Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations

I think a role of society is to apply negative pressure to behaviors that that society wishes to discourage. Being fat is a physical thing and a physical trait but it is definitely caused by behavior and personal choices. If we, as a society, want to encourage athletic health and wish to discourage being fat then I honestly don't see it as a problem that fat people are "marginalized".

That said I think society also needs to support healthy eating habits and recognize that if the cheapest foods are the highest calorie to nutrition foods that poor people will become fat and not because of poor behaviors but because they are poor and what they can afford is high calorie. Although being poor can potentially be due to poor personal choices I think in any society there will always be a certain percentage of the population that is poor, its just a bell curve I'm not sure you can ever have a society where no one is poor.

If you then try to correct behavior of being fat by increasing the costs of high calorie/nutrition foods (like a sugar tax or something) you have to match that by decreasing the costs of nutritious foods via subsidies, otherwise you are just screwing over poor people.

So for me in terms of health and what society should encourage and discourage its simple, in terms of economics and the health of the lowest economic classes then it becomes a bit more complicated in a society where high cal/ low nutrient foods are the cheapest.

jenniferhinchy wrote: »

There's a quote that I can't quite remember that puts it better, but it tends to be that people form there ideals and opinions after there intrinsic gut instinct. A lot of people in society have been taught that being towards underweight is the ideal, and being seen as overweight is a personal flaw. This leads to a knee jerk reaction in those people to use overweight as a dirty word, a classic insult of childhood bullies (or adult ones in some cases).

However, as there's been a push for more understanding of what it's like being an overweight person, people have come to realise that there treatment and demonisation of overweight people makes them what we call in the buissness 'a bit of a jerk'. And people don't really want to be seen as mean, so the back pedal looks something like:

'I'm worried about your health!' - 'It glorifys bad life choices' etc etc, you've probably heard a lot of them.

In actual fact, they don't want to face the reality that they themselves have been a part of pushing - that their treatment of overweight people is unfair, cruel and undeserved.

In terms of responding to a lot of the critisism that 'body positivity' I would say this. It's the ability to be able to say 'hey, I shouldn't hate myself for the way my body looks - My worth is not intrinsically tied to my outward appearence'.

And that body positivity disconnects health and physical appearance. Because people can be healthy as they can be, be outside of the average weight due to medical conditions, and should still love themselves. People can look average weight and be unhealthy, and they should love themselves. People can want to change there appearance and still love themselves just as they are. Love yourself!

Because at the end of the day the people that don't want you to love yourself because of the way that you look, don't have your interest at heart, and they certainly don't care about your health. They just don't want to be seen as mean when they make fun of people.

I don't disagree that society has shunned overweight and embraced underweight but I'm not sure why the solution would be to embrace overweight as well, I think it makes more sense to just stop embracing underweight. As far as your worth being tied to your personal appearance....it sort of is to be honest. I mean for things you literally have no control over such as your sex or your race then no, that shouldn't matter, but for things you do have control over such as your weight and your hygeine and grooming then yeah...I don't really understand why society shouldn't make judgements on things like that....it is an outward sign of how much control you have.

Society should be built in such a way that it encourages the type of behaviors that maximally benefits that society and discourages the type of behaviors that harm that society. Appearance is a part of that and weight most definitely is given its connection to health issues (which you seem to dismiss as being a deflection from the "real" reason but honestly its a legitimate reason).

If we could snap our fingers and make all of society female or all of society white or all of society a brunette that wouldn't actually be better (actually it'd be worse in most cases). If we could snap our fingers and make all of society a healthy weight though....wouldn't we do that? Isn't that a goal we should be striving for? If so then isn't it's societies role to push in that direction? I think stopping the glamorization of underweight models is a part of that...but accepting that being overweight is okay somehow is definitely not part of that.

MikePTY wrote: »

Aaron_K123 wrote: »

I think a role of society is to apply negative pressure to behaviors that that society wishes to discourage. Being fat is a physical thing and a physical trait but it is definitely caused by behavior and personal choices. If we, as a society, want to encourage athletic health and wish to discourage being fat then I honestly don't see it as a problem that fat people are "marginalized".

