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Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations
Replies
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I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.
ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.
This is even true for marketing directly too obese people. Check out a big and tall site. I can't confirm the BMI of every male model and I am a horrible judge of weight but they look overweight not obese to me. If they are obese they are on the left side of the range not the right side near morbid.
As a person who has bought 2 airline seats for quite some time I can say there is very little that is accommodating to larger people. I can also say that it might cause someone to suddenly want to lose weight I don't think it is the kick in the pants some people might want to believe it can be. People need to be out there enjoying life and approaching weight loss from a positive viewpoint not one born of frustration that leads to crash diets, failure, and ultimately resuming previous bad habits. I accepted that most everything was for "normal-sized" people and that companies and organizations did not really care about me but I am not prone to depression. I often wondered though why no one cared about the money I had to spend though...
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I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.
ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.
This is even true for marketing directly too obese people. Check out a big and tall site. I can't confirm the BMI of every male model and I am a horrible judge of weight but they look overweight not obese to me. If they are obese they are on the left side of the range not the right side near morbid.
As a person who has bought 2 airline seats for quite some time I can say there is very little that is accommodating to larger people. I can also say that it might cause someone to suddenly want to lose weight I don't think it is the kick in the pants some people might want to believe it can be. People need to be out there enjoying life and approaching weight loss from a positive viewpoint not one born of frustration that leads to crash diets, failure, and ultimately resuming previous bad habits. I accepted that most everything was for "normal-sized" people and that companies and organizations did not really care about me but I am not prone to depression. I often wondered though why no one cared about the money I had to spend though...
I regret that have but one insightful to give.
Also that I can't insightful and annoy-hug you on the same post.4 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »jenniferhinchy wrote: »There's a quote that I can't quite remember that puts it better, but it tends to be that people form there ideals and opinions after there intrinsic gut instinct. A lot of people in society have been taught that being towards underweight is the ideal, and being seen as overweight is a personal flaw. This leads to a knee jerk reaction in those people to use overweight as a dirty word, a classic insult of childhood bullies (or adult ones in some cases).
However, as there's been a push for more understanding of what it's like being an overweight person, people have come to realise that there treatment and demonisation of overweight people makes them what we call in the buissness 'a bit of a jerk'. And people don't really want to be seen as mean, so the back pedal looks something like:
'I'm worried about your health!' - 'It glorifys bad life choices' etc etc, you've probably heard a lot of them.
In actual fact, they don't want to face the reality that they themselves have been a part of pushing - that their treatment of overweight people is unfair, cruel and undeserved.
In terms of responding to a lot of the critisism that 'body positivity' I would say this. It's the ability to be able to say 'hey, I shouldn't hate myself for the way my body looks - My worth is not intrinsically tied to my outward appearence'.
And that body positivity disconnects health and physical appearance. Because people can be healthy as they can be, be outside of the average weight due to medical conditions, and should still love themselves. People can look average weight and be unhealthy, and they should love themselves. People can want to change there appearance and still love themselves just as they are. Love yourself!
Because at the end of the day the people that don't want you to love yourself because of the way that you look, don't have your interest at heart, and they certainly don't care about your health. They just don't want to be seen as mean when they make fun of people.
I don't disagree that society has shunned overweight and embraced underweight but I'm not sure why the solution would be to embrace overweight as well, I think it makes more sense to just stop embracing underweight. As far as your worth being tied to your personal appearance....it sort of is to be honest. I mean for things you literally have no control over such as your sex or your race then no, that shouldn't matter, but for things you do have control over such as your weight and your hygeine and grooming then yeah...I don't really understand why society shouldn't make judgements on things like that....it is an outward sign of how much control you have.
Society should be built in such a way that it encourages the type of behaviors that maximally benefits that society and discourages the type of behaviors that harm that society. Appearance is a part of that and weight most definitely is given its connection to health issues (which you seem to dismiss as being a deflection from the "real" reason but honestly its a legitimate reason).
