What I Hate About Watching My Weight/New Lifestyle/Dieting, etc. (A Place to Vent)
Replies
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VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.8 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »
RIGHT?!? I hate wasting the delicious points (calories) on non-delicious foods! :mad:
Especially when it's something you used to love when you were younger or before you lost weight.
I used to love a lot of the Little Debbie snacks when I was younger & even when I was morbidly obese, but totally not worth it anymore!
Well unless it's a Swiss Roll, Nuddy Buddy, or Pumpkin Face.3 -
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Makes it really hard to enjoy the weekly treats that get brought in for our weekly staff meetings. I usually ignore them except the random week when something from a really good local bakery is brought in. Totally blows everything for the day, but at least it's maybe once a month that it happens.4
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kellyjellybellyjelly wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »
RIGHT?!? I hate wasting the delicious points (calories) on non-delicious foods! :mad:
Especially when it's something you used to love when you were younger or before you lost weight.
I used to love a lot of the Little Debbie snacks when I was younger & even when I was morbidly obese, but totally not worth it anymore!
Well unless it's a Swiss Roll, Nuddy Buddy, or Pumpkin Face.
I'm still partial to the zebra cakes4 -
jdubois5351 wrote: »
Don't judge. It IS difficult to stick with a social circle that drinks while you stay sober. Being around drunk people when you're not is super annoying.29 -
I hate that when grill a burger it can't be my burger of the past--6oz of 80% beef, blue cheese, lettuce tomato, onion, mayo, ketsup,mustard and relish with a side of both potato and macaroni salad. That is what I want...what I really really want.
(and please don't give the friendly advice to fit it into my calories...or everything in moderation)
So I hate weighing out 4oz of beef, no cheese, trimming off the roll so it weighs the right weight and having fake cauliflower potato salad.14 -
@Noreenmarie1234 (geek alert) they're symbols of my house in The Ilvermorny challenge I'm currently in (Harry Potter world, sort of). The bottom right one means I'm in Horned Serpent, and earning points for said house by completing various challenges, meeting my calorie goal etc.2
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VanVanDiane wrote: »@Noreenmarie1234 (geek alert) they're symbols of my house in The Ilvermorny challenge I'm currently in (Harry Potter world, sort of). The bottom right one means I'm in Horned Serpent, and earning points for said house by completing various challenges, meeting my calorie goal etc.
Omg I am a huge Harry Potter too ! Didn’t see that challenge lol thanks for explaining !2 -
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MonkeyMel21 wrote: »
Pretty much!MonkeyMel21 wrote: »I just hate that it’s never ending. I really enjoy working out, I’ve got that part down. I do NOT enjoy paying constant attention to what I eat in order to maintain my weight. It’s like I can never truly relax, constant vigilance.
Sick of looking at numbers.
Can’t wait to hit maintenance so I won’t have to be so strict.
Spoiler alert, maintenance is almost just as hard, lol.
Way to rain on my parade 😅😊
Frankly I think maintenance is the hardest part - when I relax a bit I gain my weight back and have to start all over again
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I love beer. So many damn tasty craft beers out there and I can’t have any while dieting unless I starve myself!8
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jdubois5351 wrote: »
I'm 27 and love to go out to bars and watch football with my friends. Sue me!
So do I (only I go to watch rugby instead of football). I guess I'm lucky that my friends in general don't drink (a beer or a cocktail, sure, but rarely more). I never understood the need to get drunk to have fun.1 -
That I have to look at something's yumminess in term of it's calorific value.
For example, the other day I had a gooey chocolate fondant type pudding, and although it was really yummy, for the number of calories it was, it wasn't quite yummy enough9 -
MonkeyMel21 wrote: »
Pretty much!MonkeyMel21 wrote: »I just hate that it’s never ending. I really enjoy working out, I’ve got that part down. I do NOT enjoy paying constant attention to what I eat in order to maintain my weight. It’s like I can never truly relax, constant vigilance.
Sick of looking at numbers.
Can’t wait to hit maintenance so I won’t have to be so strict.
Spoiler alert, maintenance is almost just as hard, lol.
