There are many great evils in the world; this ain't one of them.
That being said, they (Macy's or whomever it was) should be allowed to sell them if they like.
'Bad Taste' should also be protected speech.
I'm not sure how this would be related to protected speech (in the US). The US government isn't saying, "you can't say this", rather Macy's pulled the item(s). I also highly doubt that the plates would fall under hate speech (which is protected in the First Amendment regardless).
Yeah, that's true. After I typed the post, I thought: This probably doesn't fall under Government protected free speech. ( I just got busy and didn't take the time to edit the post.)
As a liberal, I suppose that I am just a little paranoid about our liberties being eroded from any angle.
To be fair, you wouldn't think wbc's shenanigans ought to fall under protected speech either, but the courts ruled they do.
There are many great evils in the world; this ain't one of them.
That being said, they (Macy's or whomever it was) should be allowed to sell them if they like.
'Bad Taste' should also be protected speech.
I'm not sure how this would be related to protected speech (in the US). The US government isn't saying, "you can't say this", rather Macy's pulled the item(s). I also highly doubt that the plates would fall under hate speech (which is protected in the First Amendment regardless).
Yeah, that's true. After I typed the post, I thought: This probably doesn't fall under Government protected free speech. ( I just got busy and didn't take the time to edit the post.)
As a liberal, I suppose that I am just a little paranoid about our liberties being eroded from any angle.
To be fair, you wouldn't think wbc's shenanigans ought to fall under protected speech either, but the courts ruled they do.
There are many great evils in the world; this ain't one of them.
That being said, they (Macy's or whomever it was) should be allowed to sell them if they like.
'Bad Taste' should also be protected speech.
I'm not sure how this would be related to protected speech (in the US). The US government isn't saying, "you can't say this", rather Macy's pulled the item(s). I also highly doubt that the plates would fall under hate speech (which is protected in the First Amendment regardless).
Yeah, that's true. After I typed the post, I thought: This probably doesn't fall under Government protected free speech. ( I just got busy and didn't take the time to edit the post.)
As a liberal, I suppose that I am just a little paranoid about our liberties being eroded from any angle.
The thing about free speech is that it applies to all parties. That means while it applies to Macy's ability to sell this plate, it also applies to people's right to complain to them about the plate. Free speech doesn't guarantee this plate a right that Macy's had to sell it, and they ultimately have the right to decide whether or not they want to continue selling it. They probably looked at this plate and decided pretty quickly that it wasn't exactly a on fire selling item that was worth dealing with any backlash.
There are many great evils in the world; this ain't one of them.
That being said, they (Macy's or whomever it was) should be allowed to sell them if they like.
'Bad Taste' should also be protected speech.
I'm not sure how this would be related to protected speech (in the US). The US government isn't saying, "you can't say this", rather Macy's pulled the item(s). I also highly doubt that the plates would fall under hate speech (which is protected in the First Amendment regardless).
Yeah, that's true. After I typed the post, I thought: This probably doesn't fall under Government protected free speech. ( I just got busy and didn't take the time to edit the post.)
As a liberal, I suppose that I am just a little paranoid about our liberties being eroded from any angle.
To be fair, you wouldn't think wbc's shenanigans ought to fall under protected speech either, but the courts ruled they do.
However, as vile as it is, it should be protected.
.... slippery slopes
@Motorsheen oh man I can't even begin to tell you just what I think of them, can't even lol. Suffice to say we're in mucho agreement.
My point was that, it seems moving forward from approximately that point in time I believe we will see the lines blurred further on what is, or is not considered free speech, up to and including what should probably inconsequential events such as this.
There are many great evils in the world; this ain't one of them.
That being said, they (Macy's or whomever it was) should be allowed to sell them if they like.
'Bad Taste' should also be protected speech.
I'm not sure how this would be related to protected speech (in the US). The US government isn't saying, "you can't say this", rather Macy's pulled the item(s). I also highly doubt that the plates would fall under hate speech (which is protected in the First Amendment regardless).
