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Body Positive Movement - For or against?
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I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
This sums up the absurd notion of privilege. An embodiment of envy.2 -
Here's an interesting historical take on how being overweight was a display of status and 'privilege':
https://www.sermo.com/history-obesity-renaissance-1910/
"The first post in this 3 part series on the history of obesity discussed the view of obesity from the Stone Age to the Renaissance, when fatness or obesity was viewed as beautiful, healthy, and a sign of prosperity. This post discusses a global view of obesity from the renaissance to 1910.
Obesity remained a symbol of beauty worldwide. There were famines during these centuries. The Irish famine is one of the most famous. (A) People died without sufficient food during this and other famines. Prosperity meant having enough money to buy or own food, and to eat well. The wealthy ate in excess, assuring themselves status and “good health.” Throughout the world, those who were leaders or rulers tended to have more fat on their bodies and withstood the famines more easily."
To me it means accepting people as they are, not discriminating or 'fat shaming' people. What people must understand and accept however is that they are 100% responsible for their life choices and how they treat their bodies. Choosing to be overweight is choosing to be unhealthy and in a lot of cases unhappy. That's not the fault of people who have chosen differently and it's not a 'privilege' either.
That said I know it's not as simple as healthy food is expensive and there's the whole issue of comfort eating as a drug.
In the UK we have state run healthcare so if there was a 'body positive' movement here it would be an issue.2 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
Think that is meant for @Dolly989Me and my friend were messing around in a jacuzzi in our bikinis on vacation and had it up on our stories on instagram. We got so much hate off people saying stuff like "she loves herself" "get some clothes on" ect. Yet the last few months all over social media I've been seeing bigger women posting pictures posing in underwear/bikinis with long captions about body positivity and self love. These women were being praised while I was being teared down just because we are some peoples standard of beauty dosn't mean we don't have insecurites. I have things I don't like about myself but there I was trying to love myself and my body but that wasn't allowed. The people who were giving us hate would be the same type of people who'd post about body positivity.
It was your post.
I am talking about what is actually meant by body positivity to those of us on the thread. It is of course possible that random people on social media could behave in a hypocritical fashion, but I'd call them on it there, if this actually happened, and not use it -- as you did -- as a reason to claim that body positivity is about people feeling unhappy about themselves and resenting others.1 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
This sums up the absurd notion of privilege. An embodiment of envy.
I said nothing about privilege.3 -
Here's an interesting historical take on how being overweight was a display of status and 'privilege':
https://www.sermo.com/history-obesity-renaissance-1910/
"The first post in this 3 part series on the history of obesity discussed the view of obesity from the Stone Age to the Renaissance, when fatness or obesity was viewed as beautiful, healthy, and a sign of prosperity. This post discusses a global view of obesity from the renaissance to 1910.
Obesity remained a symbol of beauty worldwide. There were famines during these centuries. The Irish famine is one of the most famous. (A) People died without sufficient food during this and other famines. Prosperity meant having enough money to buy or own food, and to eat well. The wealthy ate in excess, assuring themselves status and “good health.” Throughout the world, those who were leaders or rulers tended to have more fat on their bodies and withstood the famines more easily."
To me it means accepting people as they are, not discriminating or 'fat shaming' people. What people must understand and accept however is that they are 100% responsible for their life choices and how they treat their bodies. Choosing to be overweight is choosing to be unhealthy and in a lot of cases unhappy. That's not the fault of people who have chosen differently and it's not a 'privilege' either.
That said I know it's not as simple as healthy food is expensive and there's the whole issue of comfort eating as a drug.
In the UK we have state run healthcare so if there was a 'body positive' movement here it would be an issue.
Personally, I'd like to know what the person who posted the comment meant.
However, you continue to post as if "body positivity" meant choosing to be obese, which it does not.
The time I most needed body positivity was when I was in high school through my mid 20s, all times at which I was normal weight, btw. And as I mentioned earlier, when I was fat, moving to a place of more self-acceptance and body positivity, and focusing on what I had control over (even though I did not yet fully accept I had control over my body) and what my body could do helped me arrive at a place where I could lose weight and become very fit (and I decided I'd be as fit as possible no matter my weight -- I of course did lose, but focusing on something other than the number on the scale was important for me).
