April 2019 Monthly Running Challenge

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  • noblsheep
    noblsheep Posts: 584 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    ERF.

    A LATE JUNE trail race... I must be nuts....

    https://www.hellhathnohurry.org

    But strongly considering the 30k or 50k distance...

    I'm thinking about an HM in May. I must be nuts too.
  • runnermom419
    runnermom419 Posts: 366 Member
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    runnermom419 wrote: »
    runnermom419 wrote: »
    runnermom419 wrote: »
    runnermom419 wrote: »
    runnermom419 wrote: »
    Well, my original goal in March was 80 miles and I ended the month with 101 miles. I'd like to be in for 100 miles again as goal #1 with a stretch goal of 110 miles for goal #2.

    We shall see!

    April 1 - 5 miles

    Miles until Goal # 1 - 95 miles
    Miles until Goal #2 - 105 miles

    April 3 - 3.3 miles. Did some speed work and felt really good.

    Miles until Goal #1 - 91.7 miles
    Miles until Goal #2 - 101.7 miles

    April 5 - 3.1 miles
    April 6 - 13.1 miles
    =16.2 miles

    Miles until goal #1 = 75.5 miles
    Miles until goal #2 = 85.5 miles

    I wanted to see how a few miles felt on drained legs after yesterday's half marathon. The first mile was rough as I worked through some tightness and stiffness, but felt great after that.

    April 7 - 3.3 miles

    27.8 miles for the month

    Miles until goal #1 (100 miles) = 72.2 miles
    Miles until goal #2 (110 miles) = 82.2 miles

    April 9 - 3 miles of speed work
    April 10 - 3.16 miles
    = 6.16 miles

    33.96 miles for the month

    Miles until goal #1 (100 miles) - 66.04 miles
    Miles until goal #2 (110 miles) - 76.04 miles
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    _nikkiwolf_ wrote: »

    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Funny image seen on facebook:
    djhpnsoydd3o.png
    (original source unknown)
    Dang, I hope the opposite isn't true, or else I'm not a runner. I never think 3.1 miles when I read 5k. I hardly ever think miles anything :tongue:

    Yeah, I guess it is a bit American centric, but I think you get the spirit of it :p


    _nikkiwolf_ wrote: »

    Speaking of races, I just decided I should sign up for one! My last "official" race is more than a year ago (I only did two Zombies Run virtual races last year). Within the next two month, I only found three races to chose from:
    • a 10k (10.7km actually) near me (<30 min drive) next weekend.
      30CHF, a "souvenir price" instead of medal or shirt (2017 it was a water bottle with the race logo). One aid station. Elevation +/- 230m (750ft).
    • a 20k race an hour away in the first week of May. 35CHF (including a shirt), plus 7CHF more if you want a medal. 5 aid stations. Elevation +/-297m (975ft).
    • a half marathon near me (<30 min) the second week of May. 70CHF including shirt and medal, and five aid stations. Net downhill: +65m/-115m (=213ft//377ft).

    So, which one of those three would you guys have chosen?
    (most of you probably all three, right? :mrgreen: )

    So a 10k, 20k or a half? I would say if you are only going to do one look more out which one seems like the better course and best organized. Look for the "most fun" to you one, and do that one. The one you will enjoy most will motivate your training the most. IMO and all that. :)
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
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    @ddmom0811 Thanks! I dont know what I'm doing academically... Today we're going for DD. I'm just collecting credits as a hobby- classes I think are cool. Who knows if it'll amount to anything. I felt like i needed to invest in my interests, and dh gets tired of my questions and self study in areas I'm obsessed with. Said "omg, go back to school" haha! Okie dokie. DD is science oriented too. Can't wait to see her test placement.

    I dont like Panera's cold chicken either, i think my teeth are to sensitive for that cold cold chicken. If it were even slightly warmed it'd be more palatable. I usually do the steak and arugula sandwich on sourdough, extra steak and chips (crisps).
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    _nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Elise4270 wrote: »
    simcon1 wrote: »

    I went to my $30 foot/back massage place last night and then ran 5 miles today :30/mile faster than normal, which has been a consistent post-massage phenomenon. I think I might want to plan one the night before I head up to Vancouver...

    Here’s a question: I’m wondering how to pace myself on the half marathon (it’s my first). It may not be an issue at all, because I may be only able to run as fast as I’ve been running my long runs (around 10:30 pace). I’m just not sure quite what to expect and would welcome pointers. I feel like I should worry about starting too fast and losing steam, but am unclear whether that’s really much of a concern for me (because I’m not sure I could “start fast” even if I wanted to!)

    Massage for does wonders for my form. I find my pace and distance are much improved too.

    You've done races before, right? For me the adrenaline and excitement pushes my race pace quite a bit faster than my training pace.

