease.
You ought to try to keep up with the science.
Great I'm not getting in to a debate on how much fried food we should all be consuming (if you think based on that research it's healthy I would encourage you to eat it all day). My point is that the absence of people around the world dropping dead every day from consuming things isn't scientific proof that whatever they are consuming is unhealthy. That would be a silly way to look at things.11 -
Actually “processed meats” have been linked to cancer.Is it just me, or is everything linked to cancer nowadays?
Just saying, if people start lecturing me that bacon will give me cancer, I am gonna tell everyone I'm dying happy.
Edited to add.....
I use Splenda every day.
You’re right though. A life without bacon isn’t worth living. Lol I eat bacon like every week
When I was pregnant, I literally at 7 strips of thick cut bacon every single morning for 2-3 months. It was my snack while driving in to work. HAHAHA
And now, my toddler loves bacon.
I don't care what the science says - I ate my weight in banana cream pies through two pregnancies, and both my daughters have always loved whipped cream and bananas. There's gotta be a link, right?10 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?13 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?
Pretty simple really.
You're responding and behaving very typically for a nutritionist.
Poorly sourced, unsubstantiated, irrelevancies. Inability to articulately respond to criticism and continued reliance in outdated or feels based science.19 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
But it's actually very difficult to use scientific research to prove that something is bad for you - artificial sweeteners have been linked to diabetes and cancer, but scientists aren't rushing to perform this research on humans because that would be unethical and it would also take many years. The research that I have seen (aspartame linked to leukemia, people who drink diet soda significantly more likely to get diabetes than people who drink regular soda, etc.) is so compelling that I wouldn't want for me or anyone I know to be the guinea pig who takes that kind of risk! Not saying it's right to say something to a stranger (I would never do that), but I would compare it to walking up to a stranger and saying not to smoke cigarettes - it's pretty rude and not something I would say, but I can see how someone would want to speak up.
Please link the studies - the only studies that I have seen that show any evidence of these issues have been weak correlation studies that cannot show actual causal factors between the artificial sweeteners and the cancer/disease.
I am referring to the correlation studies. Last year, one found that new moms who reported consuming artificial sweeteners like Equal and Splenda during their pregnancies were twice as likely to have children who were overweight or obese within a year. Yes, this is a correlation study but that's probably a necessity for ethical reasons. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2521471
Again the type of research you're looking for would take years to conduct and it would also be pretty unethical. I hope no researchers out there are asking people to consume artificial sweeteners consistently for years and years to prove that it causes cancer and diabetes - that would be extraordinarily morally wrong.
Knowing what we do know (there are links between artificial sweeteners and a variety of serious health problems),we can all make decisions about what's important to us and where we want to compromise. I know people who smoke and drink knowing that these aren't good health choices, and that's their decision to make. Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to consume artificial sweeteners knowing that at best, they aren't good for me, and at worst, they can cause serious health problems.
There are numerous excellent, ethically conducted metadata studies performed using a population that used artificial sweeteners for more than 50 years, showing absolutely no correlation between the sweeteners and any disease. People simply used the sweeteners and after years of use, studies performed on them showed no negative effects. There's a boatload of these studies cited in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread.
eta: oops, sorry, I see this has been soundly quashed already. I probably should finish catching up before jumping in with profound insights. It's going to take a second cup of coffee.13 -
rkgray7392 wrote: »I really do hate it when people get all high and mighty about artificial sweeteners. I can understand the beef with aspartame, that stuff gives me headaches. But I've never once had a bad reaction from splenda or stevia. Both are way better for than dumping sugar into your coffee would be.
There is nothing wrong with using sugar in moderation and counting the calories
Or even not counting the calories 5 -
stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?
Pretty simple really.
You're responding and behaving very typically for a nutritionist.
Poorly sourced, unsubstantiated, irrelevancies. Inability to articulately respond to criticism and continued reliance in outdated or feels based science.
I don't know if we're having the same conversation. First of all, I'm not a nutritionist, the nutritionist here is Jadkins. CollectingBlues responded to Jadkins suggesting that he/she wasn't using real science. My question is, what reason does CollectingBlues have to believe that Jadkins wasn't using science?15 -
Actually “processed meats” have been linked to cancer.Is it just me, or is everything linked to cancer nowadays?
Just saying, if people start lecturing me that bacon will give me cancer, I am gonna tell everyone I'm dying happy.
Edited to add.....
I use Splenda every day.
You’re right though. A life without bacon isn’t worth living. Lol I eat bacon like every week
When I was pregnant, I literally at 7 strips of thick cut bacon every single morning for 2-3 months. It was my snack while driving in to work. HAHAHA
And now, my toddler loves bacon.
I don't care what the science says - I ate my weight in banana cream pies through two pregnancies, and both my daughters have always loved whipped cream and bananas. There's gotta be a link, right?