That said I think society also needs to support healthy eating habits and recognize that if the cheapest foods are the highest calorie to nutrition foods that poor people will become fat and not because of poor behaviors but because they are poor and what they can afford is high calorie. Although being poor can potentially be due to poor personal choices I think in any society there will always be a certain percentage of the population that is poor, its just a bell curve I'm not sure you can ever have a society where no one is poor.

If you then try to correct behavior of being fat by increasing the costs of high calorie/nutrition foods (like a sugar tax or something) you have to match that by decreasing the costs of nutritious foods via subsidies, otherwise you are just screwing over poor people.

So for me in terms of health and what society should encourage and discourage its simple, in terms of economics and the health of the lowest economic classes then it becomes a bit more complicated in a society where high cal/ low nutrient foods are the cheapest.

As you admit, obesity is a characteristic and not a behavior. Sure, certain behaviors can cause and sustain obesity, but you can't just decide to stop being obese one day and then be not obese the next. It doesn't work like that. So you are marginalizing people, and not behaviors, when you marginalize obese people.

It also shows an incredible lack of empathy, because while yes, the vast majority of obesity can be corrected by behavioral modifications, it is wrong to assume that it is anywhere close to easy for most people. Nobody knows anyone's individual circumstances and challenges. Successful weight loss and maintenance of that weight loss is difficult under the best of circumstances. For people who have other compounding health issues, disability, depression, poverty, extreme stress and difficulty in their lives, etc, it is significantly more difficult.

Marginalizing the obese doesn't help them become less obese. It is a big reason why depression and suicide is higher among people with obesity though. It does not create positive outcomes for their health.

Thank you for saying this.

I am not here to offend or discuss beauty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't make anyone think I am beautiful if they find me ugly just as much as you can't make me think someone is beautiful if I find them ugly.
That really is not the point, in my opinion.

I remember growing up in the 90s and that was the era of the toothpick models. Nearly anorexic girls.
Critics said that magazines and fashion boutiques should not glorify unhealthy behaviors.

Then Claudia Schiffer and Naomi Campbell came along and suddenly, healthy was beautiful again. The Victoria Secret boom happened and Giselle Bundchen became the goddess of the fashion world,
Critics said that those Girls were perpetuating the idea of impossible standards.

Now, the new body positive movement is out and those same magazines are being applauded for displaying women that are not a little curvy, but severely overweight and anyone who doesn't call it beautiful, suddenly became a misogynist.

And my question is... Where are the people who 10, 20, 30 years ago, raised hell about magazines glorifying unhealthy bodies? Isn't this the same thing.
Will anyone here make the claim that a person who's 5.7 and 350lbs is healthy?

and perhaps the most pertinent question... Why is it that the "Body positive" advocates insist in pushing other people to agree with their new standard of beauty? I only ask this question because if you feel positive about your body, you don't need anyone else's approval.

and as Kimny said a few posts back... I am middle aged and still haven't seen a body positive movement member who's actually positive about their body.

That;s my 2 cents... I hope i didn't offend anyone.

kimny72 wrote: »

I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.

ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.

Out of curiousity I googled her stats, and if the internet is to be believed, she is 5'9", 187.5 pounds, which puts her at a BMI of 27.7. Which is overweight, but not even close to obese. That shows how far off we are from a society that glorifies obesity when she is what is considered "plus size".

kimny72 wrote: »

I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.

ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.

This is even true for marketing directly too obese people. Check out a big and tall site. I can't confirm the BMI of every male model and I am a horrible judge of weight but they look overweight not obese to me. If they are obese they are on the left side of the range not the right side near morbid.

As a person who has bought 2 airline seats for quite some time I can say there is very little that is accommodating to larger people. I can also say that it might cause someone to suddenly want to lose weight I don't think it is the kick in the pants some people might want to believe it can be. People need to be out there enjoying life and approaching weight loss from a positive viewpoint not one born of frustration that leads to crash diets, failure, and ultimately resuming previous bad habits. I accepted that most everything was for "normal-sized" people and that companies and organizations did not really care about me but I am not prone to depression. I often wondered though why no one cared about the money I had to spend though...

Aaron_K123 wrote: »

jenniferhinchy wrote: »

There's a quote that I can't quite remember that puts it better, but it tends to be that people form there ideals and opinions after there intrinsic gut instinct. A lot of people in society have been taught that being towards underweight is the ideal, and being seen as overweight is a personal flaw. This leads to a knee jerk reaction in those people to use overweight as a dirty word, a classic insult of childhood bullies (or adult ones in some cases).

