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How do you feel about fasting?
Replies
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Oh, and a gentle request, IF you're going to post screen shots over pasting text, use the Spoiler formatting so that your posts are easier to read and don't do all sorts of wacky force scrolling effects.2
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stanmann571 wrote: »Oh, and a gentle request, IF you're going to post screen shots over pasting text, use the Spoiler formatting so that your posts are easier to read and don't do all sorts of wacky force scrolling effects.
Haha! Okay.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
I only included the linked highlights. That information is likely there but you have to purchase the article to see the full study. My point is that I am vetting my sources, and that I am providing valid information. If you don't agree with it, that's okay.6 -
johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...6 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
I only included the linked highlights. That information is likely there but you have to purchase the article to see the full study. My point is that I am vetting my sources, and that I am providing valid information. If you don't agree with it, that's okay.
If you haven't examined the study, you haven't vetted the source9 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...
If you had bothered to follow the link, you would find a link to the full text7 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...
It's a subreddit dedicated to discussing scientific research.8 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Studies do show that intermittent fasting improves your blood pressure, cholesterol levels and your insulin sensitivity. When you fast your body can’t get it’s energy from food so it uses your glucose which is found in your liver and muscles, that process usually happens around 8 hours after your last meal. When that stores glucose has been used up the body then starts to burn fat to get its energy which is why you lose weight.Mandylou19912014 wrote: »It’s science .. fasting works .. there’s literally nothing you can really say against it is there?
Your claim is that Fasting causes weight/fat loss regardless of deficit.
That's contrary to established science. SO, I want a reference so I can see for myself.
But I have witnessed people who are fasting lose weight, I see for myself just how much it does for them
Yea, starving yourself will do that, nobody is arguing that. But decreasing your calories, eating right, and upping your exercise will too, in a healthy way.
Fasting is seen as healthy as it does improve blood pressure etc, it’s just another route to losing weight
So it's weight loss that causes all those benefits. NOT fasting?Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Studies do show that intermittent fasting improves your blood pressure, cholesterol levels and your insulin sensitivity. When you fast your body can’t get it’s energy from food so it uses your glucose which is found in your liver and muscles, that process usually happens around 8 hours after your last meal. When that stores glucose has been used up the body then starts to burn fat to get its energy which is why you lose weight.
Just want to be clear, because you said that it's FASTING that causes those benefits.
Yes, fasting causes the weight loss ..
Only if you're consuming less calories than you burn.
Fasting itself doesn't cause anything other than "causing" you to eat or not eat at certain times of the day. You lose weight via calorie deficit, however that is accomplished. The calories are what matter, not what time you eat them.
Fasting causes your body to burn fat because it’s used up all of its energy supply, this is what aids the weight loss, that and keeping to a healthy diet
Honestly, if you are not well versed on the physiology, it's probably best not to make these kind of blanket statements.
But it’s not a false statement, it’s just how the body works when someone is fasting
It has a shade of truth mixed with a lot of misunderstanding. You admittedly are not familiar with the research and the science. So, why keep doubling down with vague blanket statements. You will only draw questions from those that are more knowledgeable that you are unequipped to answer.
Haha you mean those who think they are more knowledgeable
No, I mean those that are more knowledgeable. There are some here with extensive background in the sciences and research. There are some of us with extensive background in nutrition.
You, self admittedly, do not have this kind of background. One of the keys to growth is keeping an open mind and learning from those that actually know.11 -
johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Was it the dropbox link?
I couldn't find anything else that looked promising.
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stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Was it the dropbox link?
I couldn't find anything else that looked promising.
Yes, the dropbox link.
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I reread one of the sources provided in the Harvard Blog and it had some interesting things to say: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064634?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed.
"CONLUSIONS: Even a single fasting interval in humans (e.g., overnight) can reduce basal concentrations of many metabolic biomarkers associated with chronic disease, such as insulin and glucose."10 -
johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
I only included the linked highlights. That information is likely there but you have to purchase the article to see the full study. My point is that I am vetting my sources, and that I am providing valid information. If you don't agree with it, that's okay.
If you haven't examined the study, you haven't vetted the source
You were quick to throw back your snippets without fully reading the article.7 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »I reread one of the sources provided in the Harvard Blog and it had some interesting things to say: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064634?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed.
"CONLUSIONS: Even a single fasting interval in humans (e.g., overnight) can reduce basal concentrations of many metabolic biomarkers associated with chronic disease, such as insulin and glucose."
Isn't overnight fasting what virtually all of us do (unless we're subject to sleep-eating episodes)?10 -
johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...