There are a lot of very fit women who focus on body positivity. Here's one example: https://www.self.com/story/this-womans-bikini-photo-is-going-viral-for-a-reason-you-might-not-expect
https://www.girlsgonestrong.com/blog/ggs-spotlight/molly-galbraiths-spotlight-a-womans-worth/5 -
Here's an interesting historical take on how being overweight was a display of status and 'privilege':
https://www.sermo.com/history-obesity-renaissance-1910/
"The first post in this 3 part series on the history of obesity discussed the view of obesity from the Stone Age to the Renaissance, when fatness or obesity was viewed as beautiful, healthy, and a sign of prosperity. This post discusses a global view of obesity from the renaissance to 1910.
Obesity remained a symbol of beauty worldwide. There were famines during these centuries. The Irish famine is one of the most famous. (A) People died without sufficient food during this and other famines. Prosperity meant having enough money to buy or own food, and to eat well. The wealthy ate in excess, assuring themselves status and “good health.” Throughout the world, those who were leaders or rulers tended to have more fat on their bodies and withstood the famines more easily."
To me it means accepting people as they are, not discriminating or 'fat shaming' people. What people must understand and accept however is that they are 100% responsible for their life choices and how they treat their bodies. Choosing to be overweight is choosing to be unhealthy and in a lot of cases unhappy. That's not the fault of people who have chosen differently and it's not a 'privilege' either.
That said I know it's not as simple as healthy food is expensive and there's the whole issue of comfort eating as a drug.
In the UK we have state run healthcare so if there was a 'body positive' movement here it would be an issue.
If you think there isn't a body positivity "movement" in the UK then I can assure you that you're wrong. Here are some links:
https://www.berealcampaign.co.uk/
https://twitter.com/bbcbodypositive?lang=en
But then again, you're also falling into the trap of thinking that body positivity is only about weight. It isn't.4 -
Against.
I've been everything from borderline underweight to overweight to fit to obese to fit/strong but still slightly overweight (currently)
There is nothing acceptable about being obese.5 -
youcantflexcardio wrote: »Against.
I've been everything from borderline underweight to overweight to fit to obese to fit/strong but still slightly overweight (currently)
There is nothing acceptable about being obese.
it's not just about being obese 8 -
youcantflexcardio wrote: »Against.
I've been everything from borderline underweight to overweight to fit to obese to fit/strong but still slightly overweight (currently)
There is nothing acceptable about being obese. it's not just about being obese
Sorry. That came across as harsh. I believe it though...and I believed it when I was 300lbs. It was not ok to me.
The kind of body positivity that I do believe is ok is that not everyone has to look shredded/model perfect. Or people who've lost weight/mums with kids...they shouldn't be ashamed of a bit of stretch marks or loose skin. THAT is body positivity. It should be encouraged.
But the person shoving a big mac in thier face 100lbs overweight claiming they have "fat genetics" and they get winded walking up a flight of stairs...positively encouraging that person not to change is not cool at all.
EDIT: @mbaker566 I think I confused body positivity with fat acceptance...my bad.
Body positivity- good
Fat acceptance- garbage5 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
This sums up the absurd notion of privilege. An embodiment of envy.
I couldn't disagree more. It sounds like you have a very poor understanding of what most, if not many, people mean when they're talking about privilege. Looking at sociology texts on the subject might be one good place to start for you that gets away from "laymen" discussing it (despite the fact that everyone who I know that talks about privilege in the "power and privilege" sort of context is using the academic meaning). Gender studies and ethic studies texts would be other good places to find overviews).5 -
Watching what you eat and working out is not a privilege,
they are a privilege. sometimes, you have little choice in what you eat. availability, finances, budget, non1st world problems. sometimes, you work 2-3 jobs, have kids or family obligations, long commutes.
when you are struggling to get by or survive, all of it becomes much more fuzzy.
Choosing to not overeat and become obese is not a privilege. being able to afford a gym could be seen as a privilege but anyone with an internet connection can get on Youtube and learn how to get and stay in shape without any equipment.
Becoming overweight is is the result of having too much food - now that's privilege.
Self medicating with fatty and sugary foods due to an unprivileged life situation is a different animal.