However, as there's been a push for more understanding of what it's like being an overweight person, people have come to realise that there treatment and demonisation of overweight people makes them what we call in the buissness 'a bit of a jerk'. And people don't really want to be seen as mean, so the back pedal looks something like:

'I'm worried about your health!' - 'It glorifys bad life choices' etc etc, you've probably heard a lot of them.

In actual fact, they don't want to face the reality that they themselves have been a part of pushing - that their treatment of overweight people is unfair, cruel and undeserved.

In terms of responding to a lot of the critisism that 'body positivity' I would say this. It's the ability to be able to say 'hey, I shouldn't hate myself for the way my body looks - My worth is not intrinsically tied to my outward appearence'.

And that body positivity disconnects health and physical appearance. Because people can be healthy as they can be, be outside of the average weight due to medical conditions, and should still love themselves. People can look average weight and be unhealthy, and they should love themselves. People can want to change there appearance and still love themselves just as they are. Love yourself!

Because at the end of the day the people that don't want you to love yourself because of the way that you look, don't have your interest at heart, and they certainly don't care about your health. They just don't want to be seen as mean when they make fun of people.

I don't disagree that society has shunned overweight and embraced underweight but I'm not sure why the solution would be to embrace overweight as well, I think it makes more sense to just stop embracing underweight. As far as your worth being tied to your personal appearance....it sort of is to be honest. I mean for things you literally have no control over such as your sex or your race then no, that shouldn't matter, but for things you do have control over such as your weight and your hygeine and grooming then yeah...I don't really understand why society shouldn't make judgements on things like that....it is an outward sign of how much control you have.

Society should be built in such a way that it encourages the type of behaviors that maximally benefits that society and discourages the type of behaviors that harm that society. Appearance is a part of that and weight most definitely is given its connection to health issues (which you seem to dismiss as being a deflection from the "real" reason but honestly its a legitimate reason).

If we could snap our fingers and make all of society female or all of society white or all of society a brunette that wouldn't actually be better (actually it'd be worse in most cases). If we could snap our fingers and make all of society a healthy weight though....wouldn't we do that? Isn't that a goal we should be striving for? If so then isn't it's societies role to push in that direction? I think stopping the glamorization of underweight models is a part of that...but accepting that being overweight is okay somehow is definitely not part of that.

You make some valid points that I agree with. I agree that the societal judgements we experience have impact on our behaviour to change, and certainly that weight is linked to health. Obesity is the 2nd largest contributor to cancer, causes type 2 diabetes and a whole array of health problems, and being underweight can lead to hair loss, anemia and fainting. I also agree that we shouldn't push for/glorify being underweight or overweight, pushing for showing people with healthy weights in media is important.

However, I do disagree in some areas. Some people have health conditions that make it difficult to maintain an average body weight. Sometimes a variable metabolic rate, endocrine issues and the like. Some people haven't been educated in proper diet, some people don't have access to healthy food options due to socioeconomic issues. These things aren't dictated by self-control. Even if these things didn't come into play in how someone became overweight, it takes time, dedication, and a lot of self control to lose weight. Someone who you judge as a fat person with no self control may actually be someone who is on month 9 of an intensive lifestyle change that's incredibly hard for them to maintain. I'd say that person has a lot more self-control than the person with a naturally fast metabolism. You're weight isn't an accurate scale to measure self-control.

Also hygiene and grooming aren't as comparible to your weight. A shower and skin care routine can solve that in 20 minutes, talk to anyone that's been trying to lose weight for years and they can testify it takes a little while.

Societal shaming is an effective technique to make people stop doing things. It also can also cause ingrained psychological damage. Sure it works in some cases, but it isn't ethical.
I can give a few things that work in real life scenarios; better diet education, more public funding in areas for play and fitness, cutting sugar content in meals, sugar taxes, increased healthcare funding. All of these work to curb being overweight without building into someones psyche that they should hate themselves. These are the techniques we should be using, this is what the societal push should be, not to hide away people we don't like the sight of.