    So how best to pace for the half? Figure your ideal finish time and just keep an eye on your time/pace, maybe settle in with a pace group. If you find yourself ahead, play it by ear, maybe walk an aid station. I try to hold back until mile 9. 11is where i get "WTF"- Wheres The Finish. So plan for the last few miles to catch up to you. Or if you feel good, light it up the last mile or so. And dont get to smug passing everyone 😏

    Best of luck! Well be rooting for you! And dont forget to take mental notes for your race report!

    So there are several ways to look at pacing...

    The most widely accepted "best" way is even pace throughout the race. Pick the pace that means you are completely spent as you cross the line, but not any sooner, and that will get you the best time possible for your body/etc.

    BUT it is also wildly understood that almost no one can actually do that well, what most people end up doing it working out a goal time, say 2 hours 30 minutes, and then attempt to pace for that. Pretty sure that is what @Elise4270 is describing. This is what I normally tell people to try and do as it is the simplest and if they are conservative with their goal time they are less likely to get hurt.


    The "next best" is what is called "negative splits" That is you START SLOW and late in the race pick up speed. This is a tough balancing act that I personally have never mastered.

    The "worst way" is what I normally do :D "Postive Splits" that is you run the first part of the race too fast and can not keep up the pace so you fade long before the finish and force yourself to complete the race on pure force of will and being too stubborn to accept a DNF. :D
    Actually, I think I've most often read that "negative splits" is the best pacing strategy. At least that's when supposedly most PRs / world records etc happen (see e.g. https://blog.strava.com/de/negative-split-positive-results-12386/ ). But it seems rather counter-intuitive - you have to hold back in the beginning and "trust" that you will not be too tired in the end to speed up.


    Lots of interesting articles on pacing actually - I just found for example this one. It's based on the Berlin Marathon. It claims that "While men and women both start fast, women tend to moderate their early pacing more efficiently than men. As a result they slow down less than men during the latter stages of the race, and they speed-up more for the final segment.". And the article claims that nen are significantly more likely to "hit the wall" than women across all finish-times.
    On pacing strategies vs finishing times: "When we look at the pacing of runners who achieve a BQ time (by definition, those runners who fast for their age) we see a more even pacing profile. BQ runners still tend to start fast, but only about 2% faster than their mean race pace, and they still finish more slowly, but not as slowly as regular runners".
    And they have numbers how many runners actually run negative splits (approximately 12–14% in that race).

    There's a more scienc-y written paper on the New York marathon, looking at pacing stategies vs age and performance. According to this the faster runners showed smaller changes of speed during the race (and also that within a performance group, older (experienced) runners pace more evenly). Of course, this does not mean that you will be a faster runner if you have a more even pace stategy ;-)


    Personally, I like the strategy the races2remember paceband shop calls "smart pacing": a graduated slower start, a strong middle and a cushion at the end. In theory. In reality, I always go out too fast for the first kilometre, but I think I'm getting a tiny bit better at avoiding that / catching it early ^^

    I say the best way is the way that works for you. :)

    There has been a lot of back and forth on negative splits vs even pace. I have not done an actual count, but I see "even pace is best but most people do better with negative splits in practice" seeming to be the most common advice.

    But again, in the end, the best way is the way that works for you. I think in GENERAL for MOST of us starting slow and seeing how things go is the best GENERIC advice since most of us freely admit we start too fast. :)
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    _nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    Elise4270 wrote: »
    simcon1 wrote: »

    I went to my $30 foot/back massage place last night and then ran 5 miles today :30/mile faster than normal, which has been a consistent post-massage phenomenon. I think I might want to plan one the night before I head up to Vancouver...

    Here’s a question: I’m wondering how to pace myself on the half marathon (it’s my first). It may not be an issue at all, because I may be only able to run as fast as I’ve been running my long runs (around 10:30 pace). I’m just not sure quite what to expect and would welcome pointers. I feel like I should worry about starting too fast and losing steam, but am unclear whether that’s really much of a concern for me (because I’m not sure I could “start fast” even if I wanted to!)

    Massage for does wonders for my form. I find my pace and distance are much improved too.

    You've done races before, right? For me the adrenaline and excitement pushes my race pace quite a bit faster than my training pace.

    So how best to pace for the half? Figure your ideal finish time and just keep an eye on your time/pace, maybe settle in with a pace group. If you find yourself ahead, play it by ear, maybe walk an aid station. I try to hold back until mile 9. 11is where i get "WTF"- Wheres The Finish. So plan for the last few miles to catch up to you. Or if you feel good, light it up the last mile or so. And dont get to smug passing everyone 😏

    Best of luck! Well be rooting for you! And dont forget to take mental notes for your race report!

    So there are several ways to look at pacing...