If we could snap our fingers and make all of society female or all of society white or all of society a brunette that wouldn't actually be better (actually it'd be worse in most cases). If we could snap our fingers and make all of society a healthy weight though....wouldn't we do that? Isn't that a goal we should be striving for? If so then isn't it's societies role to push in that direction? I think stopping the glamorization of underweight models is a part of that...but accepting that being overweight is okay somehow is definitely not part of that.
You make some valid points that I agree with. I agree that the societal judgements we experience have impact on our behaviour to change, and certainly that weight is linked to health. Obesity is the 2nd largest contributor to cancer, causes type 2 diabetes and a whole array of health problems, and being underweight can lead to hair loss, anemia and fainting. I also agree that we shouldn't push for/glorify being underweight or overweight, pushing for showing people with healthy weights in media is important.
However, I do disagree in some areas. Some people have health conditions that make it difficult to maintain an average body weight. Sometimes a variable metabolic rate, endocrine issues and the like. Some people haven't been educated in proper diet, some people don't have access to healthy food options due to socioeconomic issues. These things aren't dictated by self-control. Even if these things didn't come into play in how someone became overweight, it takes time, dedication, and a lot of self control to lose weight. Someone who you judge as a fat person with no self control may actually be someone who is on month 9 of an intensive lifestyle change that's incredibly hard for them to maintain. I'd say that person has a lot more self-control than the person with a naturally fast metabolism. You're weight isn't an accurate scale to measure self-control.
Also hygiene and grooming aren't as comparible to your weight. A shower and skin care routine can solve that in 20 minutes, talk to anyone that's been trying to lose weight for years and they can testify it takes a little while.
Societal shaming is an effective technique to make people stop doing things. It also can also cause ingrained psychological damage. Sure it works in some cases, but it isn't ethical.
I can give a few things that work in real life scenarios; better diet education, more public funding in areas for play and fitness, cutting sugar content in meals, sugar taxes, increased healthcare funding. All of these work to curb being overweight without building into someones psyche that they should hate themselves. These are the techniques we should be using, this is what the societal push should be, not to hide away people we don't like the sight of.
Body positivity should go alongside these methods. I think it's the difference between glamorisation and representation. Its the difference between 'You should look like this' vs 'People look like this'. Body positivity pushes for representation of all body types, because all bodies in the world are beautiful. But not all of them are healthy. Doesn't mean you should shame them for it, a) because it's kinda ineffective in comparison to other methods and b) it's kinda mean. I also don't think making underweight people who pushed to make themselves to be underweight because society told them to should be made to feel bad about themselves either. Or people who have fast metabolisms! Body positivity is the push back from the years of self hatred that people have been forced to feel bad about their appearance, people shouldn't feel shame constantly, that is also unhealthy. All of this aside - your worth, pride and self esteem shouldn't be tied to your health or weight alone.
I think everyone would agree that they would snap there finger if it meant everyone was a healthy weight, there is no argument there. But that doesn't exsist, and your finger snap in reality, is a method that doesn't work all that well, we have better ones that don't make people feel awful about themselves.
I hope this didn't come off as combatitive, although I get the feeling it might have done. I'm not the most eloquent of people and dyslexia doesn't help with the spelling of it all! I am interested in what you think, it's a good topic to debate over.14 -
I disagree that weight is a valid indicator of self-control. For one thing I know this not to be true in my own case - when I was in college I was underweight - I was a model! - but certainly not because I exercised more self-control than when I was obese. In fact, underweight me ate terribly, fast food and pizza every day, and occasionally entire boxes of Oreos dipped in frozen cool whip. Underweight me did no purposeful exercise. However, underweight me also lived a life which involved being constantly active, and had the metabolism of a teenager. It wasn’t a loss of self-control which led to me first gaining weight but a loss of mobility due to an acl tear, combined with eating the way I had always eaten. Thirty years later, I’m significantly heavier today, while I maintain a normal BMI using twenty times the self-control I ever used then.