Yeah, that's true. After I typed the post, I thought: This probably doesn't fall under Government protected free speech. ( I just got busy and didn't take the time to edit the post.)
As a liberal, I suppose that I am just a little paranoid about our liberties being eroded from any angle.
The thing about free speech is that it applies to all parties. That means while it applies to Macy's ability to sell this plate, it also applies to people's right to complain to them about the plate. Free speech doesn't guarantee this plate a right that Macy's had to sell it, and they ultimately have the right to decide whether or not they want to continue selling it. They probably looked at this plate and decided pretty quickly that it wasn't exactly a on fire selling item that was worth dealing with any backlash.
There are many great evils in the world; this ain't one of them.
That being said, they (Macy's or whomever it was) should be allowed to sell them if they like.
'Bad Taste' should also be protected speech.
I'm not sure how this would be related to protected speech (in the US). The US government isn't saying, "you can't say this", rather Macy's pulled the item(s). I also highly doubt that the plates would fall under hate speech (which is protected in the First Amendment regardless).
Yeah, that's true. After I typed the post, I thought: This probably doesn't fall under Government protected free speech. ( I just got busy and didn't take the time to edit the post.)
As a liberal, I suppose that I am just a little paranoid about our liberties being eroded from any angle.
To be fair, you wouldn't think wbc's shenanigans ought to fall under protected speech either, but the courts ruled they do.
However, as vile as it is, it should be protected.
.... slippery slopes
@Motorsheen oh man I can't even begin to tell you just what I think of them, can't even lol. Suffice to say we're in mucho agreement.
My point was that, it seems moving forward from approximately that point in time I believe we will see the lines blurred further on what is, or is not considered free speech, up to and including what should probably inconsequential events such as this.
Just my $0.02 is all.
WBC is fringe with motivations that evidently go beyond political.
There will always be fringe groups on every side of the spectrum.
imho - they are evil & evil doesn't always hide in the shadows. Let them be seen and heard for what they are.
It's not fat shaming, but it's not helpful, may be harmful to those already suffering disorders, and isn't even slightly funny.
I challenge even one person who said its "just a joke" to honestly say they even smiled at these things.
I also challenge stores to try harder.
...
It's Macy's choice to carry this item (or not), as comically vapid as it might be.
Yes, I keep seeing this. It's "their choice" or it "should be their choice."
It is. But also, choice goes both ways. If they get to choose to carry these things, other people get to choose to publicly criticize them for it, and both sides are not immune to the consequences of their choices. Macy's consequence may be loss of business. Critics' consequence may be having people mock them.
This is how choice works. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend for so many people. And (soapbox, not directed at anyone) seriously, everyone shut the eff up about how easily offended people are. I don't have to be offended by something to think it's a bad idea. Stop dismissing legitimate comments because "lol offended." You really prefer we all just shut up and laugh because we were told to like a bunch of friggin brainwashed idiots? Stop shutting your damn brains off and LISTEN. And if you don't agree in the end, at least have the decency to not be a donkey about it.
It's not fat shaming, but it's not helpful, may be harmful to those already suffering disorders, and isn't even slightly funny.
I challenge even one person who said its "just a joke" to honestly say they even smiled at these things.
I also challenge stores to try harder.
...
It's Macy's choice to carry this item (or not), as comically vapid as it might be.
Yes, I keep seeing this. It's "their choice" or it "should be their choice."
It is. But also, choice goes both ways. If they get to choose to carry these things, other people get to choose to publicly criticize them for it, and both sides are not immune to the consequences of their choices. Macy's consequence may be loss of business. Critics' consequence may be having people mock them.
This is how choice works. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend for so many people. And (soapbox, not directed at anyone) seriously, everyone shut the eff up about how easily offended people are. I don't have to be offended by something to think it's a bad idea. Stop dismissing legitimate comments because "lol offended." You really prefer we all just shut up and laugh because we were told to like a bunch of friggin brainwashed idiots? Stop shutting your damn brains off and LISTEN. And if you don't agree in the end, at least have the decency to not be a donkey about it.
