May 2018 Running Challenge
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@mbaker566 so glad your pup is ok. That is a great picture of her.
@kevaasen congrats on your first marathon. 3:47 is just amazing, ESPECIALLY for your 1st!!!0 -
@kevaasen- Congrats on a spectacular first marathon! How did I not know you were running the Flying Pig??? I am so glad you enjoyed it. It is easily my favorite race, with the exception maybe of Boston. The city really comes together to do it up right. Cincinnati is definitely "Pig Proud". That is a great time for any marathon, particularly for a first marathon and a pretty tough course! Way to go!3
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@kevaasen a spectacular performance!! Well done!
Hitting the wall and losing steam are not the same thing. Truly hitting the wall means your glycogen stores have been used up to the point where your body nearly shuts down your muscles in order to save the glycogen for the brain. While your muscles can use fat and even protein for energy, your brain can only use glycogen. Shutting down the body is the brain going into self preservation mode.PastorVincent wrote: »@kevaasen - "the wall" and "I lost steam in the last 6 miles" are one and the same
Right about 20 miles seems to be the magic distance when people run into trouble. I dunno why, perhaps @Stoshew71 does? At a guess, your need for energy and your ability to consume your energy stores probably cross some threshold there.
If @kevaasen was able to manage 9 minute miles, he was no where near the wall. Just walking would be problematic. He was fatigued, to be sure, but he did not bonk.
This is a good discussion of bonking vs. fatigue vs. cramping:
http://www.inbalancephysicaltherapy.net/bonking-vs-fatigue-vs-cramping-what-you-need-to-know/
This is what hitting the wall looks like
https://youtu.be/wDNtNjwb5Us
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BTW, the link I posted above also discusses the common misconception that cramps are caused by dehydration and/or loss of electrolytes.
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Went back to the old elliptical last night in deference to knee pain (I only started jogging in the last couple of years). It was certainly easier on the knee and was still a good workout. I am still quite capable of a >900kcal/hr pace. Too bad it's so boring!
Matt Fitzgerald (author of several books on running) likes the elliptical as an alternative to running. In fact, he recommends the Elliptigo as a cross training tool. Well, that would be fun, at least.
Looking forward to getting back to running!
@Elise4270 , can you talk about the inversion table a little more? How do you use it, how do you know it's working, what does "working" mean? My husband and I both have chronic back issues, and I've wondered what the benefits are and if it might actually be useful to us.
It's super simple. They run about $100USD and invert you, which allows the compression forces on your spine to be relieved. If you think of your
vertebrae as a super double stuffed gel Oreo that got compressed, imagine pulling it apart slowly. It should allow the "goo" *scientific name thare, to suck back in some, which hopefully no longer puts (as much) pressure on exiting nerve roots.
You can engage the stop (ours is a bar) that prevents you from going back too far. I had to gradually work up to a 45-60° inversion. It took some getting used to. It hurts, but afterwards I can tell it helps with less pain, increased mobility. More it's used the easier/less painful it becomes. DH (@ericjayh) has arthritis in his mid spine, I can't say that it's helped him. But if it's bulging discs that are the culprit, I recommend trying it. Heck for $100 I can't see that there's much to lose.
I found it also pulled my hip muscles and chronically aggravated SI joint.
I bet if you Google/you tube it, you find more info. Although, I am very happy to answer your inquiries.
Anyone else use one?
Thanks for this! A bulging disk is exactly what seems to be the root of my issues. Maybe it's worth a shot. I could call it part of my stretching routine. 1 -
lporter229 wrote: »@kevaasen- Congrats on a spectacular first marathon! How did I not know you were running the Flying Pig??? I am so glad you enjoyed it. It is easily my favorite race, with the exception maybe of Boston. The city really comes together to do it up right. Cincinnati is definitely "Pig Proud". That is a great time for any marathon, particularly for a first marathon and a pretty tough course! Way to go!
Thanks for the comments. Re not knowing, this thread doesn't move fast at all and in addition, I am not a common poster other than a weekly running update, occasionally making a comment here or there on a topic that catches my eye and I likely only had a couple references to running a marathon in OH on May 6th, etc. 0 -
@kevaasen a spectacular performance!! Well done!
