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Body Positive Movement - For or against?
Replies
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MikeRobi81 wrote: »Fat acceptance shouldn't be a thing. Everyone should try to be as healthy as they can be. People like Tess Holliday has a huge negative impact on the health of her followers. This movement wants Doctors (medical professionals) to stop using the medical term "obesity" and that is just wrong. I'm against fat shaming, no one should be bullied.
That's why you have shoes instead of a car, right?5 -
Just got on to my Health Savings Account website login page. The models were a morbidly obese couple. I'm all for being body positive but questioning that web design given the nature of the site.4
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NorthCascades wrote: »MikeRobi81 wrote: »Fat acceptance shouldn't be a thing. Everyone should try to be as healthy as they can be. People like Tess Holliday has a huge negative impact on the health of her followers. This movement wants Doctors (medical professionals) to stop using the medical term "obesity" and that is just wrong. I'm against fat shaming, no one should be bullied.
That's why you have shoes instead of a car, right?
Too wooers say "trying to be as healthy as possible is only for other people to do!" 🤣5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just got on to my Health Savings Account website login page. The models were a morbidly obese couple. I'm all for being body positive but questioning that web design given the nature of the site.
So you think Health Savings Accounts should only be for people who are already fit? Isn't that like limiting college savings accounts to people who already have degrees, or retirement savings accounts to people who have trust funds?8 -
Here is my two cents.
I believe a person needs to learn to love and accept his/her body no matter the size and shape. If you are not in a positive place you cannot grow or have meaningful change. Having the media bombard you with only one acceptable body option makes accepting yourself very difficult; if not impossible.
What we need to see is people who are all different shapes and sizes and abilities. What I think is lacking is a look at overall health and what people are doing to reach health goals. Understanding the impacts of how you are eating and your physical activity is important. It is also important to have a health care provider or trainer who can provide factual information on your choices and guide you down a path to overall health. I believe that whole foods and healthy options need to be subsidized and accessible to everyone. And having dessert or a burger is a good thing! The gym, team activities or sidewalk should be a place where everyone is supported.
It took me a very long time to accept where I am and that I need to implement change to keep my body and mind healthy. For me this means losing weight, gaining muscle and making informed food choices. I want to reduce my risk of heart disease, diabetes, cancer and arthritis. I want to see my niece and nephew grow-up.
Support health and happiness. Support everyone. You have no idea where they are or even how far some of them have come. One conversation or action can help someone on their journey or completely destroy it.
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I don't like its connection to "health at every size." I believe in self-worth at every size, love and acceptance at every size and try to be healthy at every size but there are clear health and fitness benefits to being at a healthy weight.
I do also agree that there is a strong prejudice against being overweight in society and in the medical community and think all people should be treated with respect by their doctors, etc. I've heard of doctors not taking obese patients' complaints seriously and treat everything with a blanket statement- "it's because of your weight." At the same time a doctor should bring up losing weight as a health priority. I see both sides but think some of the movement takes it too far.9 -
happyrunnersummer wrote: »I don't like its connection to "health at every size."
There's no inherent connection to HAES. Plenty of people I'd consider body positivity advocates aren't part of HAES.5 -
There’s a difference between a healthy body and a perfect body. Especially because a perfect body depends on the person, the person’s sports and activities, the person’s health issues, etc. There can’t be one perfect body. That being said, the movement is on the right track but not very much doing the right thing in my opinion. I mean, it’s good to love your body, but more people are just using it as an excuse to be lazy, eat whatever they want, and not get off the couch. It’s pretty much promoting obesity. On the other hand, nobody should be ashamed about things out of their control, and self respect is important. Being perfect shouldn’t be obsessed over, which is what the movement is doing right. Even still, I think the body positive movement should be more centered on loving yourself and in response, taking care of yourself instead of the opposite.6
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There’s a difference between a healthy body and a perfect body. Especially because a perfect body depends on the person, the person’s sports and activities, the person’s health issues, etc. There can’t be one perfect body. That being said, the movement is on the right track but not very much doing the right thing in my opinion. I mean, it’s good to love your body, but more people are just using it as an excuse to be lazy, eat whatever they want, and not get off the couch. It’s pretty much promoting obesity. On the other hand, nobody should be ashamed about things out of their control, and self respect is important. Being perfect shouldn’t be obsessed over, which is what the movement is doing right. Even still, I think the body positive movement should be more centered on loving yourself and in response, taking care of yourself instead of the opposite.