Body positivity should go alongside these methods. I think it's the difference between glamorisation and representation. Its the difference between 'You should look like this' vs 'People look like this'. Body positivity pushes for representation of all body types, because all bodies in the world are beautiful. But not all of them are healthy. Doesn't mean you should shame them for it, a) because it's kinda ineffective in comparison to other methods and b) it's kinda mean. I also don't think making underweight people who pushed to make themselves to be underweight because society told them to should be made to feel bad about themselves either. Or people who have fast metabolisms! Body positivity is the push back from the years of self hatred that people have been forced to feel bad about their appearance, people shouldn't feel shame constantly, that is also unhealthy. All of this aside - your worth, pride and self esteem shouldn't be tied to your health or weight alone.

I think everyone would agree that they would snap there finger if it meant everyone was a healthy weight, there is no argument there. But that doesn't exsist, and your finger snap in reality, is a method that doesn't work all that well, we have better ones that don't make people feel awful about themselves.

I hope this didn't come off as combatitive, although I get the feeling it might have done. I'm not the most eloquent of people and dyslexia doesn't help with the spelling of it all! I am interested in what you think, it's a good topic to debate over.

kimny72 wrote: »

I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.

ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.

Like i said... I am not here to shame anyone nor make anyone uncomfortable and I am not discussing beauty.
Ashley Graham is beautiful in my opinion and she's not close to the size of the new featured plus size models.

Cosmopolitan had a plus size cover, Tess Holliday, 5'4 - 280lbs.
Glamour featured Thais Carla, a Brazilian model, 5'5 - 308lbs

My only argument is that the same people that criticized thin, then impossible beauty, now applaud morbidly obese and label anyone who disagrees as prejudiced, misogynists, hypocrites etc.

In my view, the body positive movement is doing a disservice to young girls and their push is working. Magazines are now pushing the "Beautiful at any Size" agenda, while masking and minimizing the underlying issues that come with obesity.

I feel bad for even saying this, because people who are overweight should not be demonized or shamed, but i have a couple of morbidly obese people in my family. My mother struggles with her weight. But the most worrisome to me is one that happens to be a young woman and she subscribes to the Idea of the Body Positive Movement in theory, but in reality, struggles everyday with fad diets, pills and worst of all, her image.

A person who's positive about their body, doesn't struggle like that.

tlpina82 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.

ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.

Like i said... I am not here to shame anyone nor make anyone uncomfortable and I am not discussing beauty.
Ashley Graham is beautiful in my opinion and she's not close to the size of the new featured plus size models.

Cosmopolitan had a plus size cover, Tess Holliday, 5'4 - 280lbs.
Glamour featured Thais Carla, a Brazilian model, 5'5 - 308lbs

My only argument is that the same people that criticized thin, then impossible beauty, now applaud morbidly obese and label anyone who disagrees as prejudiced, misogynists, hypocrites etc.

In my view, the body positive movement is doing a disservice to young girls and their push is working. Magazines are now pushing the "Beautiful at any Size" agenda, while masking and minimizing the underlying issues that come with obesity.

I feel bad for even saying this, because people who are overweight should not be demonized or shamed, but i have a couple of morbidly obese people in my family. My mother struggles with her weight. But the most worrisome to me is one that happens to be a young woman and she subscribes to the Idea of the Body Positive Movement in theory, but in reality, struggles everyday with fad diets, pills and worst of all, her image.

A person who's positive about their body, doesn't struggle like that.

When you feel stuck at a weight it is easy to understand why you would reach for anything that might make you feel better about it. I doubt anyone is truly convinced.

The reality is that you can be beautiful but once you get to a certain point of too much weight you will be inconvenienced or worse and you will start to realize you inconvenience others.

Fat shaming will still happen and the internet has taken it to a whole new level. People cruelly fat bash celebrities and even for just being slightly overweight.

The lesson to learn is that you can't feel judged by the public but even as "not caring what strangers think" as I am it still doesn't feel good when I have been publicly heckled. Small 4ish yo kids are the worst for it.

You can't stop liking yourself but some people never started regardless of weight. I am not sure how you fix that.

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.

So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.

So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?

Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.

So now everyone who is obese is a food addict? That is so ridiculous.