Hitting the wall and losing steam are not the same thing. Truly hitting the wall means your glycogen stores have been used up to the point where your body nearly shuts down your muscles in order to save the glycogen for the brain. While your muscles can use fat and even protein for energy, your brain can only use glycogen. Shutting down the body is the brain going into self preservation mode.PastorVincent wrote: »@kevaasen - "the wall" and "I lost steam in the last 6 miles" are one and the same Right about 20 miles seems to be the magic distance when people run into trouble. I dunno why, perhaps @Stoshew71 does? At a guess, your need for energy and your ability to consume your energy stores probably cross some threshold there.
If @kevaasen was able to manage 9 minute miles, he was no where near the wall. Just walking would be problematic. He was fatigued, to be sure, but he did not bonk.
This is a good discussion of bonking vs. fatigue vs. cramping:
http://www.inbalancephysicaltherapy.net/bonking-vs-fatigue-vs-cramping-what-you-need-to-know/
This is what hitting the wall looks likehttps://youtu.be/wDNtNjwb5Us
Ah, okay, never heard of it used for anything so extreme before. Based on that - I have never hit the wall.1 -
lporter229 wrote: »@kevaasen- Congrats on a spectacular first marathon! How did I not know you were running the Flying Pig??? I am so glad you enjoyed it. It is easily my favorite race, with the exception maybe of Boston. The city really comes together to do it up right. Cincinnati is definitely "Pig Proud". That is a great time for any marathon, particularly for a first marathon and a pretty tough course! Way to go!
Thanks for the comments. Re not knowing, this thread doesn't move fast at all and in addition, I am not a common poster other than a weekly running update, occasionally making a comment here or there on a topic that catches my eye and I likely only had a couple references to running a marathon in OH on May 6th, etc.
I just read your race report on Strava. Great report. It sounds like you have a lot of good take aways from your first race. Re: your comment on starting a corral back next time- something that happens when you start further back, particularly in big races, is early traffic. I started the race with some fellow training friends in corral C, as we were targeting a 3:45. There were A LOT of runners that obviously should not have started in that corral and they were not checking bibs for entry into the corral as they usually do in A and B. The result was 2 miles of weaving in and out of slower runners and tight spots, as evidenced by my first two miles being my slowest at 9:17 and 8:53. I also think the traffic was such that it would have been difficult to try and stay near the pacer this early on, so that might have resulted in some unexpected stress of trying to play "catch up" to the pacer. Just some additional food for thought since it appear that you have been able to benefit from some good race planning.
Good luck on your next marathon. With number one under your belt, you should crush number two even more!0 -
@kevaasen a spectacular performance!! Well done!
Hitting the wall and losing steam are not the same thing. Truly hitting the wall means your glycogen stores have been used up to the point where your body nearly shuts down your muscles in order to save the glycogen for the brain. While your muscles can use fat and even protein for energy, your brain can only use glycogen. Shutting down the body is the brain going into self preservation mode.PastorVincent wrote: »@kevaasen - "the wall" and "I lost steam in the last 6 miles" are one and the same Right about 20 miles seems to be the magic distance when people run into trouble. I dunno why, perhaps @Stoshew71 does? At a guess, your need for energy and your ability to consume your energy stores probably cross some threshold there.
If @kevaasen was able to manage 9 minute miles, he was no where near the wall. Just walking would be problematic. He was fatigued, to be sure, but he did not bonk.
This is a good discussion of bonking vs. fatigue vs. cramping:
http://www.inbalancephysicaltherapy.net/bonking-vs-fatigue-vs-cramping-what-you-need-to-know/
This is what hitting the wall looks likehttps://youtu.be/wDNtNjwb5Us
agree that is the true definition of the wall. I see more of a couple of severity levels of the wall as I don't think I would ever push myself to that extreme
Code Red) crash and burn - worse case shown in the video;
Code Orange) You can't run at all and walking is painful
Code Yellow) needing to revert to a run/walk strategy and/o overall pace exceeds an "easy run pace" by 1-2+ minutes.
thanks for the link will need to take a look1 -
@mbaker566 so glad your pup is ok. That is a great picture of her.