If you had bothered to follow the link, you would find a link to the full text
I did follow the full link and it is the same abbreviated version from before. You have to pay for access.1 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
I only included the linked highlights. That information is likely there but you have to purchase the article to see the full study. My point is that I am vetting my sources, and that I am providing valid information. If you don't agree with it, that's okay.
If you haven't examined the study, you haven't vetted the source
You were quick to throw back your snippets without fully reading the article.
Pretty easy to see the methodology.
Small sample size plus multiple comparisons problem = worthless.
Even the authors of the study referred to it as a proof of concept and listed several limitations2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »I reread one of the sources provided in the Harvard Blog and it had some interesting things to say: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064634?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed.
"CONLUSIONS: Even a single fasting interval in humans (e.g., overnight) can reduce basal concentrations of many metabolic biomarkers associated with chronic disease, such as insulin and glucose."
Isn't overnight fasting what virtually all of us do (unless we're subject to sleep-eating episodes)?
Hahaha - yes. But I think the point is even the fasting we do effortlessly has positive effects. There was much more in the conclusion.7 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...
If you had bothered to follow the link, you would find a link to the full text
I did follow the full link and it is the same abbreviated version from before. You have to pay for access.
Try again. It's in the dropbox link0 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »I reread one of the sources provided in the Harvard Blog and it had some interesting things to say: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064634?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed.
"CONLUSIONS: Even a single fasting interval in humans (e.g., overnight) can reduce basal concentrations of many metabolic biomarkers associated with chronic disease, such as insulin and glucose."
Isn't overnight fasting what virtually all of us do (unless we're subject to sleep-eating episodes)?
Hahaha - yes. But I think the point is even the fasting we do effortlessly has positive effects. There was much more in the conclusion.
Yes, but it doesn't necessarily follow that doing *more* will result in increasing the positive effect. It may or may not, we just don't know. The conclusion goes on to say: "An important clinical and scientific question is whether adopting a regular, intermittent fasting regimen is a feasible and sustainable population-based strategy for promoting metabolic health. Further, properly powered, controlled clinical research is needed to test whether intermittent fasting regimens can complement or replace energy restriction and, if so, whether they can facilitate long-term metabolic improvements and body weight management."
According to that link, those are the unknowns. The authors aren't willing to state that IF will promote better metabolic health or that it will "complement or replace" calorie restriction.
People who are arguing that IF will do those things are, IMO, ahead of what available research on humans has shown.
(Note: Based on anecdotal evidence, I have no doubt that some people do find IF to be a useful complement to calorie restriction because it helps them better control their hunger).7 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »I reread one of the sources provided in the Harvard Blog and it had some interesting things to say: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064634?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed.
"CONLUSIONS: Even a single fasting interval in humans (e.g., overnight) can reduce basal concentrations of many metabolic biomarkers associated with chronic disease, such as insulin and glucose."
Isn't overnight fasting what virtually all of us do (unless we're subject to sleep-eating episodes)?
Hahaha - yes. But I think the point is even the fasting we do effortlessly has positive effects. There was much more in the conclusion.
Great, so If we're already getting a benefit from overnight, how much additional benefit is gained from prolonged fasting... and how much longer must it be prolonged for meaningful/useful additional benefit to be acheived?7 -
johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...LeeshaSeal wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »You really should actually vet your sources
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2623528Conclusions and Relevance Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/81/1/69/4607679
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=01938924-201802000-00016In conclusion, alternate-day fasting is feasible in nonobese subjects for short time periods, although unlike rodents, the subjects were unable to maintain their body weight. Furthermore, fat oxidation was increased and translated into fat mass loss. Hunger on fasting days did not habituate over the course of the study, which perhaps indicates the unlikelihood of subjects continuing on this diet for extended periods of time. Whether alternate-day fasting would promote weight loss in an obese population is uncertain.Conclusions:
Intermittent energy restriction may be an effective strategy for the treatment of overweight and obesity. Intermittent energy restriction was comparable to continuous energy restriction for short term weight loss in overweight and obese adults. Intermittent energy restriction was shown to be more effective than no treatment, however, this should be interpreted cautiously due to the small number of studies and future research is warranted to confirm the findings of this review.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413118302535
Paywalled
Yes, we can see that too.
No mention of controls, methodology, etc. That information is presumably in the full text, which is behind a paywall
Useful information like how many patients, how long the study went. What fasting period was used. Whether/how calories and metabolic activity were tracked. Little basic stuff.
Found the full text.
8 subjects, 5 weeks, and suffers from the multiple comparisons problem.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/science/comments/8il3p4/early_timerestricted_feeding_improves_insulin/#ampf=undefined
Reddit?...
If you had bothered to follow the link, you would find a link to the full text
I did follow the full link and it is the same abbreviated version from before. You have to pay for access.
Try again. It's in the dropbox link
Got it although the first 3 tabs don't change. The references tab is full of information though.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LeeshaSeal wrote: »I reread one of the sources provided in the Harvard Blog and it had some interesting things to say: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064634?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed.
"CONLUSIONS: Even a single fasting interval in humans (e.g., overnight) can reduce basal concentrations of many metabolic biomarkers associated with chronic disease, such as insulin and glucose."
Isn't overnight fasting what virtually all of us do (unless we're subject to sleep-eating episodes)?
Hahaha - yes. But I think the point is even the fasting we do effortlessly has positive effects. There was much more in the conclusion.
Great, so If we're already getting a benefit from overnight, how much additional benefit is gained from prolonged fasting... and how much longer must it be prolonged for meaningful/useful additional benefit to be acheived?
I don't have any immediate sources like this to recommend. But I think that the scientific community is motivated to continue research related to IF.4 -
Hi OP,
Personally, I'm a fan of IF. I usually fast 16 hours of the day and eat during an 8 hour window. It's a great way to break through a plateau. I don't like the idea of 36-48 hour fasts or really anything beyond 24 hours. I believe it is dangerous and a bad habit. Personally, if I ever fast 24 hours I am sooo hungry by the end, so I just can't see how any longer than that can be safe.3 -
emilytoplin wrote: »Hi OP,
Personally, I'm a fan of IF. I usually fast 16 hours of the day and eat during an 8 hour window. It's a great way to break through a plateau. I don't like the idea of 36-48 hour fasts or really anything beyond 24 hours. I believe it is dangerous and a bad habit. Personally, if I ever fast 24 hours I am sooo hungry by the end, so I just can't see how any longer than that can be safe.
Traditional fasting AKA religious/spiritual fasting starts at 36 hours. And people have been doing it for millennia for spiritual/emotional/mental benefits.
There's no indication YET, that there's any meaningful health or weightloss benefit to fasting. I suspect that after much research, some years down the road, none will be forthcoming.6 -
LeeshaSeal wrote: »I reread one of the sources provided in the Harvard Blog and it had some interesting things to say: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064634?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed.
"CONLUSIONS: Even a single fasting interval in humans (e.g., overnight) can reduce basal concentrations of many metabolic biomarkers associated with chronic disease, such as insulin and glucose."
Also
"Research has not demonstrated that alternate-day fasting regimens produce superior weight loss in comparison to standard, continuous calorie restriction weight-loss plans."
"There are considerable observational data on various forms of religious fasting, most of which suggest that these regimens result in transitory weight loss and have mixed impacts on other biomarkers."
"Data are lacking regarding the impacts of intermittent fasting on other health behaviors, such as diet, sleep, and physical activity"
3 -
I've done IF when it works with my schedule and not done it at other times when it no longer works for my schedule. I don't think there's anything wrong with fasting as long as it's undertaken in a safe and healthy manner.
There's some interesting preliminary research out there about fasting, but I think it's taking it too far to say that any health benefits have been proven or absolutely occur. I think that's where most of the divide here lands. Not IF vs. no IF, but rather "this research is an interesting starting point that needs more study" vs "this research proves there are benefits." imo, the latter is far overstating what we know to be true so far.11 -
emilytoplin wrote: »Hi OP,
Personally, I'm a fan of IF. I usually fast 16 hours of the day and eat during an 8 hour window. It's a great way to break through a plateau. I don't like the idea of 36-48 hour fasts or really anything beyond 24 hours. I believe it is dangerous and a bad habit. Personally, if I ever fast 24 hours I am sooo hungry by the end, so I just can't see how any longer than that can be safe.
I don't see the relationship between when you personally feel hungry and how long it is generally physically safe to fast. I feel hungry after a 12 hour fast, but that doesn't mean it would be logical for me to conclude that longer fasts are unsafe.
3 -
Already posted upthread, not worth the effort. Believers gonna believe.6 -
Already posted upthread, not worth the effort. Believers gonna believe.
Exactly. And mostly ignored. When one has strong confirmation bias, one will only consider information that supports that position. There has been lots of compelling counter arguments of no demonstrable benefits at this time and few of any demonstrable benefit at this time.
But, as mother used to say, "don't confuse me with the facts, I've got my mind made up."8 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Studies do show that intermittent fasting improves your blood pressure, cholesterol levels and your insulin sensitivity. When you fast your body can’t get it’s energy from food so it uses your glucose which is found in your liver and muscles, that process usually happens around 8 hours after your last meal. When that stores glucose has been used up the body then starts to burn fat to get its energy which is why you lose weight. I 110% think that fasting is a great way to lose weight and works well
well if it improves cholesterol then mine should have never been high. Ive fasted all my life.1
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