There is a suggested link. The amniotic fluid tends to take the 'flavor' of whatever the mom eats. They did a study (I'd have to go dig my notes to find it again), where to fed 1 group of expecting mothers carrot juice daily during the last trimester. 1 group was told to avoid it like the pest. 1 group was given the carrot juice during the first 6 months of the kid's life, while they were breast feeding.
When the kids started eating, the gave them the option of carrots or wheat mush. Kids from groups 1 and 3 preferred the carrots. Kids from group 2 preferred the wheat mush.
So the link is not only during pregnancy but also post pregnancy while nursing.
It's your fault your daughters like bananas (comment meant in jest and not to be taken seriously )
EDIT:
Didn't get the numbers of days/weeks quite right, but the conclusion I did:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1351272/
5 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?
Pretty simple really.
You're responding and behaving very typically for a nutritionist.
Poorly sourced, unsubstantiated, irrelevancies. Inability to articulately respond to criticism and continued reliance in outdated or feels based science.
I don't know if we're having the same conversation. First of all, I'm not a nutritionist, the nutritionist here is Jadkins. CollectingBlues responded to Jadkins suggesting that he/she wasn't using real science. My question is, what reason does CollectingBlues have to believe that Jadkins wasn't using science?
I apologize. You're giving advice just like a nutritionist and defending your thinking just like a nutritionist.
I stand corrected.
The rest of the points stand as written.
Additionally, the qualifications to be a "certified nutritionist" normally boils down to a 60 minute online click through course.14 -
stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?
Pretty simple really.
You're responding and behaving very typically for a nutritionist.
Poorly sourced, unsubstantiated, irrelevancies. Inability to articulately respond to criticism and continued reliance in outdated or feels based science.
I don't know if we're having the same conversation. First of all, I'm not a nutritionist, the nutritionist here is Jadkins. CollectingBlues responded to Jadkins suggesting that he/she wasn't using real science. My question is, what reason does CollectingBlues have to believe that Jadkins wasn't using science?
I apologize. You're giving advice just like a nutritionist and defending your thinking just like a nutritionist.
I stand corrected.
The rest of the points stand as written.
Additionally, the qualifications to be a "certified nutritionist" normally boils down to a 60 minute online click through course.
But what exactly did you find poorly sourced, unsubstantiated or irrelevant? And what advice did I give? It seems like you're emotionally objecting to nutritionists which I guess you're entitled to but you haven't particularly made a point either as to why CollectingBlues dismissed Jadkins' comment as "woo." What did Jadkins say that was so irrelevant?15 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?
Fine. Here's my substance:
1. The nutritionist failed to demonstrate any causation in the peer-reviewed literature that the body actually treats an artificial sweetener as sugar (Protip: It doesn't), or that there is a negative effect between consumption of artificial sweeteners and weight gain or other adverse outcomes.
2. The credentials into being a "nutritionist" are worth the paper or Internet pixels they're written on. I'll listen to a dietitian, but anybody can call themselves a nutritionist.15 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »Everyone has an opinion, there's science to back up both sides of the fake sugar debate. Why do you people have to be so *kitten* to someone who disagrees with you?
I don't know who flagged this or why, but the flag is inappropriate.
There is no actual science backing up the premise that "fake sugar" is harmful. If you read the first several posts in the "Aspartame isn't scary" thread you will find numerous legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is not. There are no legitimate peer-reviewed studies that show it is in people who have no adverse reactions to the components.
I'd rather this didn't turn into an "evil Splenda" thread, since the OP centers on inappropriate comments from strangers, and the circumstance of the specific comment is incidental to the conversation.
edited for clarity and grammar :embarrassed:
But it's actually very difficult to use scientific research to prove that something is bad for you - artificial sweeteners have been linked to diabetes and cancer, but scientists aren't rushing to perform this research on humans because that would be unethical and it would also take many years. The research that I have seen (aspartame linked to leukemia, people who drink diet soda significantly more likely to get diabetes than people who drink regular soda, etc.) is so compelling that I wouldn't want for me or anyone I know to be the guinea pig who takes that kind of risk! Not saying it's right to say something to a stranger (I would never do that), but I would compare it to walking up to a stranger and saying not to smoke cigarettes - it's pretty rude and not something I would say, but I can see how someone would want to speak up.
Please link the studies - the only studies that I have seen that show any evidence of these issues have been weak correlation studies that cannot show actual causal factors between the artificial sweeteners and the cancer/disease.
I am referring to the correlation studies. Last year, one found that new moms who reported consuming artificial sweeteners like Equal and Splenda during their pregnancies were twice as likely to have children who were overweight or obese within a year. Yes, this is a correlation study but that's probably a necessity for ethical reasons. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2521471
Again the type of research you're looking for would take years to conduct and it would also be pretty unethical. I hope no researchers out there are asking people to consume artificial sweeteners consistently for years and years to prove that it causes cancer and diabetes - that would be extraordinarily morally wrong.
Knowing what we do know (there are links between artificial sweeteners and a variety of serious health problems),we can all make decisions about what's important to us and where we want to compromise. I know people who smoke and drink knowing that these aren't good health choices, and that's their decision to make. Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to consume artificial sweeteners knowing that at best, they aren't good for me, and at worst, they can cause serious health problems.