Way to rain on my parade 😅😊
Frankly I think maintenance is the hardest part - when I relax a bit I gain my weight back and have to start all over again
Never relax! Never turn your back! I remember the moment I was like I'M HERE HELLO GOAL WEIGHT ok I get basically no more calories forever. OK then.5 -
Butterchop wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.
As a guy, I've never been told to smile, and never heard a guy been told to smile, in the same way that its told to women. Sure if a guy is looking all grumpy, maybe a friend will say to them "Don't be sad, be happy, smile more." That's completely different than going up to a stranger and saying "come on love, give us a smile" or "you would be really pretty if you smiled more" or all the other condescending, creepy ways its said to women. It's totally in your right to not find it offensive when someone does it you, but a it makes a significant number of women uncomfortable, and men should stop doing it because of that.
Like my wife actually likes it when construction workers catcall her. It makes her feel good. That's totally her right to feel that way but that doesn't make catcalling good or an okay thing to do or make it wrong that other women don't like it.
I think it's the same thing with telling a woman to smile. If the guy knows the woman well and is absolutely sure that she doesn't take offense to it (and not just going along with it to placate you), sure go ahead. But for women that they don't know well or for strangers, it's not an appropriate thing for men to do.24 -
jludwick78 wrote: »I love beer. So many damn tasty craft beers out there and I can’t have any while dieting unless I starve myself!
I feel your pain. I'm a crafter and brewer and the tricky part is making this fit the budget. It can be done, but many of the rich brews are really calorie dense.
Why I'm partial to heavy grainy/oatey stouts - both a refreshing drink and a meal.5 -
jdubois5351 wrote: »
Agree, I've never had this problem! In fact my friends love how I'm available to be DD lol. And I get all the fun without any of the illness.6 -
Butterchop wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.
As a guy, I've never been told to smile, and never heard a guy been told to smile, in the same way that its told to women. Sure if a guy is looking all grumpy, maybe a friend will say to them "Don't be sad, be happy, smile more." That's completely different than going up to a stranger and saying "come on love, give us a smile" or "you would be really pretty if you smiled more" or all the other condescending, creepy ways its said to women. It's totally in your right to not find it offensive when someone does it you, but a it makes a significant number of women uncomfortable, and men should stop doing it because of that.
Like my wife actually likes it when construction workers catcall her. It makes her feel good. That's totally her right to feel that way but that doesn't make catcalling good or an okay thing to do or make it wrong that other women don't like it.
I think it's the same thing with telling a woman to smile. If the guy knows the woman well and is absolutely sure that she doesn't take offense to it (and not just going along with it to placate you), sure go ahead. But for women that they don't know well or for strangers, it's not an appropriate thing for men to do.
I actually like what you wrote. I'm a more serious and reserved person by nature and I don't go around with a phony smile planted on my face. Something funny happens or I'm happy for a reason, yes, then I will smile genuinely. I am told often by strangers in my workplace to smile because I'd be pretty. I now respond that I think I'm pretty regardless of my boring and reserved personality. I could never understand why strangers think it's at all acceptable to tell someone this type of stuff. I'd never tell an overweight stranger to lose weight to be pretty, to cut their hair to be pretty, to wear something more flattering to be pretty, etc.17 -
Butterchop wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.
As a guy, I've never been told to smile, and never heard a guy been told to smile, in the same way that its told to women. Sure if a guy is looking all grumpy, maybe a friend will say to them "Don't be sad, be happy, smile more." That's completely different than going up to a stranger and saying "come on love, give us a smile" or "you would be really pretty if you smiled more" or all the other condescending, creepy ways its said to women. It's totally in your right to not find it offensive when someone does it you, but a it makes a significant number of women uncomfortable, and men should stop doing it because of that.
Like my wife actually likes it when construction workers catcall her. It makes her feel good. That's totally her right to feel that way but that doesn't make catcalling good or an okay thing to do or make it wrong that other women don't like it.
I think it's the same thing with telling a woman to smile. If the guy knows the woman well and is absolutely sure that she doesn't take offense to it (and not just going along with it to placate you), sure go ahead. But for women that they don't know well or for strangers, it's not an appropriate thing for men to do.
No we are not told to smile.
However, to suggest that we are not told to not be ourselves is not true either. We are told to express our emotions, except anger, we are not supposed to be angry. Somehow, anger is a sin.
We are told we shouldn't be so shallow.