How do you know if it's an excuse or a personal choice? And why the stereotyping? It doesn't take a huge surplus to become overweight, so the difference between someone who is overweight and someone who isn't could literally be no more than an extra apple or a few less active minutes a day.10 -
Which means it doesn't take a huge deficit to lose weight, as the math and chemistry works in both directions. A few hundred fewer calories in, a few hundred more calories used by moving more and pretty soon the excess weight comes off.
I think most critics here are not critical of those who are being honest about where they are. What's wrong with saying, "I'm fat, but I don't have to stay this way?" That's a positive and realistic statement. I may have posted it here or in another thread where there was the UK actress who claimed she'd tried every diet and must have a slow metabolism. When her claims were checked scientifically she was grossly underestimating her calorie consumption. (They used doubly labeled water as part of the test.)
Heck, even if you eat fast food, you can make some decent substitutions and cut the calories in a meal.
Compare two meals at McDonalds, no drink A Quarter Pounder with Cheese (I think some places in the world call this a Royal or similar name) and a medium fries is 850 calories, 87.7g of carbs, 12.4g of fat and 33 g of protein.
Replace the burger with an artisan grilled chicken sandwich and replace the fries with 2 packs of apple slices and your meal becomes 410 calories, 52g of carbs, 6g of fat and 36g of protein.
Half the calories and just as filling.
But we all know the person eating the first meal and then telling us he or she cannot possibly lose weight.
I don't think anyone is against body positive as long as it's not delusional. It seems to me, what people are against is the delusional position some take in the name of being body positive.amusedmonkey wrote: »
How do you know if it's an excuse or a personal choice? And why the stereotyping? It doesn't take a huge surplus to become overweight, so the difference between someone who is overweight and someone who isn't could literally be no more than an extra apple or a few less active minutes a day.
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tbright1965 wrote: »Which means it doesn't take a huge deficit to lose weight, as the math and chemistry works in both directions. A few hundred fewer calories in, a few hundred more calories used by moving more and pretty soon the excess weight comes off.
What's wrong with saying, "I'm fat, but I don't have to stay this way?"
Absolutely nothing is wrong with that and weight loss is possible in most cases. There is nothing wrong with "I'm fat and staying fat is a good choice for me", either. Ignoring that body positivity, as a concept, is weight blind, there is absolutely no reason to assume things about people just because they look a certain way and like it, especially if it's meant as a derogatory statement. Although there is the odd case that fits that description, weight issues are usually more complex than a simple "I want to be a lazy slob who lives on the couch and eats all day".
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1. Body positivity meaning "be comfortable in your own skin and face the world with confidence and a smile on your face regardless of who you are" That's the body positivity that I'm on board with.
2. Body positivity being hijacked by fat acceptance activists, who freely throw out insults like "skinny b*tch" and "twelve year old boy" and deny amputees & burns/acid attack survivors body positivity due to their "thin privilege", who feel that they deserve hawt sexathons with a guy the same height and build as Joe Manganiello while deriding men with dad bods as "gross" and calling men under 6ft "manlets" - all flavours of nope.17 -
Me and my friend were messing around in a jacuzzi in our bikinis on vacation and had it up on our stories on instagram. We got so much hate off people saying stuff like "she loves herself" "get some clothes on" ect. Yet the last few months all over social media I've been seeing bigger women posting pictures posing in underwear/bikinis with long captions about body positivity and self love. These women were being praised while I was being teared down just because we are some peoples standard of beauty dosn't mean we don't have insecurites. I have things I don't like about myself but there I was trying to love myself and my body but that wasn't allowed. The people who were giving us hate would be the same type of people who'd post about body positivity.11
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I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices.
Watching what you eat and working out is not a privilege, making positive life choices is not a privilege. I'm all for accepting everyone as they are and equal rights for all. I see overeating the same as alcoholism, it's an addiction that stems from something deeper. I'm a reformed alcoholic and I don't hate people who can drink in moderation, imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...3 -
Watching what you eat and working out is not a privilege,
they are a privilege. sometimes, you have little choice in what you eat. availability, finances, budget, non1st world problems. sometimes, you work 2-3 jobs, have kids or family obligations, long commutes.
when you are struggling to get by or survive, all of it becomes much more fuzzy.