@kevaasen congrats on your first marathon. 3:47 is just amazing, ESPECIALLY for your 1st!!!
Thank you! Appreciate the comment0 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Went back to the old elliptical last night in deference to knee pain (I only started jogging in the last couple of years). It was certainly easier on the knee and was still a good workout. I am still quite capable of a >900kcal/hr pace. Too bad it's so boring!
Matt Fitzgerald (author of several books on running) likes the elliptical as an alternative to running. In fact, he recommends the Elliptigo as a cross training tool. Well, that would be fun, at least.
Looking forward to getting back to running!
@Elise4270 , can you talk about the inversion table a little more? How do you use it, how do you know it's working, what does "working" mean? My husband and I both have chronic back issues, and I've wondered what the benefits are and if it might actually be useful to us.
It's super simple. They run about $100USD and invert you, which allows the compression forces on your spine to be relieved. If you think of your
vertebrae as a super double stuffed gel Oreo that got compressed, imagine pulling it apart slowly. It should allow the "goo" *scientific name thare, to suck back in some, which hopefully no longer puts (as much) pressure on exiting nerve roots.
You can engage the stop (ours is a bar) that prevents you from going back too far. I had to gradually work up to a 45-60° inversion. It took some getting used to. It hurts, but afterwards I can tell it helps with less pain, increased mobility. More it's used the easier/less painful it becomes. DH (@ericjayh) has arthritis in his mid spine, I can't say that it's helped him. But if it's bulging discs that are the culprit, I recommend trying it. Heck for $100 I can't see that there's much to lose.
I found it also pulled my hip muscles and chronically aggravated SI joint.
I bet if you Google/you tube it, you find more info. Although, I am very happy to answer your inquiries.
Anyone else use one?
Thanks for this! A bulging disk is exactly what seems to be the root of my issues. Maybe it's worth a shot. I could call it part of my stretching routine.
My inversion table cost a little more than $100 but paid for itself in about a month because of the chiropractor money I saved. My problems were mainly pregnancy-related, and with medical approval I even used it while pregnant - 30 seconds at a time, several times a day, instant relief. If I slacked off and didn't use it, the pain was back within a day or two. It feels like an upside-down stretch that takes all of the pressure off of your back.
I had another short run today. Now I need to take it easy for a few days, with possibly a short run on Saturday. It's getting real here. The kilometer numbers got painted on the road/bike path yesterday. Breathing deeply, not freaking out...
Upcoming races:
5/13 Lublin Marathon
6/2 Solidarność Half-Marathon
Summer trail HM tbd3 -
lporter229 wrote: »lporter229 wrote: »@kevaasen- Congrats on a spectacular first marathon! How did I not know you were running the Flying Pig??? I am so glad you enjoyed it. It is easily my favorite race, with the exception maybe of Boston. The city really comes together to do it up right. Cincinnati is definitely "Pig Proud". That is a great time for any marathon, particularly for a first marathon and a pretty tough course! Way to go!
Thanks for the comments. Re not knowing, this thread doesn't move fast at all and in addition, I am not a common poster other than a weekly running update, occasionally making a comment here or there on a topic that catches my eye and I likely only had a couple references to running a marathon in OH on May 6th, etc.
I just read your race report on Strava. Great report. It sounds like you have a lot of good take aways from your first race. Re: your comment on starting a corral back next time- something that happens when you start further back, particularly in big races, is early traffic. I started the race with some fellow training friends in corral C, as we were targeting a 3:45. There were A LOT of runners that obviously should not have started in that corral and they were not checking bibs for entry into the corral as they usually do in A and B. The result was 2 miles of weaving in and out of slower runners and tight spots, as evidenced by my first two miles being my slowest at 9:17 and 8:53. I also think the traffic was such that it would have been difficult to try and stay near the pacer this early on, so that might have resulted in some unexpected stress of trying to play "catch up" to the pacer. Just some additional food for thought since it appear that you have been able to benefit from some good race planning.
Good luck on your next marathon. With number one under your belt, you should crush number two even more!