I also know that every year my company which is headquartered in Germany sends people to Atlanta for the summer, and without fail they gain thirty pounds in three months. Then they lose in again when they go home. Do these people become different people when in America? Does the air in Georgia cause sudden terminal failure of self control? Or is it more likely that it’s easier to gain weight while surrounded by restaurants and stores and friends pushing a standard American diet?19 -
I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.
ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.
Like i said... I am not here to shame anyone nor make anyone uncomfortable and I am not discussing beauty.
Ashley Graham is beautiful in my opinion and she's not close to the size of the new featured plus size models.
Cosmopolitan had a plus size cover, Tess Holliday, 5'4 - 280lbs.
Glamour featured Thais Carla, a Brazilian model, 5'5 - 308lbs
My only argument is that the same people that criticized thin, then impossible beauty, now applaud morbidly obese and label anyone who disagrees as prejudiced, misogynists, hypocrites etc.
In my view, the body positive movement is doing a disservice to young girls and their push is working. Magazines are now pushing the "Beautiful at any Size" agenda, while masking and minimizing the underlying issues that come with obesity.
I feel bad for even saying this, because people who are overweight should not be demonized or shamed, but i have a couple of morbidly obese people in my family. My mother struggles with her weight. But the most worrisome to me is one that happens to be a young woman and she subscribes to the Idea of the Body Positive Movement in theory, but in reality, struggles everyday with fad diets, pills and worst of all, her image.
A person who's positive about their body, doesn't struggle like that.12 -
I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.
ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.
Like i said... I am not here to shame anyone nor make anyone uncomfortable and I am not discussing beauty.
Ashley Graham is beautiful in my opinion and she's not close to the size of the new featured plus size models.
Cosmopolitan had a plus size cover, Tess Holliday, 5'4 - 280lbs.
Glamour featured Thais Carla, a Brazilian model, 5'5 - 308lbs
My only argument is that the same people that criticized thin, then impossible beauty, now applaud morbidly obese and label anyone who disagrees as prejudiced, misogynists, hypocrites etc.
In my view, the body positive movement is doing a disservice to young girls and their push is working. Magazines are now pushing the "Beautiful at any Size" agenda, while masking and minimizing the underlying issues that come with obesity.
I feel bad for even saying this, because people who are overweight should not be demonized or shamed, but i have a couple of morbidly obese people in my family. My mother struggles with her weight. But the most worrisome to me is one that happens to be a young woman and she subscribes to the Idea of the Body Positive Movement in theory, but in reality, struggles everyday with fad diets, pills and worst of all, her image.
A person who's positive about their body, doesn't struggle like that.
I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, just with thinking this is a thing that is actually happening. Two magazines each featuring one obese cover model does not constitute a trend that is revolutionizing how society sees obese people. It doesn't balance out the shame and judgement people over a certain size are buried under on a daily basis. It's a couple of tokens so those publications can pat themselves on the back and then go back to promoting stereotypical female beauty paradigms and clothing you won't be able to find in sizes 12 and up.
And there is a huge difference between a small push by the media to acknowledge women can be big and be beautiful, and telling obese people they are healthy and should stay at the size they are.
The young woman you mentioned is a perfect example of this. She isn't thinking she is healthy the way she is, she knows that despite a couple of magazine covers, the world still sees her as the stereotype. If anything, that's an example of how no one needs to worry about the glamorizing of obese people, because they still are made to feel bad about themselves.
The argument many here are saying is that feeling bad about herself is making it harder for that young woman to lose weight. Maybe if the Body Positivity movement was more developed, and didn't have to fight against all the judgement and derision that is everywhere else, she would feel like she was worth the time, effort, and education to take the long but successful road to permanent weight loss.
Maybe what you're talking about is happening in teen magazines and stuff aimed and school age girls? I just personally don't see this wave of "obese is healthy, don't worry about it" happening, anywhere. Just an effort to stop shaming obese people, which is really different. Maybe it's just a case of two people in different places, knowing different people.12 -
I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.
ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.
Like i said... I am not here to shame anyone nor make anyone uncomfortable and I am not discussing beauty.
Ashley Graham is beautiful in my opinion and she's not close to the size of the new featured plus size models.
Cosmopolitan had a plus size cover, Tess Holliday, 5'4 - 280lbs.
Glamour featured Thais Carla, a Brazilian model, 5'5 - 308lbs
My only argument is that the same people that criticized thin, then impossible beauty, now applaud morbidly obese and label anyone who disagrees as prejudiced, misogynists, hypocrites etc.
In my view, the body positive movement is doing a disservice to young girls and their push is working. Magazines are now pushing the "Beautiful at any Size" agenda, while masking and minimizing the underlying issues that come with obesity.
I feel bad for even saying this, because people who are overweight should not be demonized or shamed, but i have a couple of morbidly obese people in my family. My mother struggles with her weight. But the most worrisome to me is one that happens to be a young woman and she subscribes to the Idea of the Body Positive Movement in theory, but in reality, struggles everyday with fad diets, pills and worst of all, her image.
A person who's positive about their body, doesn't struggle like that.
When you feel stuck at a weight it is easy to understand why you would reach for anything that might make you feel better about it. I doubt anyone is truly convinced.
The reality is that you can be beautiful but once you get to a certain point of too much weight you will be inconvenienced or worse and you will start to realize you inconvenience others.
Fat shaming will still happen and the internet has taken it to a whole new level. People cruelly fat bash celebrities and even for just being slightly overweight.
The lesson to learn is that you can't feel judged by the public but even as "not caring what strangers think" as I am it still doesn't feel good when I have been publicly heckled. Small 4ish yo kids are the worst for it.
You can't stop liking yourself but some people never started regardless of weight. I am not sure how you fix that.8 -
I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.
ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.
Like i said... I am not here to shame anyone nor make anyone uncomfortable and I am not discussing beauty.
Ashley Graham is beautiful in my opinion and she's not close to the size of the new featured plus size models.
Cosmopolitan had a plus size cover, Tess Holliday, 5'4 - 280lbs.
Glamour featured Thais Carla, a Brazilian model, 5'5 - 308lbs
My only argument is that the same people that criticized thin, then impossible beauty, now applaud morbidly obese and label anyone who disagrees as prejudiced, misogynists, hypocrites etc.
In my view, the body positive movement is doing a disservice to young girls and their push is working. Magazines are now pushing the "Beautiful at any Size" agenda, while masking and minimizing the underlying issues that come with obesity.
I feel bad for even saying this, because people who are overweight should not be demonized or shamed, but i have a couple of morbidly obese people in my family. My mother struggles with her weight. But the most worrisome to me is one that happens to be a young woman and she subscribes to the Idea of the Body Positive Movement in theory, but in reality, struggles everyday with fad diets, pills and worst of all, her image.
A person who's positive about their body, doesn't struggle like that.
The reason why magazines and fashion have moved away (partially) from ultra thin models is because it was creating an ideal that women, especially young women, felt like they had to go to impossible lengths to achieve, and they would try to achieve it in ways that were detrimental to both their phyisical and mental health and well being.
Putting a severely obese person on a magazine cover does not elicit the same feelings. No normal weight woman looks at that cover and says "I want to emulate that" and then goes to great lengths to become 300 pounds. That doesn't happen. They aren't featured to be the standard of what beauty is.
They are featured as a way to show obese and severely obese people even at a high weight, you can still have beauty and feal beautiful. That is an important thing to be preaching. It doesn't encourage people to stay obese. It helps build self confidence and encourage worth and value. A person should not feel like they are gross and disgusting and have to hide in a burlap sack in their room because they are obese. They should still be able to feel confident about themselves. That confidence not only improves their mental health, but it also helps build a sense of self worth that can prevent bad and abusive relationships. Many severely obese people stay in abusive and destructive relationships because they believe that no one else will ever love them or find them attractive.