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Watching what you eat and working out is not a privilege,
they are a privilege. sometimes, you have little choice in what you eat. availability, finances, budget, non1st world problems. sometimes, you work 2-3 jobs, have kids or family obligations, long commutes.
when you are struggling to get by or survive, all of it becomes much more fuzzy.
Choosing to not overeat and become obese is not a privilege. being able to afford a gym could be seen as a privilege but anyone with an internet connection can get on Youtube and learn how to get and stay in shape without any equipment.
Becoming overweight is is the result of having too much food - now that's privilege.
Self medicating with fatty and sugary foods due to an unprivileged life situation is a different animal.2 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.4 -
each too there own. do as you please, but dont come crying when it all goes wrong
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Watching what you eat and working out is not a privilege,
they are a privilege. sometimes, you have little choice in what you eat. availability, finances, budget, non1st world problems. sometimes, you work 2-3 jobs, have kids or family obligations, long commutes.
when you are struggling to get by or survive, all of it becomes much more fuzzy.
Choosing to not overeat and become obese is not a privilege. being able to afford a gym could be seen as a privilege but anyone with an internet connection can get on Youtube and learn how to get and stay in shape without any equipment.
Becoming overweight is is the result of having too much food - now that's privilege.
Self medicating with fatty and sugary foods due to an unprivileged life situation is a different animal.
Having the time to workout is a privilege, yes. Having time to buy and prepare non calorie dense is also a privilege. If we want to get right down to it, being able to be secure in the fact that you won't have to make the choice between food, keeping the water on, and keeping the electricity on is also a privilege.8 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
Think that is meant for @Dolly989Me and my friend were messing around in a jacuzzi in our bikinis on vacation and had it up on our stories on instagram. We got so much hate off people saying stuff like "she loves herself" "get some clothes on" ect. Yet the last few months all over social media I've been seeing bigger women posting pictures posing in underwear/bikinis with long captions about body positivity and self love. These women were being praised while I was being teared down just because we are some peoples standard of beauty dosn't mean we don't have insecurites. I have things I don't like about myself but there I was trying to love myself and my body but that wasn't allowed. The people who were giving us hate would be the same type of people who'd post about body positivity.
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I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
This sums up the absurd notion of privilege. An embodiment of envy.2 -
Here's an interesting historical take on how being overweight was a display of status and 'privilege':
https://www.sermo.com/history-obesity-renaissance-1910/
"The first post in this 3 part series on the history of obesity discussed the view of obesity from the Stone Age to the Renaissance, when fatness or obesity was viewed as beautiful, healthy, and a sign of prosperity. This post discusses a global view of obesity from the renaissance to 1910.
Obesity remained a symbol of beauty worldwide. There were famines during these centuries. The Irish famine is one of the most famous. (A) People died without sufficient food during this and other famines. Prosperity meant having enough money to buy or own food, and to eat well. The wealthy ate in excess, assuring themselves status and “good health.” Throughout the world, those who were leaders or rulers tended to have more fat on their bodies and withstood the famines more easily."
To me it means accepting people as they are, not discriminating or 'fat shaming' people. What people must understand and accept however is that they are 100% responsible for their life choices and how they treat their bodies. Choosing to be overweight is choosing to be unhealthy and in a lot of cases unhappy. That's not the fault of people who have chosen differently and it's not a 'privilege' either.
That said I know it's not as simple as healthy food is expensive and there's the whole issue of comfort eating as a drug.
In the UK we have state run healthcare so if there was a 'body positive' movement here it would be an issue.2 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
Think that is meant for @Dolly989Me and my friend were messing around in a jacuzzi in our bikinis on vacation and had it up on our stories on instagram. We got so much hate off people saying stuff like "she loves herself" "get some clothes on" ect. Yet the last few months all over social media I've been seeing bigger women posting pictures posing in underwear/bikinis with long captions about body positivity and self love. These women were being praised while I was being teared down just because we are some peoples standard of beauty dosn't mean we don't have insecurites. I have things I don't like about myself but there I was trying to love myself and my body but that wasn't allowed. The people who were giving us hate would be the same type of people who'd post about body positivity.
It was your post.
