Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations
Replies
-
Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.
Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.
Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.
Precisely.
The cost savings is substantial and one could use the funds to invest into anything else and get a better rate of return.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.
Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.
Precisely.
The cost savings is substantial and one could use the funds to invest into anything else and get a better rate of return.
I'm glad to hear that - gives me more reason for why I chose to stick with the term instead of pushing for whole life. My aunt works for State Farm and said earlier this year that I ought to have whole life but I never really saw the benefit. I once had a whole life policy through modern woodmen, but when I changed agents when I moved out on my own and she looked at the policy, she told me that the way it was set up, it was actually going to be losing money over time and not making it.
I think I'd rather continue to use the difference to sock into my 401k.
Course, I'm single with no dependents, so all I really need is enough to close out my estate and bury me. I'm sure its a different thing all together if you have family you'll be leaving behind.
In any case, my post was just to say that I understand what the person above was talking about in saying that because of their weight, they were paying a higher rate or being denied coverage - I've experienced the same.2 -
Obesity is "normal" in our present society due to the very large number of people who present as obese. However, there needs to be a happy medium between glamorizing and calling it a moral failure, unattractive, gross, etc. Yet, I have so much freedom at the gym as a 240# woman - no unwanted attention or stares - I contrast this with my size 0 daughter who feels the need to work out before 6 AM to avoid the "creepers" staring at her behind. Hey, I know, let's stop objectifying bodies & sizes, period.8
-
I think there should be a balance between being kind to people and also not spreadin BS when it comes to health and fitness.
If you are 60-100lbs over weight you are not healthy, period. You simply may not have had it catch up to you yet but very few people that are 60+ over weight have zero health related issues. Also, statistics show that when you are obese you don't live as long. I think this "healthy at any size" crap is detrimental, it's simply not correct and could be having a negative impact on society.18 -
This content has been removed.
-
I think you can be body positive without idolising fat. I saw a documentary where some of the people on it idolised fat and were in denial about how being overweight effected their health.
I am body positive but I want to lose weight because I want to be healthy and live a long healthy life6 -
For the I don't even know how many'th time, body positivity is about so much more than weight.
I grew up as a black child in predominantly white schools and was made fun of because of various facial and other bodily features, none of which were about weight (I was thin until my early 20s and muscular as a teenager). My lips, my nose, my hair, my skin, etc. You know what I could have used a large dose of? Body positivity. There's a recent episode of the NPR show Code Switch that talks about this in more depth.15 -
I consider myself to have a fairly healthy body image in that I understand that I'm fat. And under the fat is not a 5'11" B cup model. What's under the fat (Based on family members of various sizes and ages) is the sort of body guys liked to paint on airplanes. Even when we lose weight, we have a lot of T & A. We're muscular, not sleek. And I'm good with this, because I like being strong and powerful.
BUT. I don't want to be 100 pounds over weight. And I don't want to have all this hanging skin on my front (courtesy of three large babies). I can love the fact that I'm a powerful curved brick house of a woman, while disliking the excess and wanting to not have to dress like I'm six months pregnant due to all the loose skin.
The problem I see with the social disapproval issue is that if you smoke and you don't like the social disapproval, you can stop today. Wash your clothes, and no one in public will know that you smoked, the day after you quit. It will take me most of a year before people see me as somewhere closer to acceptable size, and I guarantee because of my build, even when I get my body to where I want it, people will think I should still lose 15 pounds.
7 -
Sometimes it really is food addiction.
My ex had a mother who was a real piece of work. She told him what a pig he was as she gave him a serving of his favorite foods. She never said she loved him, just baked him a cake. Yeah, he grew up with a really messed up attitude toward food. He was obese his whole life. That, combined with 20 years of smoking, got him a heart attack at 51. Due to the lung damage, he was on a respirator and tube fed for three and a half months. He lost 150 pounds. He had about another hundred to go; then, with an abdominoplasty, he would have been normal weight and looked like everyone else. I don't know anyone with obesity issues who wouldn't trade three months of sleeping through life to lose 150 pounds! What a gift! Over halfway there already! And I was willing to cook him whatever diet he wanted to go on to keep it off.