We are told that we are inferior when it comes to relationships. I.E. women are better at relationships and if you were only more like women... Nope, we would be redundant. The same goes for caring for children. We are not inferior, we each have areas of relative strength and weakness. If we are of equal value, then embrace the differences, don't suggest that our ways are somehow inferior, base, shallow, or other such put downs.
So even if we don't hear the exact same messages, the underlying message is the same to both men and women, you are not good enough as you are, you need to be more like _______.10 -
tbright1965 wrote: »Butterchop wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.
As a guy, I've never been told to smile, and never heard a guy been told to smile, in the same way that its told to women. Sure if a guy is looking all grumpy, maybe a friend will say to them "Don't be sad, be happy, smile more." That's completely different than going up to a stranger and saying "come on love, give us a smile" or "you would be really pretty if you smiled more" or all the other condescending, creepy ways its said to women. It's totally in your right to not find it offensive when someone does it you, but a it makes a significant number of women uncomfortable, and men should stop doing it because of that.
Like my wife actually likes it when construction workers catcall her. It makes her feel good. That's totally her right to feel that way but that doesn't make catcalling good or an okay thing to do or make it wrong that other women don't like it.
I think it's the same thing with telling a woman to smile. If the guy knows the woman well and is absolutely sure that she doesn't take offense to it (and not just going along with it to placate you), sure go ahead. But for women that they don't know well or for strangers, it's not an appropriate thing for men to do.
No we are not told to smile.
However, to suggest that we are not told to not be ourselves is not true either. We are told to express our emotions, except anger, we are not supposed to be angry. Somehow, anger is a sin.
We are told we shouldn't be so shallow.
We are told that we are inferior when it comes to relationships. I.E. women are better at relationships and if you were only more like women... Nope, we would be redundant. The same goes for caring for children. We are not inferior, we each have areas of relative strength and weakness. If we are of equal value, then embrace the differences, don't suggest that our ways are somehow inferior, base, shallow, or other such put downs.
So even if we don't hear the exact same messages, the underlying message is the same to both men and women, you are not good enough as you are, you need to be more like _______.
I am not sure I completely understand what you are trying to say, but if you are trying to suggest that somehow this behavior is okay because it is men doing what men do, then I am strongly in disagreement with that.
The way we fail boys and young men is by socializing into them that behavior like this is just "boys being boys". That women are objects and that a real man needs to be tough and can't be in touch with his emotions. That being open and crying, etc is "girly" behavior and that real men are brutes. That's how we fail our men. It's not biological. It's something that's taught.
So if you are saying what I think you are saying, then I think it in fact the exact opposite.18 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »I resent the vegetables.
They are demanding little drama queens. They protest canning by turning into metallically-tinged slime, and freezing by turning into pale mush. No, they say, if you want us tasty, we must be fresh.
"Fresh" means they must be fetched home from the store, properly stored in the fridge, washed, chopped - half the time they want peeling, too - cooked, and then cleaned up after. And, if I really want five-a-day; as soon as the next mealtime comes around, I gotta do it again.
A special diva mention goes to spinach and other leafy greens which, upon being heaped-to-overflowing in my 12-inch skillet, sautee down to one - count it, one - single serving. What would I have to use to cook three servings at once - a snow saucer?
Not to mention, that if you don't eat fresh vegetables within, oh, I don't know, 2-3 days, you're left with a slimy resemblance of what used to be baby spinach. Or was that a bell pepper?
I don't like my "healthy food" being so demanding!12 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »I resent the vegetables.
They are demanding little drama queens. They protest canning by turning into metallically-tinged slime, and freezing by turning into pale mush. No, they say, if you want us tasty, we must be fresh.
"Fresh" means they must be fetched home from the store, properly stored in the fridge, washed, chopped - half the time they want peeling, too - cooked, and then cleaned up after. And, if I really want five-a-day; as soon as the next mealtime comes around, I gotta do it again.
A special diva mention goes to spinach and other leafy greens which, upon being heaped-to-overflowing in my 12-inch skillet, sautee down to one - count it, one - single serving. What would I have to use to cook three servings at once - a snow saucer?
Not to mention, that if you don't eat fresh vegetables within, oh, I don't know, 2-3 days, you're left with a slimy resemblance of what used to be baby spinach. Or was that a bell pepper?