While I don't disagree, I'd rather see people simply move on than raise a fuss over something that, I think, is insignificant. If they don't think it's insignificant, then fine... but not everything can be significant, and some of those people are complaining for all the wrong reasons. It's a bit of a fine line, sure.
However, as vile as it is, it should be protected.
.... slippery slopes
Might I ask what is WBC?
Westboro Baptist Church. They are essentially a large extended family living in Topeka, Kansas that, among other things, pickets the funerals of LGBTQ people, pickets the funerals of military veterans (who may or may not be LGBTQ), blamed 9/11 on gay people (through some interesting mental gymnastics), etc. There's more information about them on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website here.
They're also a very good example of how far one can push freedom of speech laws. The ACLU has written about them in relation to this a number of times, including in this blog post.
Companies should market items they believe would appeal to their customer base. People who are offended can give them feedback to that effect. People who find the item appealing can give the company feedback by purchases and positive reviews. The vast majority who don't care one way or the other can ignore the whole thing.
I think the amount of scrutiny and pushback that occurs is directly related to how well companies know their target audience. Catalogs like Harriet Carter and Carol Wright carry items on every other page that even I find vulgar and offensive (and I'm very broad-minded) but I dont see much in the way of protests which tells me they're probably doing a good job gauging what would be funny or appealing to their specific customer base.
However, as vile as it is, it should be protected.
.... slippery slopes
Might I ask what is WBC?
Westboro Baptist Church. They are essentially a large extended family living in Topeka, Kansas that, among other things, pickets the funerals of LGBTQ people, pickets the funerals of military veterans (who may or may not be LGBTQ), blamed 9/11 on gay people (through some interesting mental gymnastics), etc. There's more information about them on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website here.
They're also a very good example of how far one can push freedom of speech laws. The ACLU has written about them in relation to this a number of times, including in this blog post.
Ah, I have heard of them. Gives Baptists a really bad name - especially cringeworthy for me because I"m a Baptist and they ain't even in the same city let alone the same ballpark in what Baptists in general believe!
However, as vile as it is, it should be protected.
.... slippery slopes
Might I ask what is WBC?
Westboro Baptist Church. They are essentially a large extended family living in Topeka, Kansas that, among other things, pickets the funerals of LGBTQ people, pickets the funerals of military veterans (who may or may not be LGBTQ), blamed 9/11 on gay people (through some interesting mental gymnastics), etc. There's more information about them on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website here.
They're also a very good example of how far one can push freedom of speech laws. The ACLU has written about them in relation to this a number of times, including in this blog post.
Ah, I have heard of them. Gives Baptists a really bad name - especially cringeworthy for me because I"m a Baptist and they ain't even in the same city let alone the same ballpark in what Baptists in general believe!
Yeah - they're awful. While I'm not Christian, I've never considered them to be representative of Baptists, even when I was far less religious than I am now.
i think i would have less issues if it were equally marketed towards men as women, but it wasn't and there is where i have issue with - its potentially exploiting a vulnerabilty that many women have about body image to make a buck (FWIW - i eat about the same amount as mom jeans but def. don't need them)
It's part of a collection with the same design. There was another plate in the collection that had something about men in it.
then i have less issue with it - i still like the idea of my dad bod beer mug though
However, as vile as it is, it should be protected.
.... slippery slopes
Might I ask what is WBC?
Westboro Baptist Church. They are essentially a large extended family living in Topeka, Kansas that, among other things, pickets the funerals of LGBTQ people, pickets the funerals of military veterans (who may or may not be LGBTQ), blamed 9/11 on gay people (through some interesting mental gymnastics), etc. There's more information about them on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website here.
They're also a very good example of how far one can push freedom of speech laws. The ACLU has written about them in relation to this a number of times, including in this blog post.