I am talking about what is actually meant by body positivity to those of us on the thread. It is of course possible that random people on social media could behave in a hypocritical fashion, but I'd call them on it there, if this actually happened, and not use it -- as you did -- as a reason to claim that body positivity is about people feeling unhappy about themselves and resenting others.1 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
This sums up the absurd notion of privilege. An embodiment of envy.
I said nothing about privilege.3 -
Here's an interesting historical take on how being overweight was a display of status and 'privilege':
https://www.sermo.com/history-obesity-renaissance-1910/
"The first post in this 3 part series on the history of obesity discussed the view of obesity from the Stone Age to the Renaissance, when fatness or obesity was viewed as beautiful, healthy, and a sign of prosperity. This post discusses a global view of obesity from the renaissance to 1910.
Obesity remained a symbol of beauty worldwide. There were famines during these centuries. The Irish famine is one of the most famous. (A) People died without sufficient food during this and other famines. Prosperity meant having enough money to buy or own food, and to eat well. The wealthy ate in excess, assuring themselves status and “good health.” Throughout the world, those who were leaders or rulers tended to have more fat on their bodies and withstood the famines more easily."
To me it means accepting people as they are, not discriminating or 'fat shaming' people. What people must understand and accept however is that they are 100% responsible for their life choices and how they treat their bodies. Choosing to be overweight is choosing to be unhealthy and in a lot of cases unhappy. That's not the fault of people who have chosen differently and it's not a 'privilege' either.
That said I know it's not as simple as healthy food is expensive and there's the whole issue of comfort eating as a drug.
In the UK we have state run healthcare so if there was a 'body positive' movement here it would be an issue.
Personally, I'd like to know what the person who posted the comment meant.
However, you continue to post as if "body positivity" meant choosing to be obese, which it does not.
The time I most needed body positivity was when I was in high school through my mid 20s, all times at which I was normal weight, btw. And as I mentioned earlier, when I was fat, moving to a place of more self-acceptance and body positivity, and focusing on what I had control over (even though I did not yet fully accept I had control over my body) and what my body could do helped me arrive at a place where I could lose weight and become very fit (and I decided I'd be as fit as possible no matter my weight -- I of course did lose, but focusing on something other than the number on the scale was important for me).
There are a lot of very fit women who focus on body positivity. Here's one example: https://www.self.com/story/this-womans-bikini-photo-is-going-viral-for-a-reason-you-might-not-expect
https://www.girlsgonestrong.com/blog/ggs-spotlight/molly-galbraiths-spotlight-a-womans-worth/5 -
Here's an interesting historical take on how being overweight was a display of status and 'privilege':
https://www.sermo.com/history-obesity-renaissance-1910/
"The first post in this 3 part series on the history of obesity discussed the view of obesity from the Stone Age to the Renaissance, when fatness or obesity was viewed as beautiful, healthy, and a sign of prosperity. This post discusses a global view of obesity from the renaissance to 1910.
Obesity remained a symbol of beauty worldwide. There were famines during these centuries. The Irish famine is one of the most famous. (A) People died without sufficient food during this and other famines. Prosperity meant having enough money to buy or own food, and to eat well. The wealthy ate in excess, assuring themselves status and “good health.” Throughout the world, those who were leaders or rulers tended to have more fat on their bodies and withstood the famines more easily."
To me it means accepting people as they are, not discriminating or 'fat shaming' people. What people must understand and accept however is that they are 100% responsible for their life choices and how they treat their bodies. Choosing to be overweight is choosing to be unhealthy and in a lot of cases unhappy. That's not the fault of people who have chosen differently and it's not a 'privilege' either.
That said I know it's not as simple as healthy food is expensive and there's the whole issue of comfort eating as a drug.
In the UK we have state run healthcare so if there was a 'body positive' movement here it would be an issue.
If you think there isn't a body positivity "movement" in the UK then I can assure you that you're wrong. Here are some links:
https://www.berealcampaign.co.uk/
https://twitter.com/bbcbodypositive?lang=en
But then again, you're also falling into the trap of thinking that body positivity is only about weight. It isn't.4 -
Against.
I've been everything from borderline underweight to overweight to fit to obese to fit/strong but still slightly overweight (currently)
There is nothing acceptable about being obese.5 -
youcantflexcardio wrote: »Against.
I've been everything from borderline underweight to overweight to fit to obese to fit/strong but still slightly overweight (currently)
There is nothing acceptable about being obese.
it's not just about being obese 8
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