Agree on the traffic issue as you start farther back. I did a 15k in Chicago last year and it was the same issue of bobbing and weaving around many that should not have been in any of the earlier corals as I was farther back and that was after there was a 3 minute gap, but you can expend a little more energy in shorter race and I wanted to avoid that in the marathon so starting in B was good from that perspective as it wasn't overly congested. What was nice about the 15k however is they placed pacers overlapping the coral times. i.e. would have been nice to have a 3:45 in B pace group and if in Coral C, a 3:40.....I believe they had 5 pacers in B running 3:40 with 3 having at least starting at/above pace, and the other 2 more of a even effort and likely negative split.
To your point, I could have used a solid plan and pacer in that second half. May not have made a difference, but race and learn. 0 -
Fartlek (4,3,2,1,1) this morning.
Felt pretty good, the first mile lied and told me my legs were tired. I was going for an 8:03 to 8:23 pace on the speed parts. I think I hit it most every time except one where there is some sketch sidewalk and my self preservation takes over.
Second workout this afternoon. Supposed to be a circuit training class with the group, but I am suspect on if they will pull it off. We will see what it becomes.3 -
@kevaasen a spectacular performance!! Well done!
Hitting the wall and losing steam are not the same thing. Truly hitting the wall means your glycogen stores have been used up to the point where your body nearly shuts down your muscles in order to save the glycogen for the brain. While your muscles can use fat and even protein for energy, your brain can only use glycogen. Shutting down the body is the brain going into self preservation mode.PastorVincent wrote: »@kevaasen - "the wall" and "I lost steam in the last 6 miles" are one and the same Right about 20 miles seems to be the magic distance when people run into trouble. I dunno why, perhaps @Stoshew71 does? At a guess, your need for energy and your ability to consume your energy stores probably cross some threshold there.
If @kevaasen was able to manage 9 minute miles, he was no where near the wall. Just walking would be problematic. He was fatigued, to be sure, but he did not bonk.
This is a good discussion of bonking vs. fatigue vs. cramping:
http://www.inbalancephysicaltherapy.net/bonking-vs-fatigue-vs-cramping-what-you-need-to-know/
This is what hitting the wall looks likehttps://youtu.be/wDNtNjwb5Us
agree that is the true definition of the wall. I see more of a couple of severity levels of the wall as I don't think I would ever push myself to that extreme
Code Red) crash and burn - worse case shown in the video;
Code Orange) You can't run at all and walking is painful
Code Yellow) needing to revert to a run/walk strategy and/o overall pace exceeds an "easy run pace" by 1-2+ minutes.
thanks for the link will need to take a look
There doesn't seem to be universal agreement as to what "the wall" is. Most experienced distance runners I know will agree with the definition of "bonking" being using up glycogen and physically unable to continue running. If "able to walk or hobble" is possible, then I bonked *after* crossing the finish line at Boston. No doubt I could have had the joy of that experience earlier if I'd let myself stop running anywhere in the last 2 miles or so of the course. Or perhaps I fell a bit short of a true bonk, as I was able to continue running until I chose to stop. The high-profile bonking episodes are all highly trained distance runners falling down involuntarily before they get to a finish line. Usage of the term "bonk" by marathon runners I know seems to imply "during a race" or "before running as far as planned" as part of the definition.
Many marathon runners I know speak of "the wall" as something less than bonking, a fatigue level that occurs late in marathons, typically mile 20 or later. That's when we are compelled to slow down by cumulative muscle fatigue and lactic acid. I think everyone agrees that this commonly happens about mile 20 of a marathon run for a fast overall time, but there is disagreement as to whether this is called "the wall." When I ran my first marathon at Buffalo 2015, I spoke of hitting "a wall" around mile 18, but I didn't think it was severe enough to be "the wall." Now, I see "the wall" as a term much like "cross training," in that I don't know what it means to someone else unless I ask them.