If everyone is self-aware of the problem then what harm is there in trying to ease their burden? Obese means that you have a year or more of weight loss ahead of you to lose weight in a healthy fashion. Does a person need to be made to feel fat the entire time they lose? That is what happens now. Just last Friday I got a dirty look and a muttered comment from a thin man who had to sit in front of me in some bleachers that were quite close together and I had a larger lady behind me. While I have lost a very large number of pounds I still took up too much space for him.

I am sure a few people exist but I don't know of ANYONE who is obese or more that is not trying or has not tried to lose weight.

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.

So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?

Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.

But you said:

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?

There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.

You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.

And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.

That is what happens when someone is so wrong they start disagreeing with themselves.

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.

So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?

Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.

But you said:

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?

There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.

You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.

And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.

Replacing our societal infrastructure to accommodate larger people is not society telling them "This is ruining your health", it is telling them that they are okay and that the chairs are the ones that need to change.

The chairs? With all the factors and back and forth in this thread, I honestly don't know what to do with the one concrete piece of evidence you are putting forward is bigger chairs. I'm sure to a person who has been teased and bullied for their weight their whole life, who has possibly suffered physical or sexual abuse leading them to hide in excess weight, who rarely finds nice clothes in their size, who gets tired walking down to the mailbox, who is bombarded with weight loss schemes, and whose doctor is recommending a weight loss clinic and medication, those extra wide chairs at their favorite diner are going to convince them they don't need to lose weight.

I'm going to let this one go. Have a great day.

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

With overeating, we have let that slide because the most obvious symptom of this is a change in personal appearance - so sparing feelings has become a bigger priority than health. White knight this all you want, it isn't hyperbolic to say that people are suffering impaired health and death from overeating because we enable it in a manner that is totally inconsistent with our treatment of those who abuse other substances.

So, you're saying that too many obese people now believe they are healthy the way they are so there is no motivation to lose weight? Really?

Nope, I didn't say that at all. Alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers, etc., all have a similar level of self-awareness. We just don't enable them in the same way as we do food addicts. Really.

But you said:

Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »

If overeating only resulted in medical issues and with no corresponding effect on physical appearance, society would be very straight forward and blunt about addressing overeating - it would look similar to anti drug, smoking, and alcoholism campaigns. This is ruining your health, get help immediately before you do irreparable harm to yourself. That urgency has definitely saved lives.

If obese people are aware that obesity is not healthy, how can you conclude that society isn't telling them "This is ruining your health"?

There are obese people who actually avoid going to the doctor, because they are tired of hearing about how their weight is killing them but they don't know how to deal with the underlying issues that have caused them to sabotage themselves. There are weight loss clinics all over the country promising to help them lose weight fast. There are diets and workout programs all over the internet promising fast weight loss. People are being prescribed phentermine or diabetes medications to help them lose weight faster, they're being put on Medifast and Optavia plans, bariatric surgery centers are popping up all over the place. There are therapists who specialize in eating disorders and morbid obesity related to histories of abuse or self harm.

You keep repeating your premise and saying "this is true, just believe me". But what you're saying doesn't jive at all with what I see around me. I see a giant industry built around the need to help people lose weight, I see the media pandering momentarily to overweight people and then ignoring them again, and I don't know or see any obese people who don't realize they are hurting themselves by staying that way, in fact I believe many stay that way because at least subconsciously they believe they don't deserve better.

And FYI, obesity /= food addict in at least some if not most cases. There are often deep psychological issues that often have nothing to do with food. You can't just detox from food and then stop eating it.

Replacing our societal infrastructure to accommodate larger people is not society telling them "This is ruining your health", it is telling them that they are okay and that the chairs are the ones that need to change.

The chairs? With all the factors and back and forth in this thread, I honestly don't know what to do with the one concrete piece of evidence you are putting forward is bigger chairs. I'm sure to a person who has been teased and bullied for their weight their whole life, who has possibly suffered physical or sexual abuse leading them to hide in excess weight, who rarely finds nice clothes in their size, who gets tired walking down to the mailbox, who is bombarded with weight loss schemes, and whose doctor is recommending a weight loss clinic and medication, those extra wide chairs at their favorite diner are going to convince them they don't need to lose weight.

I'm going to let this one go. Have a great day.

My original post in this thread on page 1 and nearly all subsequent dialogue I engaged in concerned enlarging public accommodations for the benefit of the obese - you act like I just dropped that in the conversation out of nowhere, lol.