In six months he put it all back on and an extra fifty pounds for good measure. He refused to eat better. Instead, he had second breakfasts, and heavy lunches, and dinners, and a midnight supper, and didn't move much. Now he has emphysema and congestive heart failure, and is diabetic. It broke my heart to watch this, but you can't make someone want to break their addiction, you just have to wait until they do.
I couldn't hang on that long. We're now divorced. And now that I'm not around his addiction, I can work on my own weight issues. (He wouldn't let me diet either.) I don't think he can ever break that addiction. And that's a pity. But social disapproval never moved him. Addicts don't care about that. Or, at least, they care until they find out the restaurant offers not only french fries, but cheese sauce and bacon to top them.14 -
I think it's been said several times on this thread and throughout MFP that outwardly shaming someone's body will only create further isolation and mental unwellness, hindering change. It's better to understand why that person is obese, rather than just being a jerk from afar.
A little over a year ago I was diagnosed with MDD (depression). My doctor determined it was more internalized, meaning it's more of a chemical imbalance than something external (like a traumatic event) causing the depression. They placed me on SSRIs for the longterm. The meds have worked tremendously for my mental health, but a side-effect was that I gained over 20lbs. The drugs both create a sweet tooth that's hard to ignore, plus you just seem to ... gain weight. I'm a bit of a gym-addict, so it wasn't as bad as some others in my situation, but you can see how a person's experience can create a situation that makes weight gain hard to avoid. My doctor didn't seem concerned that I gained weight, but was more concerned that the weight would cause me to stop taking the SSRIs.
At one point last year I felt a bit low about my body ... it was summer, and I didn't feel like socializing with friends at the beach because I didnt have a beach body. Isolation creates worse mental health, and worsens physical health. I also started thinking ... A bathing suit is active wear after all, and so anyone shaming a person for wearing a bathing suit cannot say they support healthy habits, because they are LITERALLY preventing someone from wearing active wear. Anyway, I went to the beach with my friends in the end.
My end point is that I believe body positivity helps more people feel comfortable to go out and engage with the world in the body they're in. In my own experience it helps counter isolation and can prevent habits that create poor health.11 -
I think what needs to be encouraged and high-lighted in society is loving yourself NO MATTER what size you are. Life is a precious gift, and it needs to be cherished and respected. Care should be given to our bodies, but this obsession with body image is unhealthy. Should we strive for health? Yes!!! does this look the same for everyone?? No!! Stop judging everyone else and focus on your own happiness and gift of life. ✨💪🏻✨
My perspective.
I hope it resonates with others!11 -
There is something or some things we are not doing right if we have the time and energy to promote glamourising being the victim. We are playing at the hands of big pharma, food industries.
We know those models of body positivity are a cry for help, but after you wipe the tears and talk about your hardships in your journey, isn’t the next step to try and be healthy again?3 -
There is something or some things we are not doing right if we have the time and energy to promote glamourising being the victim. We are playing at the hands of big pharma, food industries.
We know those models of body positivity are a cry for help, but after you wipe the tears and talk about your hardships in your journey, isn’t the next step to try and be healthy again?
I don't think the food industry really has an interest in normalizing obesity. I think they are actually better served by the guilt eating that can come from feelings of shame at being overweight or obese.7 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »There is something or some things we are not doing right if we have the time and energy to promote glamourising being the victim. We are playing at the hands of big pharma, food industries.
We know those models of body positivity are a cry for help, but after you wipe the tears and talk about your hardships in your journey, isn’t the next step to try and be healthy again?
I don't think the food industry really has an interest in normalizing obesity. I think they are actually better served by the guilt eating that can come from feelings of shame at being overweight or obese.
Yeah, the cultural obsession with eating the "right" things actually works in their favor (IMO), as they can sell more organic stuff, more "superfoods," more foods that supposedly help with weight loss. If I designed a model food consumer and I had no ethical qualms, I wouldn't want someone who was happy with their weight. I'd want someone who swung between cycles of food "virtue" (indicated by purchases of fancy acai packets and chia seed granola and weight loss shakes and etc) and giving up and eating excessive amounts due to the negative energy of restriction and then swinging back into "virtue" and buying a bunch of cauliflower pizza and whatever else I'm dreaming up.