The link had an interesting discussion of cramping, which puts my marathon experience in a new light. I had calf cramps immediately after completing Buffalo 2015 and Boston 2016; calf cramps prevented me from finishing Rochester 2016; and I had light quad cramps late in Boston 2017. My calves threatened to cramp after I finished Boston 2018, but it never got bad enough to become a full fledged cramp. I need to think about how much is cumulative muscle damage versus electrolytes and dehydration. There were multiple things going on, including variations in weather, variations in training, and my ongoing development as a distance runner over time.4 -
@ddmom0811 I've downloaded the warmup plan. Now let's see if I actually do it Usually, I like to say my warmup is searching my apartment for my running gear and then walking down six flights of stairs, but I supposed that routine could be improved. Especially for the hips your routine will be a lot more effective!
@girlinahat Sounds like a fun weekend, even without a long run! Good that the ankle seems fine.
@PastorVincent Yay!!! You made it in sub 4 hours, with nearly 10 minutes to spare!! Love the race report.
And it's sooo impressive that you finished with your wife afterwards. At my marathon last year, they had an "UNICEF extra mile", which was fortunately less than half a mile. For each person that completed it after finishing the marathon, some company would donate money. I did did, but I was walking 80% of the way. Running an entire mile at whatever pace sounds crayz 8)
@lporter229 Congratulations, that's an awesome time!! And a great finishing picture!
@mbaker566 glad that your pup recovered so quickly!
@kevaasen Congrats!!! It sounds like your first marathon was really awesome.
@amymoreorless ouch! I wish you a good recovery!
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it does. it allows gravity to stretch you out a bitpolskagirl01 wrote: »
My inversion table cost a little more than $100 but paid for itself in about a month because of the chiropractor money I saved. My problems were mainly pregnancy-related, and with medical approval I even used it while pregnant - 30 seconds at a time, several times a day, instant relief. If I slacked off and didn't use it, the pain was back within a day or two. It feels like an upside-down stretch that takes all of the pressure off of your back.
you don't get the stretch but legs up the wall can also help with lower back pain.
i don't have an inversion table but i do invert on an aerial hammock and it is truly a wonderful feeling
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Really great run this evening! 12.13 km at 6:05 min per km. I was really tired and dragging this afternoon and almost talked myself out of getting outside to get some distance in. Turned out I had way more energy than I thought! Funny how that happens...
Now at 57.9 for the month, over halfway to my goal of 100. I think I need to re-evaluate my goals... 4 -
Interesting discussion regarding "bonking" and "hitting the wall". Personally, I have always taken both to mean the complete depletion of one's glycogen, as in the video. But to the other point, can anyone say that they have actually enjoyed the final 6 miles of a marathon? I would say that for most people, even those running negative splits, those last six miles are pretty darn tough, whatever the physiological reason. Hence "the wall" is a pretty common thing, however you choose to define it. ETA: After re-reading your post, I think this is probably similar to the point you were trying to make @Mobycarp.
E(again)TA: That brings up another question (related to your post and muscle fatigue and lactic acid)-must one need to slow down in order to have "hit the wall"? Or is physical pain and mental anguish enough to qualify?0 -
You can engage the stop (ours is a bar) that prevents you from going back too far. I had to gradually work up to a 45-60° inversion. It took some getting used to. It hurts, but afterwards I can tell it helps with less pain, increased mobility. More it's used the easier/less painful it becomes. DH (@ericjayh) has arthritis in his mid spine, I can't say that it's helped him. But if it's bulging discs that are the culprit, I recommend trying it. Heck for $100 I can't see that there's much to lose.
I found it also pulled my hip muscles and chronically aggravated SI joint.
I bet if you Google/you tube it, you find more info. Although, I am very happy to answer your inquiries.
Anyone else use one?
Oh, wow. I am super interested in one of these. One of the issues that has kept me from exercising (and sleeping) is that my left hip/lower back hurt all the time. I've decided just to push through and walk/run, and I'm finding that it doesn't hurt any worse to do so. But I'd love to get more relief and stop taking aleve or advil so often.
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Also...decided to check out Planet Fitness today to try the treadmills for rainy and/or too hot or bad air quality days. It was...very purple. The people were neither friendly nor helpful. On the other hand, they are $10 a month. So it is likely I will join anyway unless the cinema at my old club convinces me otherwise...
I did 3 miles on the treadmill (1 running) and remembered that running on a treadmill is really different than outside. I don't think I like it very much.
3.25/10 accomplished for May! (And 12 miles total walk/run)1
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