I think anyone with an internet connection can get online and look up the term food dessert. When you live somewhere where you don't have a car and the places selling food don't have reliable produce, eating in a satisfying way is a privilege. That this is news to you is a sign of your privilege.10 -
ftr, an internet connection, and something to receive it, is a privilege9
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I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
This sums up the absurd notion of privilege. An embodiment of envy.
I couldn't disagree more. It sounds like you have a very poor understanding of what most, if not many, people mean when they're talking about privilege. Looking at sociology texts on the subject might be one good place to start for you that gets away from "laymen" discussing it (despite the fact that everyone who I know that talks about privilege in the "power and privilege" sort of context is using the academic meaning). Gender studies and ethic studies texts would be other good places to find overviews).
I understand what it means and what it's attempting to produce. What's piteous is that the theory and underlying concept, if realized to it's logical endpoint - results in individualism. So either proponents haven't realized this yet, or more insidiously, using this to gain power.
It is entirely regressive as is all post-modernist thought.3 -
I understand what it means and what it's attempting to produce. What's piteous is that the theory and underlying concept, if realized to it's logical endpoint - results in individualism. So either proponents haven't realized this yet, or more insidiously, using this to gain power.
It is entirely regressive as is all post-modernist thought.
it does my heart good to see that there are still a few people left in this day and age with some common sense
I couldn't disagree more. It sounds like you have a very poor understanding of what most, if not many, people mean when they're talking about privilege. Looking at sociology texts on the subject might be one good place to start for you that gets away from "laymen" discussing it (despite the fact that everyone who I know that talks about privilege in the "power and privilege" sort of context is using the academic meaning). Gender studies and ethic studies texts would be other good places to find overviews).
I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more with you in the idea that "most or not many" people who use the term privilege in social media and in common usage are defining it the same way that it is defined in academic settings. In common use the term is very much being used by one group of people to marginalize, ostracize, and criticize another person or group of people with whom they take issue with. I see it used all the time as an underhanded way of attempting to appear as the injured party while attacking another, boxing them within stereotypes, and attempting to shame them for things that frankly they had no more control over than the group that feels underprivileged.
Throwing around the term "privilege" in the context as it is used commonly today does nothing for increasing understanding, tolerance, or acceptance and instead promotes bigotry, envy, and segregation.5 -
youcantflexcardio wrote: »But the person shoving a big mac in thier face 100lbs overweight claiming they have "fat genetics" and they get winded walking up a flight of stairs...positively encouraging that person not to change is not cool at all.
Sigh. I don't understand what this has to do with the conversation at all, and it's a stereotype anyway (and the choice of words in interesting "shoving in their face."
Personally, I'm way more likely to eat high cal food in public or "pig out" around others now that I'm not overweight, since when I was overweight I was super conscious that people were likely judging what I ate. And I didn't eat Big Macs or fast food anyway, not my thing. That said, clearly I was overweight because I was eating too much for my activity level, and I had some awareness of that, although I also felt out of control until I started losing.
But in any case, none of this has much to do with the thread topic.
What I find interesting is your comment that "positively encouraging that person not to change is not cool." Once again, you appear to not be reading any of the thread before posting, and not to understand what body positivity is. It's not about encouraging people to stay fat, and it's not limited to overweight people in the first place.EDIT: @mbaker566 I think I confused body positivity with fat acceptance...my bad.
Body positivity- good
Fat acceptance- garbage
"Fat acceptance" is a broad group of things that IMO encompasses body positivity, but sometimes is taken to mean things I wouldn't agree with. But WITHIN fat acceptance is something I think is important for many -- the idea that you don't have to hate yourself or think you lack worth as a person because you are fat (and indeed should not). As I mentioned above (again), being able to see myself as a person with worth, despite being overweight, is what allowed me to regain a feeling of control and do the things that helped me lose the weight.
Also what helped me was focusing on the things I felt most control over -- what and how much I ate, my exercise, being active generally. I was not convinced that would work to cause weight loss (it did, of course), but I took as my goal to be as fit and healthy as possible whatever my weight ended up being. That focus on the things I could most easily control was a far more effective way for me to lose than making it all about the need to get the weight off (and also led me to employ a very healthy weight loss plan, no crazy fad or starvation diet out of self hatred or self punishment).