    The most widely accepted "best" way is even pace throughout the race. Pick the pace that means you are completely spent as you cross the line, but not any sooner, and that will get you the best time possible for your body/etc.

    BUT it is also wildly understood that almost no one can actually do that well, what most people end up doing it working out a goal time, say 2 hours 30 minutes, and then attempt to pace for that. Pretty sure that is what @Elise4270 is describing. This is what I normally tell people to try and do as it is the simplest and if they are conservative with their goal time they are less likely to get hurt.


    The "next best" is what is called "negative splits" That is you START SLOW and late in the race pick up speed. This is a tough balancing act that I personally have never mastered.

    The "worst way" is what I normally do :D "Postive Splits" that is you run the first part of the race too fast and can not keep up the pace so you fade long before the finish and force yourself to complete the race on pure force of will and being too stubborn to accept a DNF. :D
    Actually, I think I've most often read that "negative splits" is the best pacing strategy. At least that's when supposedly most PRs / world records etc happen (see e.g. https://blog.strava.com/de/negative-split-positive-results-12386/ ). But it seems rather counter-intuitive - you have to hold back in the beginning and "trust" that you will not be too tired in the end to speed up.


    Lots of interesting articles on pacing actually - I just found for example this one. It's based on the Berlin Marathon. It claims that "While men and women both start fast, women tend to moderate their early pacing more efficiently than men. As a result they slow down less than men during the latter stages of the race, and they speed-up more for the final segment.". And the article claims that nen are significantly more likely to "hit the wall" than women across all finish-times.
    On pacing strategies vs finishing times: "When we look at the pacing of runners who achieve a BQ time (by definition, those runners who fast for their age) we see a more even pacing profile. BQ runners still tend to start fast, but only about 2% faster than their mean race pace, and they still finish more slowly, but not as slowly as regular runners".
    And they have numbers how many runners actually run negative splits (approximately 12–14% in that race).

    There's a more scienc-y written paper on the New York marathon, looking at pacing stategies vs age and performance. According to this the faster runners showed smaller changes of speed during the race (and also that within a performance group, older (experienced) runners pace more evenly). Of course, this does not mean that you will be a faster runner if you have a more even pace stategy ;-)


    Personally, I like the strategy the races2remember paceband shop calls "smart pacing": a graduated slower start, a strong middle and a cushion at the end. In theory. In reality, I always go out too fast for the first kilometre, but I think I'm getting a tiny bit better at avoiding that / catching it early ^^

    I say the best way is the way that works for you. :)

    There has been a lot of back and forth on negative splits vs even pace. I have not done an actual count, but I see "even pace is best but most people do better with negative splits in practice" seeming to be the most common advice.

    But again, in the end, the best way is the way that works for you. I think in GENERAL for MOST of us starting slow and seeing how things go is the best GENERIC advice since most of us freely admit we start too fast. :)

    The exception to this advice against going out too fast seems to be novice runners at short distances, who according to a recent study may do better when they go out faster than planned, because they underestimate their abilities. The study looked at 5k if I remember correctly, and I’ve had good success going out hard at 5k - there’s not really enough distance to bonk, so even if you fade towards the end, it’s not enough to counteract the early speed. 10k, on the other hand, seems to be a whole different ballgame, for me at least.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    _nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
    Elise4270 wrote: »
    ... The speaker in my phone is broken so i cant talk on the phone. (Im not a peapol person any way) hey i like that "peapol". Best way of spelling it evah! Haha! I cant spell. But i dug out some paperwork yesterday and ran across my old act scores, 96 percentile nationally in science. So guess there has to be give and take. Oh, point was: so dh is finally considering replacing my phone
    @Elise4270 "considering to replace it"?? A phone with which you can't make phone calls sounds 100% replacement-worthy to me. But maybe I'm old-fashined for considering a phone a device to make phone calls with :tongue: :mrgreen:
    Hugs on the sore leg, Yay for walking with just one crutch!

    Wait... you can talk on those things? huh.
  • juliet3455
    juliet3455 Posts: 3,015 Member
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    amymoreorless wrote: »
    My time sucked but I am finding myself caring less and less about all that lately.
    Running is a lot more fun when it doesn't feel like punishing work all the time.
    @amymoreorless I am right there with you
    martaindale wrote: »
    stay away from the bitey end, don't try to jump over them and don't get between their mouth and the water.
    @martaindale That has to be the best low key comment I have read in a long time.

    @jele30 Some times it's just about impossible to truly keep up to everything/every person on this thread. That's why occasionally you just have to jump forward and give a blanket accolade. We do get a little chatty some times.

    @Elise4270 glad to hear you are gaining some more mobility/freedom. You have maintained such a positive attitude that we all want to give you a HUG - knowing how much you love hugs ;)o:)

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