We have had tremendous societal pressure for many generations to be thin and skinny, and it hasn't helped stop or slow the obesity epedemic. The body positive movement had come in response to the obesity epidemic, not caused it. So considering that the whole "don't make fat people feel beautiful or valued" way of doing things has been a massive failure, a different approach is long overdue. Even if it's not any more successful at stopping obesity, it can't be any less successful. And if it improves people's mental health and self worth, then it is a win.29 -
If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. There is an urgency for obese people to lose weight. That urgency can be so overwhelming it gets in the way of sensible and sustainable progress.
You can't quit weight. You have to lose it.28 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?10 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.14 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
So now everyone who is obese is a food addict? That is so ridiculous.
If everyone is self-aware of the problem then what harm is there in trying to ease their burden? Obese means that you have a year or more of weight loss ahead of you to lose weight in a healthy fashion. Does a person need to be made to feel fat the entire time they lose? That is what happens now. Just last Friday I got a dirty look and a muttered comment from a thin man who had to sit in front of me in some bleachers that were quite close together and I had a larger lady behind me. While I have lost a very large number of pounds I still took up too much space for him.
I am sure a few people exist but I don't know of ANYONE who is obese or more that is not trying or has not tried to lose weight.
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
But you said:Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?
There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.
You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.
And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.22 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
But you said:Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?
There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.
You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.
And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.
That is what happens when someone is so wrong they start disagreeing with themselves.8 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
But you said:Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?
There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.
You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.
And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.
Replacing our societal infrastructure to accommodate larger people is not society telling them "This is ruining your health", it is telling them that they are okay and that the chairs are the ones that need to change.8 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
But you said:Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?
There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.
You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.
And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.
Replacing our societal infrastructure to accommodate larger people is not society telling them "This is ruining your health", it is telling them that they are okay and that the chairs are the ones that need to change.
The chairs? With all the factors and back and forth in this thread, I honestly don't know what to do with the one concrete piece of evidence you are putting forward is bigger chairs. I'm sure to a person who has been teased and bullied for their weight their whole life, who has possibly suffered physical or sexual abuse leading them to hide in excess weight, who rarely finds nice clothes in their size, who gets tired walking down to the mailbox, who is bombarded with weight loss schemes, and whose doctor is recommending a weight loss clinic and medication, those extra wide chairs at their favorite diner are going to convince them they don't need to lose weight.
I'm going to let this one go. Have a great day.20 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
The self awareness part is just blatantly false and makes me wonder how much you actually know about addiction. Never mind that not everyone who is overweight or obese is a food addict. Then of course there's the fact that getting access to resources to help with addiction can be very difficult, that it's very easy to buy alcohol and cigarettes, and that alcohol is advertised extensively.
And then there's vaping.13 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
But you said:Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?
There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.
You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.
And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.
Replacing our societal infrastructure to accommodate larger people is not society telling them "This is ruining your health", it is telling them that they are okay and that the chairs are the ones that need to change.
The chairs? With all the factors and back and forth in this thread, I honestly don't know what to do with the one concrete piece of evidence you are putting forward is bigger chairs. I'm sure to a person who has been teased and bullied for their weight their whole life, who has possibly suffered physical or sexual abuse leading them to hide in excess weight, who rarely finds nice clothes in their size, who gets tired walking down to the mailbox, who is bombarded with weight loss schemes, and whose doctor is recommending a weight loss clinic and medication, those extra wide chairs at their favorite diner are going to convince them they don't need to lose weight.
I'm going to let this one go. Have a great day.
My original post in this thread on page 1 and nearly all subsequent dialogue I engaged in concerned enlarging public accommodations for the benefit of the obese - you act like I just dropped that in the conversation out of nowhere, lol.5 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.
So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?
Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.
But you said:Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.
If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?
There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.
You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.
And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.
If I could "like" this 1000 times, then I would!7
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