Correlation does not equal causation. Try again13 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »To the OP's original question, I think I would look Nosy Nancy straight in the eye, with my RBF on, and say "I can deadlift you."
$20 if you actually lifted her.8 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?
Pretty simple really.
You're responding and behaving very typically for a nutritionist.
Poorly sourced, unsubstantiated, irrelevancies. Inability to articulately respond to criticism and continued reliance in outdated or feels based science.
I don't know if we're having the same conversation. First of all, I'm not a nutritionist, the nutritionist here is Jadkins. CollectingBlues responded to Jadkins suggesting that he/she wasn't using real science. My question is, what reason does CollectingBlues have to believe that Jadkins wasn't using science?
I apologize. You're giving advice just like a nutritionist and defending your thinking just like a nutritionist.
I stand corrected.
The rest of the points stand as written.
Additionally, the qualifications to be a "certified nutritionist" normally boils down to a 60 minute online click through course.
But what exactly did you find poorly sourced, unsubstantiated or irrelevant? And what advice did I give? It seems like you're emotionally objecting to nutritionists which I guess you're entitled to but you haven't particularly made a point either as to why CollectingBlues dismissed Jadkins' comment as "woo." What did Jadkins say that was so irrelevant?
here you go again.NicoleHaki wrote: »That said, I also hate artificial sweeteners and sometimes catch myself making comments to people who choose Splenda or diet soda. I don't do it to be rude but to me it's like watching someone smoking a cigarette - I feel like maybe I can save them! Not saying this to justify her rudeness, but saying it because maybe her intentions weren't that bad - it genuinely pains me to see people drink soda or put Splenda in their coffee or tea.
Since you seem to keep forgetting.9 -
NicoleHaki wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »NicoleHaki wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »jadkins389 wrote: »As a nutritionist I have to put my two cents in and say that research shows that artificial sweeteners do not help with weight loss. Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
Now as a human being, I must say it is completely inappropriate to confront a stranger in public telling them what they are doing "wrong". Even if you think you are "right", it is still just wrong.
Let me guess. You're a nutritionist, but not a dietitian, right?
I'm glad that the dietitian I see actually uses science, and not woo.
How is this not actual science? She's talking about glycemic indexes. Do you want her to pull some obscure study that took place over a course of months and use that as evidence for or against artificial sweeteners? What's wrong with using common sense?
Using science-y words is not what makes a conclusion "science".
Personally, I prefer sugar, because humans have been eating it and thriving (long enough to breed, at least), for hundreds to thousands of years. But not in coffee, because I think sweet coffee is yucky. Neither of those beliefs are science, either.
Again, what part of what she says do you find scientifically faulty? Do you disagree that some sweeteners have lower glycemic indexes than others?
I'm not criticizing the source. I'm not interested enough: Like I said, I use a different thought process personally (one that isn't scientific, and I said so).
My thought process - plus the fact that it tastes better to me - leads me to prefer sugar. (I won't reject the occasional otherwise desirable food because it contains an artificial sweetener - dosage is relevant. I don't think about GI much because I'm not IR or diabetic, and rarely consume sweeteners outside complex foods that include fats, protein, fiber, so an individual ingredient's GI is immaterial. Context matters.)
I'm criticizing your defense of the source. It lacks substance, that's all.
I wasn't defending the source, I was asking CollectingBlues why he/she criticized the source as "woo." It seems like that is thrown around a lot here - if someone wants to disagree with a nutritionist, why not use some substance rather than criticizing the fact that he/she is a nutritionist?
Pretty simple really.
You're responding and behaving very typically for a nutritionist.
Poorly sourced, unsubstantiated, irrelevancies. Inability to articulately respond to criticism and continued reliance in outdated or feels based science.
I don't know if we're having the same conversation. First of all, I'm not a nutritionist, the nutritionist here is Jadkins. CollectingBlues responded to Jadkins suggesting that he/she wasn't using real science. My question is, what reason does CollectingBlues have to believe that Jadkins wasn't using science?
I apologize. You're giving advice just like a nutritionist and defending your thinking just like a nutritionist.
I stand corrected.
The rest of the points stand as written.
Additionally, the qualifications to be a "certified nutritionist" normally boils down to a 60 minute online click through course.
But what exactly did you find poorly sourced, unsubstantiated or irrelevant? And what advice did I give? It seems like you're emotionally objecting to nutritionists which I guess you're entitled to but you haven't particularly made a point either as to why CollectingBlues dismissed Jadkins' comment as "woo." What did Jadkins say that was so irrelevant?
This:
Most are just synthetic versions of the sugar you are avoiding and your body treats it as such. Honey or Stevia are your best options for low-glycemic sweeteners. That being said, even as a nutritionist, we meet people where they are. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, and everyone is willing to sacrifice different things to achieve their goals.
That is so blatantly false. The body does *not* treat an artificial sweetener as sugar. Period.
13
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