Ah, I have heard of them. Gives Baptists a really bad name - especially cringeworthy for me because I"m a Baptist and they ain't even in the same city let alone the same ballpark in what Baptists in general believe!
Fortunately, I think most people realize that. I'm not Baptist, but due to geography I know many, many people who are...and while I don't agree with them on a lot of things, they are on the whole much much more accepting, kind, good folks than WBC!
Replies
As a joke, it was pretty lame.
Although, there's no accounting for what others might find entertaining.
Case in point: Check out network television programming.
It's Macy's choice to carry this item (or not), as comically vapid as it might be.
@Phirrgus
I loathe WBC, Loathe.
However, as vile as it is, it should be protected.
.... slippery slopes
The thing about free speech is that it applies to all parties. That means while it applies to Macy's ability to sell this plate, it also applies to people's right to complain to them about the plate. Free speech doesn't guarantee this plate a right that Macy's had to sell it, and they ultimately have the right to decide whether or not they want to continue selling it. They probably looked at this plate and decided pretty quickly that it wasn't exactly a on fire selling item that was worth dealing with any backlash.
@Motorsheen oh man I can't even begin to tell you just what I think of them, can't even lol. Suffice to say we're in mucho agreement.
My point was that, it seems moving forward from approximately that point in time I believe we will see the lines blurred further on what is, or is not considered free speech, up to and including what should probably inconsequential events such as this.
Just my $0.02 is all.
@MikePTY
That's exactly right. Thankfully so.
I have no idea about about Macy's exact motivations, but your thoughts make complete sense.
WBC is fringe with motivations that evidently go beyond political.
There will always be fringe groups on every side of the spectrum.
imho - they are evil & evil doesn't always hide in the shadows. Let them be seen and heard for what they are.
Yes, I keep seeing this. It's "their choice" or it "should be their choice."
It is. But also, choice goes both ways. If they get to choose to carry these things, other people get to choose to publicly criticize them for it, and both sides are not immune to the consequences of their choices. Macy's consequence may be loss of business. Critics' consequence may be having people mock them.
This is how choice works. I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend for so many people. And (soapbox, not directed at anyone) seriously, everyone shut the eff up about how easily offended people are. I don't have to be offended by something to think it's a bad idea. Stop dismissing legitimate comments because "lol offended." You really prefer we all just shut up and laugh because we were told to like a bunch of friggin brainwashed idiots? Stop shutting your damn brains off and LISTEN. And if you don't agree in the end, at least have the decency to not be a donkey about it.
While I don't disagree, I'd rather see people simply move on than raise a fuss over something that, I think, is insignificant. If they don't think it's insignificant, then fine... but not everything can be significant, and some of those people are complaining for all the wrong reasons. It's a bit of a fine line, sure.
Might I ask what is WBC?
Carry on...
Westboro Baptist Church. They are essentially a large extended family living in Topeka, Kansas that, among other things, pickets the funerals of LGBTQ people, pickets the funerals of military veterans (who may or may not be LGBTQ), blamed 9/11 on gay people (through some interesting mental gymnastics), etc. There's more information about them on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website here.
They're also a very good example of how far one can push freedom of speech laws. The ACLU has written about them in relation to this a number of times, including in this blog post.
I think the amount of scrutiny and pushback that occurs is directly related to how well companies know their target audience. Catalogs like Harriet Carter and Carol Wright carry items on every other page that even I find vulgar and offensive (and I'm very broad-minded) but I dont see much in the way of protests which tells me they're probably doing a good job gauging what would be funny or appealing to their specific customer base.
Ah, I have heard of them. Gives Baptists a really bad name - especially cringeworthy for me because I"m a Baptist and they ain't even in the same city let alone the same ballpark in what Baptists in general believe!
And: if other people are offended by something, don't let that bother you.
It's already out there:
Fortunately, I think most people realize that. I'm not Baptist, but due to geography I know many, many people who are...and while I don't agree with them on a lot of things, they are on the whole much much more accepting, kind, good folks than WBC!