I don't like my "healthy food" being so demanding!
Fruits are even worse. Bananas, Avocados, Mangos, etc. They are all "unripe" until they are ripe for a whole 10 minutes and then they are spoiled.22 -
tbright1965 wrote: »Butterchop wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.
As a guy, I've never been told to smile, and never heard a guy been told to smile, in the same way that its told to women. Sure if a guy is looking all grumpy, maybe a friend will say to them "Don't be sad, be happy, smile more." That's completely different than going up to a stranger and saying "come on love, give us a smile" or "you would be really pretty if you smiled more" or all the other condescending, creepy ways its said to women. It's totally in your right to not find it offensive when someone does it you, but a it makes a significant number of women uncomfortable, and men should stop doing it because of that.
Like my wife actually likes it when construction workers catcall her. It makes her feel good. That's totally her right to feel that way but that doesn't make catcalling good or an okay thing to do or make it wrong that other women don't like it.
I think it's the same thing with telling a woman to smile. If the guy knows the woman well and is absolutely sure that she doesn't take offense to it (and not just going along with it to placate you), sure go ahead. But for women that they don't know well or for strangers, it's not an appropriate thing for men to do.
No we are not told to smile.
However, to suggest that we are not told to not be ourselves is not true either. We are told to express our emotions, except anger, we are not supposed to be angry. Somehow, anger is a sin.
We are told we shouldn't be so shallow.
We are told that we are inferior when it comes to relationships. I.E. women are better at relationships and if you were only more like women... Nope, we would be redundant. The same goes for caring for children. We are not inferior, we each have areas of relative strength and weakness. If we are of equal value, then embrace the differences, don't suggest that our ways are somehow inferior, base, shallow, or other such put downs.
So even if we don't hear the exact same messages, the underlying message is the same to both men and women, you are not good enough as you are, you need to be more like _______.
I am not sure I completely understand what you are trying to say, but if you are trying to suggest that somehow this behavior is okay because it is men doing what men do, then I am strongly in disagreement with that.
The way we fail boys and young men is by socializing into them that behavior like this is just "boys being boys". That women are objects and that a real man needs to be tough and can't be in touch with his emotions. That being open and crying, etc is "girly" behavior and that real men are brutes. That's how we fail our men. It's not biological. It's something that's taught.
So if you are saying what I think you are saying, then I think it in fact the exact opposite.
Certainly not saying any behavior that doesn't let a person be his or her self is good.
Telling the women she should smile is no different than telling the boy he cannot cry, or he can't be angry, or he shouldn't get excited when his team scores a goal.
None of those behaviors harms another person. Yet people feel it's ok to bend both men and women to their pre-conceived notions of how they should be.
"Did your dad dress you today? He really needs to learn how to put together an outfit?"
This goes beyond raising people to be better human beings. It goes into trying to fit people into the boxes we put them into in our minds.
I have to ask what you mean by socialization. If we mean treating others with respect, then yes, both men and women need some level of socialization. If we mean getting people to conform to some norm to which we adhere, I'm not so sure I buy into it.
If it's bad that the norm for women is they must be pretty and smiling, then how is it any better than the norm for men is they have to be "under control" and "not come unhinged" when their team scores or whatever.
And to clear, even though I said it before, I'm talking about behaviors that don't injure another, or destroy their property. A riot after your team wins or loses isn't what I'm writing about here.7 -
tbright1965 wrote: »Butterchop wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.
As a guy, I've never been told to smile, and never heard a guy been told to smile, in the same way that its told to women. Sure if a guy is looking all grumpy, maybe a friend will say to them "Don't be sad, be happy, smile more." That's completely different than going up to a stranger and saying "come on love, give us a smile" or "you would be really pretty if you smiled more" or all the other condescending, creepy ways its said to women. It's totally in your right to not find it offensive when someone does it you, but a it makes a significant number of women uncomfortable, and men should stop doing it because of that.
Like my wife actually likes it when construction workers catcall her. It makes her feel good. That's totally her right to feel that way but that doesn't make catcalling good or an okay thing to do or make it wrong that other women don't like it.