If people say being obese is not a health risk or judge others for losing weight or say weight loss is impossible, I think that's not cool, but that's not what we are talking about (or all that even "health at any size" or "fat acceptance" means to me.
I'd also say that if you see a random fat woman or man eating a Big Mac, you don't actually know how much they'd eaten that day or if they've already lost 50 lbs and are continuing to lose successfully or if it's their once a week fast food meal that they've incorporated into a weight loss plan. So feeling the need to look at them in a judging way is not all that admirable, IMO.7 -
ftr, an internet connection, and something to receive it, is a privilege
Libraries do provide these. Around here it's common for poorer people to use the library for that purpose.
I'm sure there are places where libraries are less accessible, however (I just think noting that this is one of the great services libraries provide is worthwhile).3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »
I understand what it means and what it's attempting to produce. What's piteous is that the theory and underlying concept, if realized to it's logical endpoint - results in individualism. So either proponents haven't realized this yet, or more insidiously, using this to gain power.
It is entirely regressive as is all post-modernist thought.
it does my heart good to see that there are still a few people left in this day and age with some common senseI couldn't disagree more. It sounds like you have a very poor understanding of what most, if not many, people mean when they're talking about privilege. Looking at sociology texts on the subject might be one good place to start for you that gets away from "laymen" discussing it (despite the fact that everyone who I know that talks about privilege in the "power and privilege" sort of context is using the academic meaning). Gender studies and ethic studies texts would be other good places to find overviews).
I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more with you in the idea that "most or not many" people who use the term privilege in social media and in common usage are defining it the same way that it is defined in academic settings. In common use the term is very much being used by one group of people to marginalize, ostracize, and criticize another person or group of people with whom they take issue with. I see it used all the time as an underhanded way of attempting to appear as the injured party while attacking another, boxing them within stereotypes, and attempting to shame them for things that frankly they had no more control over than the group that feels underprivileged.
Throwing around the term "privilege" in the context as it is used commonly today does nothing for increasing understanding, tolerance, or acceptance and instead promotes bigotry, envy, and segregation.
I'm willing to concede that there are people who are using the word privilege in ways that aren't the ones that I alluded to. However, that paired with your above "it does my heart good to see that there are still a few people left in this day and age with some common sense" makes me think that you actually just don't like and/or don't agree with the concept behind the academic usage either.4 -
I believe people can do what they want with their bodies and life choices. But if you're not happy with your body and life choices it's not the problem of people who have made different life choices....
imagine if I started attacking people on social media who were posting up pics of them enjoying a drink at a party - because I cant...
I don't believe anyone has suggested doing this or spoken approvingly of such behavior. To me, such things would be the antithesis of body positivity. So it seems like a strawman.
IME, accepting yourself despite the imperfections of your body and past eating/exercise choices and NOT feeling shame and self-hatred and out of control, but instead realizing "I can do this" and wanting to do it as a positive thing for yourself was basically tied up with body positivity and what allowed me to make positive changes (in my head I said they were good and worth it whether or not I lost weight) and, indeed, to lose weight.
The idea that most fat people are sitting around attacking people on social media for being thin is perhaps a fun thing for you to think about, but I don't think it's reality. Plus, people who attack others based on envy are more likely to be suffering from self-hatred than to have a real attitude of positivity.
This sums up the absurd notion of privilege. An embodiment of envy.
I couldn't disagree more. It sounds like you have a very poor understanding of what most, if not many, people mean when they're talking about privilege. Looking at sociology texts on the subject might be one good place to start for you that gets away from "laymen" discussing it (despite the fact that everyone who I know that talks about privilege in the "power and privilege" sort of context is using the academic meaning). Gender studies and ethic studies texts would be other good places to find overviews).
I understand what it means and what it's attempting to produce. What's piteous is that the theory and underlying concept, if realized to it's logical endpoint - results in individualism. So either proponents haven't realized this yet, or more insidiously, using this to gain power.
It is entirely regressive as is all post-modernist thought.
What are your thoughts on equality and the lack of equality in many areas of society (salaries, education, policing, etc)?1
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