Keeping people on that cycle is a fast track to profit.9 -
theleadmare wrote: »Sometimes it really is food addiction.
My ex had a mother who was a real piece of work. She told him what a pig he was as she gave him a serving of his favorite foods. She never said she loved him, just baked him a cake. Yeah, he grew up with a really messed up attitude toward food. He was obese his whole life. That, combined with 20 years of smoking, got him a heart attack at 51. Due to the lung damage, he was on a respirator and tube fed for three and a half months. He lost 150 pounds. He had about another hundred to go; then, with an abdominoplasty, he would have been normal weight and looked like everyone else. I don't know anyone with obesity issues who wouldn't trade three months of sleeping through life to lose 150 pounds! What a gift! Over halfway there already! And I was willing to cook him whatever diet he wanted to go on to keep it off.
In six months he put it all back on and an extra fifty pounds for good measure. He refused to eat better. Instead, he had second breakfasts, and heavy lunches, and dinners, and a midnight supper, and didn't move much. Now he has emphysema and congestive heart failure, and is diabetic. It broke my heart to watch this, but you can't make someone want to break their addiction, you just have to wait until they do.
I couldn't hang on that long. We're now divorced. And now that I'm not around his addiction, I can work on my own weight issues. (He wouldn't let me diet either.) I don't think he can ever break that addiction. And that's a pity. But social disapproval never moved him. Addicts don't care about that. Or, at least, they care until they find out the restaurant offers not only french fries, but cheese sauce and bacon to top them.
@theleadmare breaking food addictions is hard but I was age 63 before I realized I was an addict in October 2014. It was a hellish 2 weeks when cold turkey I stopped eating and drinking any food that contained any added sweeteners or any form of any grain.
Thankfully 30 days later I was able to say No to starting Enbrel injections for pain management.
I'm still Rx med free in 2020 with better health and health markers than decades ago.
Our son and daughter are now 22. I didn't want them to have to watch me die thinking that may be their future as well.
I had a friend that got too heavy to manage at home near the end and I didn't wish that on my wife.
We can only control our own Way Of Eat and best of success in finding the WOE that works best for you today.5 -
NorthCascades wrote: »The diet industry is pretty big, multibillion-dollar. I've never seen ads for products that promise to make you fat, there are thousands of products and services promising to make people skinny. If society really was glamorizing obesity, everybody would want to become obese like the glamourous people.
I'm not really adding anything useful here. I just read this and remembered an old advert I once saw:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vintage-weight-gain-ads_n_1119044
Or what claims to be an old advert anyway.0 -
I don't think people should be belittled because of it but they also shouldn't be told it's ok. I feel "body positivity" should be valuing yourself enough that you take care of yourself. Theres nothing positive about sticking your head in the sand about being obese.
As far as seats to accommodate larger people, sure, but it should cost more. It costs more to move them and the people that fit in normal seats shouldn't have to pay for it either literally or by losing space themselves. I've been on flights many times where my neighbor is spilling into the space I paid for. I'm not going to shame them for it but how is it fair that I have to lean over for a 3 hour flight and walk off with a sore back because you can't take control of your size or buy a first class seat?6 -
nitalieben wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »The diet industry is pretty big, multibillion-dollar. I've never seen ads for products that promise to make you fat, there are thousands of products and services promising to make people skinny. If society really was glamorizing obesity, everybody would want to become obese like the glamourous people.
I'm not really adding anything useful here. I just read this and remembered an old advert I once saw:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vintage-weight-gain-ads_n_1119044
Or what claims to be an old advert anyway.
Real ads. (I'm almost that old, b. 1955 - old enough to have seen those ads in real life but I can't remember whether in current publications of my childhood, or older ones that would've been old but not yet then quaintly antique).
Keep in mind that the period of time mentioned (1920s-50s) included difficult times for a lot of people: Depression, wartime rationing, etc. So, truly skinny was an indicator of poverty or deprivation, maybe non-robust health. Also, if you look at the ads targeting women, it's obvious that part of what they're talking about is breasts . . . from a time when ads didn't really quite as much talk about breast enhancement explicitly. (For much of my childhood, menstrual products were marketed in ways that didn't give much clue what they were for, which is kind of hilarious. Breast enhancement would've been something that would be more discreetly alluded to, also, generally.)