I think it's the same thing with telling a woman to smile. If the guy knows the woman well and is absolutely sure that she doesn't take offense to it (and not just going along with it to placate you), sure go ahead. But for women that they don't know well or for strangers, it's not an appropriate thing for men to do.
No we are not told to smile.
However, to suggest that we are not told to not be ourselves is not true either. We are told to express our emotions, except anger, we are not supposed to be angry. Somehow, anger is a sin.
We are told we shouldn't be so shallow.
We are told that we are inferior when it comes to relationships. I.E. women are better at relationships and if you were only more like women... Nope, we would be redundant. The same goes for caring for children. We are not inferior, we each have areas of relative strength and weakness. If we are of equal value, then embrace the differences, don't suggest that our ways are somehow inferior, base, shallow, or other such put downs.
So even if we don't hear the exact same messages, the underlying message is the same to both men and women, you are not good enough as you are, you need to be more like _______.
But...random strangers are not coming up to you in the street and saying "Don't be so shallow!". You're talking about societal pressures and expectations, which exist for both men and women, but that's not the same thing as being called out on the street by someone who expects you to be flattered enough to smile at them because they took the trouble to notice you.22 -
tbright1965 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »Butterchop wrote: »VanVanDiane wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Call me a douche or just old fashioned. It does not sound sexual to me. Just someone being... gasp.... nice... maybe the wrong thing to say, but I believe that people are just so freaked out by strangers. Don't get me wrong, there are dangerous people out there, but not everyone is like that. I think people need to speak to each other more. A good day probably would have been better, but just maybe, just maybe, he was just being nice. Or maybe, a pervert. Who knows?
I think the poster before you got it right - how many men get told by women ' Come on love give us a smile'? I'd be genuinely interested to know if that has happened to any of you guys. It's happened to me a lot - I'm not a doll to smile on command sweetheart...
I actually hear this being said a lot to some GUYS I work with. They always frown and people are constantly telling them they need to smile. They never take it sexual at all. It also happens to me quite a bit and isn't really a big deal. Annoying yes but mostly people are trying to be nice. This girl I work with tells me more than anyone but she is always smiling and I'm not much of a smiler.
As a guy, I've never been told to smile, and never heard a guy been told to smile, in the same way that its told to women. Sure if a guy is looking all grumpy, maybe a friend will say to them "Don't be sad, be happy, smile more." That's completely different than going up to a stranger and saying "come on love, give us a smile" or "you would be really pretty if you smiled more" or all the other condescending, creepy ways its said to women. It's totally in your right to not find it offensive when someone does it you, but a it makes a significant number of women uncomfortable, and men should stop doing it because of that.
Like my wife actually likes it when construction workers catcall her. It makes her feel good. That's totally her right to feel that way but that doesn't make catcalling good or an okay thing to do or make it wrong that other women don't like it.
I think it's the same thing with telling a woman to smile. If the guy knows the woman well and is absolutely sure that she doesn't take offense to it (and not just going along with it to placate you), sure go ahead. But for women that they don't know well or for strangers, it's not an appropriate thing for men to do.
No we are not told to smile.
However, to suggest that we are not told to not be ourselves is not true either. We are told to express our emotions, except anger, we are not supposed to be angry. Somehow, anger is a sin.
We are told we shouldn't be so shallow.
We are told that we are inferior when it comes to relationships. I.E. women are better at relationships and if you were only more like women... Nope, we would be redundant. The same goes for caring for children. We are not inferior, we each have areas of relative strength and weakness. If we are of equal value, then embrace the differences, don't suggest that our ways are somehow inferior, base, shallow, or other such put downs.
So even if we don't hear the exact same messages, the underlying message is the same to both men and women, you are not good enough as you are, you need to be more like _______.
I am not sure I completely understand what you are trying to say, but if you are trying to suggest that somehow this behavior is okay because it is men doing what men do, then I am strongly in disagreement with that.
The way we fail boys and young men is by socializing into them that behavior like this is just "boys being boys". That women are objects and that a real man needs to be tough and can't be in touch with his emotions. That being open and crying, etc is "girly" behavior and that real men are brutes. That's how we fail our men. It's not biological. It's something that's taught.
So if you are saying what I think you are saying, then I think it in fact the exact opposite.
Certainly not saying any behavior that doesn't let a person be his or her self is good.
Telling the women she should smile is no different than telling the boy he cannot cry, or he can't be angry, or he shouldn't get excited when his team scores a goal.
None of those behaviors harms another person. Yet people feel it's ok to bend both men and women to their pre-conceived notions of how they should be.
"Did your dad dress you today? He really needs to learn how to put together an outfit?"
This goes beyond raising people to be better human beings. It goes into trying to fit people into the boxes we put them into in our minds.
I have to ask what you mean by socialization. If we mean treating others with respect, then yes, both men and women need some level of socialization. If we mean getting people to conform to some norm to which we adhere, I'm not so sure I buy into it.
If it's bad that the norm for women is they must be pretty and smiling, then how is it any better than the norm for men is they have to be "under control" and "not come unhinged" when their team scores or whatever.
And to clear, even though I said it before, I'm talking about behaviors that don't injure another, or destroy their property. A riot after your team wins or loses isn't what I'm writing about here.
I agree with you that we should not restrict people from being themselves as long as it does not result in negative behavior directed towards others. But I think we are in disagreement about what men are being restricted from.
I don't think we restrict men from showing aggression. I think it is the opposite. I think from a young age, we teach boys that being aggressive is what "it means to be a man". Instead we try to repress vulnerability, sadness, and emotional connection. That is the behavior we try to try to repress through "socialization". We tell boys that only girls talk about their feelings, and "boys don't cry". That leads to us teaching men that bad behavior towards women is okay because they don't need to worry about what others are feeling and that real men objectify women.
I think most men are emotional creatures just like women are, they want to be vulnerable, and form complex, emotional relationships with others, both in friendship and romantically, but many are unable to do that because they have repressed those feelings since childhood.12 -
I agree with you that we should not restrict people from being themselves as long as it does not result in negative behavior directed towards others. But I think we are in disagreement about what men are being restricted from.
I don't think we restrict men from showing aggression. I think it is the opposite. I think from a young age, we teach boys that being aggressive is what "it means to be a man". Instead we try to repress vulnerability, sadness, and emotional connection. That is the behavior we try to try to repress through "socialization". We tell boys that only girls talk about their feelings, and "boys don't cry". That leads to us teaching men that bad behavior towards women is okay because they don't need to worry about what others are feeling and that real men objectify women.
I think most men are emotional creatures just like women are, they want to be vulnerable, and form complex, emotional relationships with others, both in friendship and romantically, but many are unable to do that because they have repressed those feelings since childhood.
Do they repress it or just express things differently.
If you've ever read a relationship book, or picked up your mom/sister/wife/girlfriend's coffee table reading, or watch an Oprah style show, you see where the message is men need to change how they approach relationships. They are too angry, or too repressed, or too shallow, or too carnal, or....
I recall an incident about 20+ years ago in the car with my now ex-wife. Probably should have been a red flag now that I look back, but stay with me.
She was reading a Cosmo article and this woman asked why her man didn't seem like he wanted to be around her. The whole list of reasons was things he might be doing wrong. I.E. he might be cheating, he might be stressed at work, he might not really love you....
Nothing suggesting she look at her behavior or anything she may have done. I pointed this out to her and you would think I called her baby ugly. It was inconceivable to her that a woman might have done something wrong in a relationship.
I guess I shouldn't have been shocked that not only did she have an affair when we were married, but somehow it was my fault she chose to have an affair instead of just using her words and having an adult conversation about what she wanted from our relationship that she wasn't getting.
So my point is, there are plenty of people out there, many of them writing books, magazine articles, hosting TV shows, and now on the Interwebs who have no problem suggesting that men need to change their behavior.
Ideas like men are having more affairs than women.
Really? Are they having them with other men? Probably not, meaning the representation of the sexes in affairs is pretty much equal.
But somehow, it's men who have to change their behavior and women are merely victims of that behavior.
Sorry, not buying it.
I'm certainly not a Red-Pill kind of guy. But seeing what passes for professional counsel, I can understand why men buy into it.9 -
Jeez! This is turning into a discussion on smiling. Maybe a new thread?
"And now, here's something we hope you'll really like." -Rocket J. Squirrel
I like being well hydrated, but man, all the trips to the bathroom?
20 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »I resent the vegetables.
They are demanding little drama queens. They protest canning by turning into metallically-tinged slime, and freezing by turning into pale mush. No, they say, if you want us tasty, we must be fresh.
"Fresh" means they must be fetched home from the store, properly stored in the fridge, washed, chopped - half the time they want peeling, too - cooked, and then cleaned up after. And, if I really want five-a-day; as soon as the next mealtime comes around, I gotta do it again.
A special diva mention goes to spinach and other leafy greens which, upon being heaped-to-overflowing in my 12-inch skillet, sautee down to one - count it, one - single serving. What would I have to use to cook three servings at once - a snow saucer?
Not to mention, that if you don't eat fresh vegetables within, oh, I don't know, 2-3 days, you're left with a slimy resemblance of what used to be baby spinach. Or was that a bell pepper?
I don't like my "healthy food" being so demanding!
Fruits are even worse. Bananas, Avocados, Mangos, etc. They are all "unripe" until they are ripe for a whole 10 minutes and then they are spoiled.
Freakin' bananas!
5 -
tbright1965 wrote: »I agree with you that we should not restrict people from being themselves as long as it does not result in negative behavior directed towards others. But I think we are in disagreement about what men are being restricted from.
I don't think we restrict men from showing aggression. I think it is the opposite. I think from a young age, we teach boys that being aggressive is what "it means to be a man". Instead we try to repress vulnerability, sadness, and emotional connection. That is the behavior we try to try to repress through "socialization". We tell boys that only girls talk about their feelings, and "boys don't cry". That leads to us teaching men that bad behavior towards women is okay because they don't need to worry about what others are feeling and that real men objectify women.
I think most men are emotional creatures just like women are, they want to be vulnerable, and form complex, emotional relationships with others, both in friendship and romantically, but many are unable to do that because they have repressed those feelings since childhood.
Do they repress it or just express things differently.
If you've ever read a relationship book, or picked up your mom/sister/wife/girlfriend's coffee table reading, or watch an Oprah style show, you see where the message is men need to change how they approach relationships. They are too angry, or too repressed, or too shallow, or too carnal, or....
I recall an incident about 20+ years ago in the car with my now ex-wife. Probably should have been a red flag now that I look back, but stay with me.
She was reading a Cosmo article and this woman asked why her man didn't seem like he wanted to be around her. The whole list of reasons was things he might be doing wrong. I.E. he might be cheating, he might be stressed at work, he might not really love you....
Nothing suggesting she look at her behavior or anything she may have done. I pointed this out to her and you would think I called her baby ugly. It was inconceivable to her that a woman might have done something wrong in a relationship.
I guess I shouldn't have been shocked that not only did she have an affair when we were married, but somehow it was my fault she chose to have an affair instead of just using her words and having an adult conversation about what she wanted from our relationship that she wasn't getting.
So my point is, there are plenty of people out there, many of them writing books, magazine articles, hosting TV shows, and now on the Interwebs who have no problem suggesting that men need to change their behavior.
Ideas like men are having more affairs than women.
Really? Are they having them with other men? Probably not, meaning the representation of the sexes in affairs is pretty much equal.
But somehow, it's men who have to change their behavior and women are merely victims of that behavior.
Sorry, not buying it.
I'm certainly not a Red-Pill kind of guy. But seeing what passes for professional counsel, I can understand why men buy into it.
There's an awful lot of gendered assumptions in here. I get that you seem to be from a different generation than me so that these things are more internalized in you than they are in me.
But my wife doesn't have coffee table reading or watch Oprah style shows. She did have a countdown clock for when the last Avengers movie came out tho.
You haven't gotten much relationship advice lately if you think it's only all about how "men need to change". I've never seen any relationship advice like that.
That you brought up Red Pill at all is disturbing and that's a rabbit whole I don't want to with you, certainly not on this thread that has been hijacked enough. But this idea that men or oppressed or mistreated and they need to lash out in misogynistic and violent ways in bonkers and anyone who feels this way needs to look at themselves as an individual and fix themselves.
Because overall we still live in a society that is favorable to us and all one has to do to be respected and live well with others is to not be a jerk. It's really not that hard.
Anyways that is all for me (well, I'll try) on this topic, so we can get back to talking about diets and working out.23
This discussion has been closed.
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