ETA: Even today, there are "hard gainers", people who find it difficult to gain weight but want to do so. (There's a forum area here where you can see some of those posts.) There are products marketed to that segment, even today. But - as NorthCascades says - it isn't mass-marketed for *everyone* now . . . nor was it mass-marketed to all back in the era you were talking about, even though average body weight was quite a bit lower. It was more an "ads in the back of magazines" low-key thing.2 -
And on a personal note: when I finally made the changes in my life to eat better and get fit (and was no longer obese as a result) - it was because I LOVED myself exactly as I was and wanted to give myself the best first and foremost. No amount of fat shaming could have gotten me there.
This rings so true for me too.
2 -
East Asian countries have a real culture of fat shaming, yet obesity rates are very low. I don't agree with the premise that fat shaming leads to more obesity problem.6
-
Most of my family is overweight or obese and I have personally seen the devastation it's causing. I weigh 219 pounds and I'm the "skinny" guy in the family. That's how bad it is. I'm focusing on a normal weight for my height to waist ratio and I'm still about 30 to 40 pounds from my goal. It's become so normalized we are coming up with terms such as "healthy", "husky", "big-boned", "chubby", "curvy". All in the effort to normalize fat.2
-
I think shaming fat people does not help them. I think bullying is not okay no matter who you're bullying.
I dont think fat should be 'glamorized' anymore than I think smoking cigarettes, or any unhealthy habit, should be glamorized. But the person shouldn't be shamed, either.
I dont see making plane seats accommodating for fat people as 'glamorization'. And yes, I think doctors should still let people know about the health problems that obesity can cause. We shouldn't start lying to people.
However, I think we dont have to choose between being kind or being truthful.. I think it's very possible to do both. You can let someone know you're worried about their health regarding their weight (but they probably already know) while still showing love and gentleness and treating them like a valuable human and not a piece a trash you're disgusted by.
I believe strongly that everyone is created and loved by God so I personally believe all bodies are beautiful in that sense. and I dont think being cruel or ostracizing fat people, or any people, is right, because It's very miserable to feel like everyone thinks you're ugly and is judging you.
(sorry this was so long lol, sometimes I get too passionate when replying..)7 -
I think what needs to be encouraged and high-lighted in society is loving yourself NO MATTER what size you are. Life is a precious gift, and it needs to be cherished and respected. Care should be given to our bodies, but this obsession with body image is unhealthy. Should we strive for health? Yes!!! does this look the same for everyone?? No!! Stop judging everyone else and focus on your own happiness and gift of life. ✨💪🏻✨
My perspective.
I hope it resonates with others!
I agree, that was really well put
have a great day!
0 -
I guess it all comes down to how you define "fat shaming." I've seen people who I can only describe as "fat activists" refer to anything associating overweight/obesity with negative health outcomes as fat shaming. There are more than a few people out there who will accuse you of bullying even if you're just pointing out widely accepted medical opinion.7
-
Adults that think it is their job to comment about other adults in a negative way creates more stress. Emotional abusers are are not required since most of us have mirrors.7
-
Most of my family is overweight or obese and I have personally seen the devastation it's causing. I weigh 219 pounds and I'm the "skinny" guy in the family. That's how bad it is. I'm focusing on a normal weight for my height to waist ratio and I'm still about 30 to 40 pounds from my goal. It's become so normalized we are coming up with terms such as "healthy", "husky", "big-boned", "chubby", "curvy". All in the effort to normalize fat.
Best of luck on your journey.
To be honest the terms have been around for years. I remember back in college I worked a part time job at a mall. The store across the way from my place was Catherine's Stout Shop.
Nobody was kidding anyone regarding the target market.2 -
when i see a person who is over weight i immediately see them as being weak willed and lazy even though i know thats not always the case. no one would choose to be heavy when it is socially unattractive and doesn't feel well. while i was never obese i was heavy enough to be sporting a double chin and i disliked everything about it. i dont think everyone needs to have a beach body but i do believe people need to strive for a healthy bmi4
-
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions